[1.8+] Real Fuels

[A_Burnt_Rodent]

This update contains TweakScale_Realfuels.dll in a folder called TweakScaleInteraction. What, if anything, should be done with the Tweakscale_RealFuels.dll in the plugins folder of the TweakScale 1.4.3 download? Also the MM dll supplied is 2.4.5, I assume this is a dev release.

[Northstar1989]

Note the note, and make sure you nuke your old RF folder first, as the OP says. Files *were* removed.

Wait, so this update will break all my existing craft using RealFuel tanks?

Also, NathanKell, are you aware that a number of the stock parts still are not RealFuels compatible? Specifically, I am referring to the radial engine body parts, the radial monopropellent engine, and I think one or two other parts... Would this be something that needs to be fixed with the main mod (perhaps a conflict with one of the modules on the new radial engine bodies, for instance), or in the Stockalike config?

Regards,

Northstar

[NathanKell]

A_Burnt_Rodent: you can remove it, yes. If you leave it, it will gracefully fail to load. And I pulled MM 2.4.5 from the main trunk, but I think Sarbian may not have updated the OP.

Northstar1989: This is perfectly compatible with saved craft. Saved craft don't generally get put in the RealFuels folder in GameData.

RealFuels does not include any engine configs at all. See the second post in this thread for where to get engine configs. If there are parts that contain *fuel* that RF doesn't edit, please mention them.

[A_Burnt_Rodent]

Ok, thanks.

[Starwaster]

Nathan, minor quibbling point re: LANTR on the front page. Technically it doesn't inject the LOX into the reactor; that would destroy the fuel rods. It gets injected into the exhaust stream, in the nozzle. (A nuclear afterburner as it were)

[NathanKell]

Thanks, that's quite a howler. Fixed.

[Northstar1989]

If there are parts that contain *fuel* that RF doesn't edit, please mention them.

The stock radial engine bodies. You know, the ones that act as both intakes and fuel tanks, and were added in 0.24

The currently only carry "LiquidFuel", and are not edited by RealFuels

Regards,

Northstar

[undercoveryankee]

The stock radial engine bodies. You know, the ones that act as both intakes and fuel tanks, and were added in 0.24

The currently only carry "LiquidFuel", and are not edited by RealFuels

Regards,

Northstar

Well, the parts themselves are old C7 models that have been around forever. They had fuel added to them in 0.24.

[NathanKell]

Ah, missed those then. I'll add tanks for them.

[NathanKell]

So with RCS.. The only option is to send fuel lines to each engine or attatch them directly to an rcs tank? I'm finding this very problematic with smaller designs. Right now this particular launch vehicle I'm working on is very small and the second stage needs help with attitude. But I cannot for the life of me tuck tanks, ports and fuel lines under this tiny .72m stage. I have good rcs ports that fit and small tanks, but I can't feed them. Despite the ports and tanks being right next to eachother they will not feed fuel. And the fuel lines are twice the size of the rcs ports and do not attatch to any of my rcs tanks. Any tips?

RCS fuel flows like any other fuel. If a radial engine mounted there would work, an RCS port would; if not, RCS won't either. You'll need to place RCS on parts that have crossflow (like girders or tanks or wings), not parts that don't (decouplers, structural panels).

[Motokid600]

Thanks for moving my question! I appreciate it. Sorry about that I usually google the name of the thread to find it and it sent me to the one in add-on development. I never even realized. And thank you again for that insight. I think I know now what I gotta do to make it work.

[NathanKell]

Awesome! Let us know if it doesn't.

[Starwaster]

RCS fuel flows like any other fuel. If a radial engine mounted there would work, an RCS port would; if not, RCS won't either. You'll need to place RCS on parts that have crossflow (like girders or tanks or wings), not parts that don't (decouplers, structural panels).

Or configure the RCS for Monoprop which still uses STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW and works across non crossfeed parts

Edit:

Having trouble with TweakScale and RealFuels working together. I've got this in the log:

AssemblyLoader: Exception loading 'TweakScale_ModularFuelTanks': System.Reflection.ReflectionTypeLoadException: The classes in the module cannot be loaded.

at (wrapper managed-to-native) System.Reflection.Assembly:GetTypes (bool)

at System.Reflection.Assembly.GetTypes () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.LoadAssemblies () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Additional information about this exception:

System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not load file or assembly 'modularFuelTanks, Version=5.1.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null' or one of its dependencies.

File name: 'modularFuelTanks, Version=5.1.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Non platform assembly: C:\Games\KSP_win_small\GameData\TweakScale\plugins\TweakScale_RealFuels.dll (this message is harmless)

AssemblyLoader: Exception loading 'TweakScale_RealFuels': System.Reflection.ReflectionTypeLoadException: The classes in the module cannot be loaded.

at (wrapper managed-to-native) System.Reflection.Assembly:GetTypes (bool)

at System.Reflection.Assembly.GetTypes () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.LoadAssemblies () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Additional information about this exception:

System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not load file or assembly 'RealFuels, Version=7.2.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null' or one of its dependencies.

File name: 'RealFuels, Version=7.2.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Non platform assembly: C:\Games\KSP_win_small\GameData\TweakScale\TweakScaleInteraction\TweakScale_RealFuels.dll (this message is harmless)

AssemblyLoader: Exception loading 'TweakScale_RealFuels': System.Reflection.ReflectionTypeLoadException: The classes in the module cannot be loaded.

at (wrapper managed-to-native) System.Reflection.Assembly:GetTypes (bool)

at System.Reflection.Assembly.GetTypes () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.LoadAssemblies () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Additional information about this exception:

System.TypeLoadException: Could not load type 'TweakScale_RealFuels.TweakScaleModularFuelTanksUpdater' from assembly 'TweakScale_RealFuels, Version=1.4.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'.

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Full log here:

This is a pretty bare bones install right now: Toolbar, ATM, RCSBuildAid, RealChute, RealFuels and TweakScale.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Starwaster

[p1t1o]

Or configure the RCS for Monoprop which still uses STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW and works across non crossfeed parts

Edit:

Having trouble with TweakScale and RealFuels working together. I've got this in the log:

AssemblyLoader: Exception loading 'TweakScale_ModularFuelTanks': System.Reflection.ReflectionTypeLoadException: The classes in the module cannot be loaded.

at (wrapper managed-to-native) System.Reflection.Assembly:GetTypes (bool)

at System.Reflection.Assembly.GetTypes () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.LoadAssemblies () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Additional information about this exception:

System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not load file or assembly 'modularFuelTanks, Version=5.1.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null' or one of its dependencies.

File name: 'modularFuelTanks, Version=5.1.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Non platform assembly: C:\Games\KSP_win_small\GameData\TweakScale\plugins\TweakScale_RealFuels.dll (this message is harmless)

AssemblyLoader: Exception loading 'TweakScale_RealFuels': System.Reflection.ReflectionTypeLoadException: The classes in the module cannot be loaded.

at (wrapper managed-to-native) System.Reflection.Assembly:GetTypes (bool)

at System.Reflection.Assembly.GetTypes () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.LoadAssemblies () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Additional information about this exception:

System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not load file or assembly 'RealFuels, Version=7.2.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null' or one of its dependencies.

File name: 'RealFuels, Version=7.2.1.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Non platform assembly: C:\Games\KSP_win_small\GameData\TweakScale\TweakScaleInteraction\TweakScale_RealFuels.dll (this message is harmless)

AssemblyLoader: Exception loading 'TweakScale_RealFuels': System.Reflection.ReflectionTypeLoadException: The classes in the module cannot be loaded.

at (wrapper managed-to-native) System.Reflection.Assembly:GetTypes (bool)

at System.Reflection.Assembly.GetTypes () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.LoadAssemblies () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Additional information about this exception:

System.TypeLoadException: Could not load type 'TweakScale_RealFuels.TweakScaleModularFuelTanksUpdater' from assembly 'TweakScale_RealFuels, Version=1.4.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'.

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Full log here:

This is a pretty bare bones install right now: Toolbar, ATM, RCSBuildAid, RealChute, RealFuels and TweakScale.

I think I have the same problem with tweakscale.

Also radial tanks dont seem to crossfeed their contents anymore? They're just dead weight.

(Both issues dissappear on reverting to previous version)

[Starwaster]

I think I have the same problem with tweakscale.

Also radial tanks dont seem to crossfeed their contents anymore? They're just dead weight.

(Both issues dissappear on reverting to previous version)

Re: TweakScale: Looks like it's because RealFuel was re-versioned. Previous versions were 7.2.1 and that's what the TweakScale_RealFuels.dll that's bundled with RF is looking for. It wants version 7.2.1 and instead it's finding 0.7.4

I recompiled TweakScale_RealFuels against the new version of Real Fuels and it works just fine for me: I'll make it available here temporarily: TweakScale Fix

If by radial tanks you mean the RCS tanks, they had their flow mode changed.

edit: let me revise that. It's not the tanks. It's the resources they contain. The tanks behave the way radially attached tanks have always behaved. But now RCS uses alternate fuels which use STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH instead of STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW like monoprop does. I suspect that's where you're having trouble?

Edited October 2, 2014 by Starwaster

[p1t1o]

If by radial tanks you mean the RCS tanks, they had their flow mode changed.

edit: let me revise that. It's not the tanks. It's the resources they contain. The tanks behave the way radially attached tanks have always behaved. But now RCS uses alternate fuels which use STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH instead of STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW like monoprop does. I suspect that's where you're having trouble?

Thanks for the tweakscale fix I'll try it now.

What I saw with RCS: was trying to use a hydrazine fuelled engine, stacked RCS tanks worked just fine, but any radial tanks added would not provide any fuel.

**edit**

Have just discovered that the hydrazine issue existed before the realfuels update (I had just never tried to use hydrazine before).

Radial RCS tanks seem to work with "monopropellant", ie: a radial RCS tank containing "monopropellant" can provide fuel to the monoprop engine under the main RCS tank. If the engine uses hydrazine, and the stack and radial tanks contain hydrazine, only the stack tank provides fuel, the radial is deadweight.

**edit#2**

Investigating further based on your clues, yes it is to do with the "STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH/FLOW" thing as you mentioned. Had no idea what those things were up to now, but as the stock monopropellant uses the FLOW version and most other things use the SEARCH one I figured it out. Have always used radial fuel tanks but that require fuel lines but have never caught on to this...

As most small radial tanks are small and not surface attachable (so far its just been easier to switch hydrazine to stack_priority_flow) this became an issue.

Edited October 2, 2014 by p1t1o

[Starwaster]

Thanks for the tweakscale fix I'll try it now.

What I saw with RCS: was trying to use a hydrazine fuelled engine, stacked RCS tanks worked just fine, but any radial tanks added would not provide any fuel.

Correct, because Hydrazine uses STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH which is thwarted by non-crossfeeding parts. Monopropellant however used to use ALL_VESSEL which just as it says can search and draw from the entire vessel. Currently (as of 0.23 I think) Monopropellant uses STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW which is basically the same thing except it will first search its current stage and only after it fails to find resources there will it cross no-crossfeed parts.

Btw, in spite of what I said earlier. tanks actually CAN override flow mode, but Real Fuels isn't designed to take advantage of that. I don't know how Nathan feels about this (maybe right now is how he wants it to work) but it would be possible to add a flow mode field to tank definitions, and if it's present, add it to that part's resources. What do you think Nathan, is that a direction you'd be interested in going?

[NathanKell]

Starwaster: Tweakscale includes dlls for MFT and RF that will fail gracefully with that exception when (not if) they find the wrong version of RF or MFT. However, I include a fresh dll, in another folder, that *does* offer good support. If you don't want to see those exceptions, delete the MFT/RF interaction plugins in TweakScale/Plugins (but leave the dlls in TweakScale/TweakScaleInteraction alone, which is where MFT/RF will put its own dlls)

p1t1o: Check the link in my signature to CrossFeedEnabler. It will enable crossfeed in situations where it should be but isn't (like radially attaching an RCS tank). It is entirely working as designed that fuel cannot magically teleport from a fuel tank to an RCS thruster; RCS fuels now merely obey the same rules that radial engines do (after all, that's what they are). You will need to place RCS thrusters in such a way that there is valid fuel crossfeed between the tank and the thruster; that means using girders (which apparently have magical fuel lines in them) rather than Ibeams.

[Starwaster]

Starwaster: Tweakscale includes dlls for MFT and RF that will fail gracefully with that exception when (not if) they find the wrong version of RF or MFT. However, I include a fresh dll, in another folder, that *does* offer good support. If you don't want to see those exceptions, delete the MFT/RF interaction plugins in TweakScale/Plugins (but leave the dlls in TweakScale/TweakScaleInteraction alone, which is where MFT/RF will put its own dlls)

The dll in TweakScale/TweakScaleInteraction was the one that wasn't loading. RealFuels tanks weren't updating their volume when tweak scaled.

i.e. it wasn't just a case of not wanting to see the exceptions. Look at the error, it's trying to find the previous version of RealFuels

[NathanKell]

Ok, now *that* is bloody confusing. I'll reupload a fixed archive.

EDIT: Apologies for doubting you, there was something messed up in my *own* tweakscale install. I believe it is now fixed, And RF's interaction recompiled, so redownload 7.4.

Edited October 2, 2014 by NathanKell

[ZaPPPa]

I tried Real Fuels (the very latest) on a fresh install because I had a lot of trouble getting it to run right with TweakScale. I noticed that it only scaled the fuel levels properly if I did the following:

- Add a fresh new fuel tank

- Fill it up with fuel at its default scale (by attaching an engine and clicking the fuel button)

- THEN scale it up/down

If I scale it when empty and then fill it up, the rescaled version will hold the amount of fuel of the default scale. This allows me to fill a 5m S3-7200 tank with 20M of fuel if I fill the tank at its smallest scale and then scale all the way up .

If this is intended or inevitable, then so be it, but I did not see anything about this in the first couple of posts and wanted to make sure this is not a bug.

Edited October 3, 2014 by ZaPPPa

[NathanKell]

Wow, that's a heck of a bug. Thanks!

I'll take a look and figure out what's going on.

[Starwaster]

Wow, a TARDIS bug!

[RedAV8R]

@NathanKell: From what I see.

#1: The TweakScale installation drops a TweakScale_RealFuels.dll into the plugins folder within the TweakScale folder

#2: The RealFuels installation drops a TweakScale_RealFuels.dll into a TweakScaleInteraction folder within the TweakScale folder

#3: Tested removing both TweakScale_RealFuels.dll and TweakScale_ModularFuelTanks.dll from original TweakScale installation. No change.

#4: Tested removing TweakScale_ModularFuelTanks.dll from TweakScale installation, replacing TweakScale original TweakScale_RealFuels.dll with one from RealFuels. No change.

#5: I can confirm post #1446.

The volume: Avail and Total do not change at all from original size, regardless of what is done.

The mass: Dry and Wet only change in response to fuel load based upon original tank volume.

If tank is resized then filled. Only filled to original volume and masses calculated as such.

If tank is filled then resized, volumes stays constant. Masses constant.

When filled then resized, actual volume of resource does change appropriately.

When resized then filled, actual volume of resource is the original volume.

LOG. Clean KSP install. TweakScale. RealFuel. RO (for engines). MM 2.3.5.

[NathanKell]

Thanks, that's a truly excellent report and helps a ton!

I'll try to get this fixed this evening, if not, tomorrow.