[1.8+] Real Fuels

[Kalista]

Output_log would be nice. Also, what other mods? Are you using an autopilot? FAR?

Disreguard it I had a major brain fart and forgot that I overstuffed my 6s pod and one part was just far enough over to cause some crazy part clipping torque. Feel free to take a rolled up newspaper to me for having a derp moment:( .

[ChronicSilence]

I seem to be having a problem with the stock engines. I have both RO and RSS installed, but RF doesn't seem to recognize the engines. When I click on them in the action editor, it doesn't bring up a tech level menu or any other stats. Any thoughts?

[AbeS]

Are you using Real Engines? Because it doesn't support stock engines yet

[ChronicSilence]

I wasn't aware that there was a "Real Engines" mod. I though I remembered the stock engines having tech levels back when I was using the "Modular Fuels System with RF".

[dlrk]

RealFuels prerelease 2 does support stock engines. Prerelease 3 does not. The RTFS engines are what you want for that.

[DasBananenbrot]

Prerelease? Real Fuels v4 is already released... But v4 don't includes an engince.cfg. So you need to download one but it is all written on the OP

[ChronicSilence]

Prerelease? Real Fuels v4 is already released... But v4 don't includes an engince.cfg. So you need to download one but it is all written on the OP

Yes, I saw that and I installed the Realism Overhaul v3pre3. It works for all the KWRocketry engines, but doesn't work for stock engines. I'm just confused because, as far as I remember, it USED to work for stock engines before Real Fuels was split off from the old MFS mod.

[jrandom]

Yes, I saw that and I installed the Realism Overhaul v3pre3. It works for all the KWRocketry engines, but doesn't work for stock engines. I'm just confused because, as far as I remember, it USED to work for stock engines before Real Fuels was split off from the old MFS mod.

Stock engines are no longer included with Realism Overhaul. I removed all non-stock engines from the old RtfSEngines.cfg file so I'd still have my nifty modified stock engines without having it conflict with RealEngines.

[NathanKell]

So here's the lowdown.

There are, right now, three sets of engine configs available for RF (which, as stated in OP, does not come with its own set of engine configs for chemical rocket engines; NTRs and B9 are supported out of the box). Each of these three is available in Post #2 of this thread.

*One is the "stockalike" set. This set is from MFS 3.3 (though J_Davis and Chestburster are currently reworking it to use all the new goodies in RF v4). This tries not to change thrust or mass from what you're used to. This supports the most engines. Also, so as not to change mass, it comes out of the box setting RF for non-realistic mass mode (aka KSP-style mass mode), where engines mass 3.2x what they would in the real world and tanks about 4x.

*One is the RealEngines set. This is by SFJackBauer, and it uses various models (from various parts packs) to represent real-world engines like the Merlin 1D, the SSME, the RS-27, Vulcain 2, RD-107, etc. Because Squad's engines don't look like real engines, they're not supported. RealEngines supports the least number of engines, but each one is lovingly set to be an exact 1:1 performance clone of a real engine, with as close a model as SFJackBauer could find or tweak.

*One is the Reaching for the Stars set by me. It's a set of realistic engine configs: that is, a set of configs that mimic real-world performance but where no particular engine is a 100% copy of a real-world engine. It's designed for the universe I describe in my Mission Reports series (in sig--sadly unupdated in some time). Because I'm not constrained by needing to duplicate the look of realworld engines, RftSEngines does support Squad engines and many others.

You can of course do what jrandom just described: use RealEngines, and then copy in any engine from RftSEngines that isn't modified by RealEngines. That takes some splicing though.

[ChronicSilence]

This makes way more sense. Regarding SFJackBauer's RealEngines, what do you mean when he say it uses "various models from various part packs"? Does that mean that the RealismOverhaul mod itself with his config (I think it's listed in the OP as "Realism Overhaul v3pre3") contains those engines/models? Or does that mean that if you install one of those "various mods", the relevant engine will be all nicely configured for real life?

On that point, do you think you might be able to expand in the OP a bit about which part mods are supported/suggested? You mention somewhere that it supports "all KATO engines" or something, but for someone like me who didn't start going for the "realism" until after you released your stuff, that doesn't mean much. Maybe a list of suggested part mods, with links to relevant threads?

Thanks!

[rottielover]

Hopefully a quick question... After reading the original post a couple times, I figured that I could take a stock mono tank, place stock RCS ports directly on it (like radial engines) and then use say, hydrazine, but that doesn't work. Is that a function of needing to add something to the engine configs for the RCS ports, or is there something else I'm missing?

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Hopefully a quick question... After reading the original post a couple times, I figured that I could take a stock mono tank, place stock RCS ports directly on it (like radial engines) and then use say, hydrazine, but that doesn't work. Is that a function of needing to add something to the engine configs for the RCS ports, or is there something else I'm missing?

Did you:

1: Switch the thrusters to hydrazine mode? (If they had them)

2: Go to the tank and make sure the tank was loaded with hydrazine?

I've noticed at least in this version, at least until they went in to fix the cfgs, that all my tanks start empty.

[ChronicSilence]

I have another question! I'm just full of them today. What is the difference between LiquidFuel and Kerosene? I thought they were supposed to be the same, but I have yet to find an engine (in KW Rocketry, Bobcat Soviet Engines, or Stock) that uses Kerosene. They all say LiquidFuel instead. However, the Real Fuels tanks are apparently capable of loading Kerosene.

So... what's the deal with that?

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

I have another question! I'm just full of them today. What is the difference between LiquidFuel and Kerosene? I thought they were supposed to be the same, but I have yet to find an engine (in KW Rocketry, Bobcat Soviet Engines, or Stock) that uses Kerosene. They all say LiquidFuel instead. However, the Real Fuels tanks are apparently capable of loading Kerosene.

So... what's the deal with that?

It's a code thing.

Liquid Fuel IS kerosene.

In this case, rather than changing all the liquid fuel identities in the code, they keep it labeled as 'liquid fuel' while altering its properties.

This way, if you go an install an unsupported engine from another mod, it doesn't break when that engine looks for 'liquid fuel' in the fuel set and can't find it. Make sense?

[NathanKell]

AdmiralTigerclaw: Nope, that was true of MFS 3.3. No longer true. I do, however, need to create a patch for BobCat's engines (until he updates them) to switch from LF to Kero.

ChronicSilence: You're using an engine patch that isn't fully RF v4 compliant. My apologies; I missed that step when uploading MFSEngines.cfg; that has now been fixed and anyone using it should redownload it. If you're using RftSEngines, it's up to date. If you're using RealEngines, it will be by the end of the weekend.

I have added the first three entries to the FAQ.

[NathanKell]

Sorry, missed this.

This makes way more sense. Regarding SFJackBauer's RealEngines, what do you mean when he say it uses "various models from various part packs"? Does that mean that the RealismOverhaul mod itself with his config (I think it's listed in the OP as "Realism Overhaul v3pre3") contains those engines/models? Or does that mean that if you install one of those "various mods", the relevant engine will be all nicely configured for real life?

The latter. You must download the part packs yourself, the parts themselves are not included in RO, just the patches.

On that point, do you think you might be able to expand in the OP a bit about which part mods are supported/suggested? You mention somewhere that it supports "all KATO engines" or something, but for someone like me who didn't start going for the "realism" until after you released your stuff, that doesn't mean much. Maybe a list of suggested part mods, with links to relevant threads?

Ah, sure. KATO engines was an old set of engine-changing configs of mine, it predated RftS (see sig). Though I don't mention KATO anywhere in the OP. When Chestburster and J_Davis are done with the stockalike configs I'll have an up-to-date list of what it supports; those which each RO supports are in the readme and will be on the OP of that thread on update.

[rottielover]

Did you:

1: Switch the thrusters to hydrazine mode? (If they had them)

2: Go to the tank and make sure the tank was loaded with hydrazine?

I've noticed at least in this version, at least until they went in to fix the cfgs, that all my tanks start empty.

1 - I attempted to do so in the vab the same way I do it with the engines, go into action edit mode, click the part, but no menu was displayed for the rcs thruster ports, (hence why I asked if they were required to be in the engine config or not).

2 - yes

[NathanKell]

Which RCS thrusters are you using? Only the Squad RCS thrusters and the two rescales of the Squad quad in RO are modularized (and this is done in RO, since it's a config--you need one of the RO preview builds from the second post).

[NathanKell]

v4.1 is up, with big thanks to taniwha!

Changelog:

v4.1 = \/

*Lowered aerospike sea-level Isp

*Added SNServiceModules

*Reworked thrust-setting code and fixed RCS thrust issue

*Now when you cut thrust, thrust is actually cut: min thrust goes to 0 for all engines (if the throttle is even 1% above 0, however, then minthrust will remain normal). This is so you can "cut off" engines without disabling them (i.e. by hitting x, or whatever your 0 throttle key is) and for MJ/KER/etc compatibility.

*Fixed duplicating fuel gauges

*Fixed EI ignitions remaining; added dictionary listing which propellants are pressurized.

*Added nitrogen (ArgonGas no longer modified, since this doesn't support the rest of NFPP yet)

*taniwha's MFT v4.1 fixes:

*Allow tank amounts to be set to 0. This fixes the problem with non-fillable tanks (eg, Kethane).

*Blank fields no longer reset to the previous amount and are treated as 0 when updating.

*Overfull tanks now display the available volume in red.

*Tanks placed using symmetry no longer invite the kraken (no more ship flying apart but still connected via fuel-lines)

*Source code removed from the distribution zip. See OP for github link.

Edited January 5, 2014 by NathanKell

[lmw5201]

Title says that today is January 5th 2013. It's already January 5th 2014, man!

Edited January 5, 2014 by lmw5201

[ChronicSilence]

AdmiralTigerclaw: Nope, that was true of MFS 3.3. No longer true. I do, however, need to create a patch for BobCat's engines (until he updates them) to switch from LF to Kero.

Ok, got it now. I was using RealEngines, I switched to RftS and that works well. BobCat's Soviet engines still show LF though, yes.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

AdmiralTigerclaw: Nope, that was true of MFS 3.3. No longer true. I do, however, need to create a patch for BobCat's engines (until he updates them) to switch from LF to Kero.

ChronicSilence: You're using an engine patch that isn't fully RF v4 compliant. My apologies; I missed that step when uploading MFSEngines.cfg; that has now been fixed and anyone using it should redownload it. If you're using RftSEngines, it's up to date. If you're using RealEngines, it will be by the end of the weekend.

I have added the first three entries to the FAQ.

Ah, so how'd you tweak that? Did you simply hide the pointer under the hood?

By that, I mean do all calls for liquid fuel get redirected to kerosene away in the API instead of where the player can see it? Or are we just ignoring liquid fuel and only working with what's in the cfgs instead?

Also... I can't for the LIFE of me figure out where I've seen your name (outside kerbal) from.

[ChronicSilence]

In my quest to get a bunch of mods working perfectly, I've noticed a couple things you may be interested in for future patches:

1) the NovaPunch "In-line Twin Fusion Rocket Engines" (1.25m and 2.5m), all of the Radial Boosters, and "NERVA Mk. I Nuclear Thermal Rocket Engine" don't have Engine Config modules (no tech levels, and the fusion engines / radial boosters still use LiquidFuel). I realize the NERVA uses a HybridEngine module instead, but I think it should still have tech levels since the LV-N does.

2) the NovaPunch RCS ports don't have EngineConfig modules like the stock RCS ones do (i.e. monopropellant only)

3) the stock R.A.P.I.E.R. engine doesn't have an Engine Config module (no tech levels for the rocket mode, and still runs on LiquidFuel)

4) the control panel for StretchyTanks is glitching where it shows the amount of mass that would be added for filling it with a given fuel: for example, it says "LiquidOxygen Max: 7200 (+0.018 tons)". When you fill it with LiquidOxygen, however, it adds ~8 tons. The opposite is true for the ElectricCharge resource on the service module tank, which says "Max: 720000 (+203.4 tons)", but in fact adds 2.034 tons. Image below.

5) not only do Bobcat's Soviet Engines still use LiquidFuel, they don't have any tech levels either (but I think you already know that one, since they're both done in the EngineConfigs module).

Not complaining or anything. Just bug reports. I'm a huge fan of your work.

Edited January 5, 2014 by ChronicSilence

[xZise]

Hi a little feature request: My resolution is so low that I always have to scroll down to automatically add a default mixture. Can you maybe add an checkbox or something like that which when activated only show common fuels? As I'm using stockalike I'm basically using only LF, LOx, LH2, MMH and N2O4. As I don't know how it is for others here you may add an option to list all common fuels? (I personally would perfectly fine if there wasn't a GUI to do that but only a settings file)

Okay I have another question: As it looks like you have removed LiquidFuel do I need to edit the persistent.sfs and change LF to Kerosene (I assume changing names only would suffice)?

Fabian

PS: Okay I haven't tested 4.1 yet.

Edited January 5, 2014 by xZise
added question about LF/Kerosene change

[J_Davis]

As I'm using stockalike I'm basically using only LF, LOx, LH2, MMH and N2O4.

Chestburster and I are working on a more interesting stockalike set that will be using more fuels, just to warn ya.