Could Flash Drives And Cartriges Be Better Than Disks?

[Titan Space Agency]

Now, I have been pondering the question, 'Are Game cartridges better than disks?'.

My guess was 'YES!'

So I did some research and found some info about DVD's Blue Ray's and Flash drives. I will post the memory(if it is a disk I will be posting the info for a duel layer), the physical size, and any notes.

[Memory][Phy. Size ][Any notes...

DVD :[9 gigs ][5inchInDiamiter][ Used for Xbox360

BlueRay :[50 gigs ][5inchInDiamiter][ Used for PS3

8gigFlashDrives:[8 gigs ][2"x3/4"x1/4" ][ Used for Computer and Xbox360 storage

320gigFlashDri.:[320 gigs][5"x3"x1/2" ][ Used for computer storage

Now think, would you rather pay for a disk that hold 9 gigabytes and costs 60 some dollars with the software, or a flash drive that holds the same program but costs less because the whole thing is cheaper to manufacture? Now think, which is better? The flash drive is much smaller for about the same memory, and cheaper. "But CD's are what are used, they must be better!" Nope, just because they are used doesn't mean that they are the best, they could just be used because the company is used to making those. Tell me what you think, which is more obsolete, the cd, or compact disk. If you have anything to add, post it as a reply.

[Galacticruler]

the CD is becoming obsolite. (See also: Steam)

Flash drives are getting better each release.

EDIT:

CDs do have one leg up on flash drives, the data stored on them decays slower, lasting ~500 years, as opposed to the flashdrives ~150.

the ~s because of wear-and tear.

EDIT2:

Oops, wrong poll option selected.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Galacticruler

[Kryten]

You seriously think the price of games has anything to do with the cost of manufacturing the media? Even blu-ray discs cost less than a couple of dollars each.

[TheShadow1138]

I'm not sure it would be cheaper to put the program on a flash drive as opposed to optical media. Doing a quick search on BestBuy.com I found a 50 GB dual layer writable BluRay for about $16 while the closest equivalent flash drive (64 GB) was on sale for $27.99 (regular price, $89.99). I also noticed that some 16 GB flash drives cost more (at their regular price) than the writable BluRay. I also found a 25 pack of dual layer DVD-Rs with a regular price of $43.99, which comes to about $1.76 per disk, opposed to a $10 16GB flash drive when its on sale.

I'd say that in the long run its cheaper to use the optical media, or we could be paying upwards of $100 per game if they were put on flash drives.

[Camacha]

You seriously think the price of games has anything to do with the cost of manufacturing the media? Even blu-ray discs cost less than a couple of dollars each.

Well, there is a reason the gaming console industry moved from cartridges to discs. Although discs can scratch and are more prone to loading times, they are a lot cheaper to manufacture.

[Thiel]

It's also worth mentioning that disks are far easier to write data to on an industrial scale.

[Nuke]

i got a 32 gig micro sd card off ebay for like $12, the lower capacity 2 and 4 gig cards can be had for about as much as a mastered dvd costs. its not quite as much space as a blue ray but its enough for most games. ive even ranted ad nauseum in favor of a high density low profile optical formats to send 5 1/4 bays to hell where they belong. but i dont think we will see another big removable format (there will be formats but they will just be flash devices, and wont be used for retail software). instead we will just going over to online app stores. im actually surprised that the latest generation of game consoles didnt go this way. the only reason we haven't is that not all isps offer unlimited downloads. i couldnt afford to download more than a couple games off steam per month. that will go away as we get more fiber in the ground.

big data is easy to move these days. i remember when i used to have a lunchbock full of floppies and had to use spanned zip archives to move around a few tens of megabytes.

[Camacha]

im actually surprised that the latest generation of game consoles didnt go this way. the only reason we haven't is that not all isps offer unlimited downloads. i couldnt afford to download more than a couple games off steam per month. that will go away as we get more fiber in the ground.

Remember that not everyone is interested in the cloud, as it means total dependency on a third party. Third party gone? Your investment gone. With the average lifecycle of modern IT-companies that means a significant chance you will lose something you still wanted to use in the not so long run.

I am not even talking about day to day issues, like not having an (reliable) internet connection and Steam insisting it needs an update.

[jwenting]

well said. I've lost my access to the original Guildwars not because the company is gone or they stopped hosting the game, but because they changed the login system to require remembering a character name. After 5 years of not playing the game, is it any surprise I no longer remember the names I created back then?

Even worse, their system to reset accounts is broken so you can't even get your account back if you can no longer log in to them, even if you can prove (and I have CD keys, original discs, etc.) that I am the rightful owner of the account, they still refuse to unlock it...

And that's just an old game. If you have your business documents "in the cloud" and the hosting provider decides to change something in their systems locking you out, you're now without documents you have a legal requirement to have access to...

And that could be as simple as a bug in a new version of their API that causes their servers to become unreachable (though that's likely only a temporary problem).

[Nuke]

Remember that not everyone is interested in the cloud, as it means total dependency on a third party. Third party gone? Your investment gone. With the average lifecycle of modern IT-companies that means a significant chance you will lose something you still wanted to use in the not so long run.

I am not even talking about day to day issues, like not having an (reliable) internet connection and Steam insisting it needs an update.

i personally dont like cloud services and app stores either, but that is the way its going. steam boxes will probibly lead the way. we could improve things with decentralized app stores. pirates certainly figured out how to distribute data, commercial distributes might take the pirate's model and turn it against them. have users host the files and provide the neccisary bandwidth. move license validation code to the client side applications. so no more licensing services that can go down any time. multiple users validate licenses for other users, as well as validating that a user's client hasn't been tampered with. to make sure people keep their clients up, reward users with store credit for providing bandwidth and cpu power for license validation (sort of the way bitcoin uses miners to keep the system running). what people call cloud computing really isnt because its still dependant on a few centralized servers, everything has to be decentralized and supported by the user base for that to work.

[Camacha]

what people call cloud computing really isnt because its still dependant on a few centralized servers, everything has to be decentralized and supported by the user base for that to work.

Even though I would prefer full control on my side, your idea is an implementation I could live with. That is never going to happen though, not only because giving authentication control to the public (even if distributed) is something that scares publishers silly, but also because the cloud is designed to gain control over the digital lives of customers. What you describe is the exact opposite, as costumers become less dependent on any central control. Power is money, so I can not see any publisher willingly giving that up.

People tend to believe the cloud was invented to cater to their needs, but in reality it is the industry's way of 1) moving towards a model where they are providing a service instead of a product, so that the average end user is continuously paying where he would have paid only once before (see Adobe with their new CC model or Microsoft with Office) and 2) disabling the possibility any second hand sales, which is legal but viewed as a problem. Slowly but surely you are getting used to the idea that you are renting software instead of buying it. So far the general public is loving it, but remember that the first lines of coke are always free.

Personally I try to buy everything DRM-free and outside of Steam/uPlay/et cetera, but nowadays that often is not even an option. I am glad to have bought KSP as a clean and simple downloadable version though.

[EvilotionCR2]

Even though I would prefer full control on my side, your idea is an implementation I could live with. That is never going to happen though, not only because giving authentication control to the public (even if distributed) is something that scares publishers silly, but also because the cloud is designed to gain control over the digital lives of customers. What you describe is the exact opposite, as costumers become less dependent on any central control. Power is money, so I can not see any publisher willingly giving that up.

People tend to believe the cloud was invented to cater to their needs, but in reality it is the industry's way of 1) moving towards a model where they are providing a service instead of a product, so that the average end user is continuously paying where he would have paid only once before (see Adobe with their new CC model or Microsoft with Office) and 2) disabling the possibility any second hand sales, which is legal but viewed as a problem. Slowly but surely you are getting used to the idea that you are renting software instead of buying it. So far the general public is loving it, but remember that the first lines of coke are always free.

Personally I try to buy everything DRM-free and outside of Steam/uPlay/et cetera, but nowadays that often is not even an option. I am glad to have bought KSP as a clean and simple downloadable version though.

Steam version of KSP is DRMfree too.

[sjwt]

Disks cost Cents each to manufacturer and put into a case, Flash drives costs $ to make. Using Flash drives will put the price up.

[Camacha]

Steam version of KSP is DRMfree too.

You need Steam, which I consider a form of DRM in itself as the game needs an external program to work.

[sidew]

You can launch KSP without opening steam.... also copy the folder outsite SteamApp..

[Moar Boosters]

the CD is becoming obsolite. (See also: Steam)

Flash drives are getting better each release.

EDIT:

CDs do have one leg up on flash drives, the data stored on them decays slower, lasting ~500 years, as opposed to the flashdrives ~150.

the ~s because of wear-and tear.

EDIT2:

Oops, wrong poll option selected.

CDs don't last anywhere near that long. I work in a large film archive, and we have CD's which have already started degrading after only 10-15 years or so in storage. Some are so bad they've become unreadable. The glue that sticks the layers together breaks down due to exposure to light, which then allows air and moisture access to the reflective surface. It doesn't help that for years they were being stored in jewel cases that let the light in.

[Aghanim]

i personally dont like cloud services and app stores either, but that is the way its going. steam boxes will probibly lead the way. we could improve things with decentralized app stores. pirates certainly figured out how to distribute data, commercial distributes might take the pirate's model and turn it against them. have users host the files and provide the neccisary bandwidth. move license validation code to the client side applications. so no more licensing services that can go down any time. multiple users validate licenses for other users, as well as validating that a user's client hasn't been tampered with. to make sure people keep their clients up, reward users with store credit for providing bandwidth and cpu power for license validation (sort of the way bitcoin uses miners to keep the system running). what people call cloud computing really isnt because its still dependant on a few centralized servers, everything has to be decentralized and supported by the user base for that to work.

Torrent technology never stops to fascinate me, its better with large amount of downloaders. Of course, having >$1000 spent on games and it disappear in minutes because someone on steam hates you and nuked your account is a real risk that is much more worse that server going down (offline mode anybody?) Or someone hacked your account.

But distributed licence? Well that was new. DRM free is better

[Spartwo]

USBs and Cartridges don't scratch.

[vetrox]

USBs and Cartridges don't scratch.

They can still go missing, get sat on, get stolen go missing. Flash drives can still corrupt by unplugging at the wrong time (i have had this happen once)

I love cloud computing.

Dont remember the last time I needed a disk. I even had games on my 360 that were bought on market so no need for disc.

Cant wait for steambox IT WILL BE THE FUTURE!!! I accept that people dislike steam but for me its the perfect solution. All my games in one place. They dont take up room on my hard drive if i dont want to play them. Plus steam shows me all my purchased games. So sometimes i get bored and think, "huh, i really fancy playing bioshock" all i do is hit download and 10 minutes later its done. I dont have to find the disc or anything god bless the future...i mean...uhh the present

Note: I wouldnt know about ksp if it wasnt for steam!

Note 2: If you dont like the idea of being forced to have an internet connection theres a button on steam called "offline mode" this allows you to use steam without the internet.

EDIT: I have alot less problems with steam than i do with Origin!

Edited January 3, 2014 by vetrox

[nhnifong]

I don't think optical media will be supported much longer unless it can be converted to a far smaller form-factor.

It's just too tempting to replace the giant optical drive in laptops with more battery or something.

[Nuke]

i liked that sony minidisc format they had in the 90s. it was an optical disc in a caddy that was about the same size as a cf card. do that but with blue ray density and its something i could live with, or perhaps do an 8cm blue ray successor, and would make a good format for retail distribution.

i think i still prefer using my card reader and sd cards as my sneaker net of choice (that is where my wireless network will not suffice). just because its a lot easier to write to and you have capacity in the gigabytes. flash density/$$$ is always going up. optical formats on the other hand come out too infrequently to keep up. flash isnt really suited for long term storage though (ive seen datasheets claiming 20+ years data retention), and rom never really evolved beyond the needs to bootstrap a 1980's computer system. id love to see sd roms in the tens of gigabytes range for media distribution.

i should also point out that the price you pay for flash (or any other chip) is not going to be the price distributors pay for flash (or any other chip), since they will be buying in volume. at volume the unit price of any media becomes irrelevant.

Even though I would prefer full control on my side, your idea is an implementation I could live with. That is never going to happen though, not only because giving authentication control to the public (even if distributed) is something that scares publishers silly, but also because the cloud is designed to gain control over the digital lives of customers. What you describe is the exact opposite, as costumers become less dependent on any central control. Power is money, so I can not see any publisher willingly giving that up.

People tend to believe the cloud was invented to cater to their needs, but in reality it is the industry's way of 1) moving towards a model where they are providing a service instead of a product, so that the average end user is continuously paying where he would have paid only once before (see Adobe with their new CC model or Microsoft with Office) and 2) disabling the possibility any second hand sales, which is legal but viewed as a problem. Slowly but surely you are getting used to the idea that you are renting software instead of buying it. So far the general public is loving it, but remember that the first lines of coke are always free.

Personally I try to buy everything DRM-free and outside of Steam/uPlay/et cetera, but nowadays that often is not even an option. I am glad to have bought KSP as a clean and simple downloadable version though.

thats pretty much it. nobody wants a pro consumer system, not even the majority consumers (or at least not to the point where they would do without something they want because they dont like how its distributed). the only way the cloud will fail is if nobody buys into it, the problem is everybody does. the current generation of gamers is eventually going to go through their nostalgia phase, only to find the majority of their games depend on drm servers that no longer exist. only then will they figure out what the cloud really took away form them, and by then it will be too late. but its not totally grim. hackers are really good at breaking drm, which is totally legal for archival purposes.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Nuke

[maccollo]

Ignoring the cost factor, or long term storage, flash drives are superior in their form factor and ease of use. For this reason flash drives are the clear choice for my personal data.

Cost wise CDs are still cheaper to produce. A blueray disc costs about 10 cents per GB while flash drives sit at around 60. This is important when you are trying to sell something that contains a lot of data for a cheap price, such as HD movies.

As the price comes per GB goes down this difference becomes less significant, until there's an increase in the amount of data you're need to pack into your product, such as the 4K format or higher texture resolutions for games.

As far as long term storage goes disc win (at the moment), with the M-disc having the expected lifetime of 1000 years.

Edited January 3, 2014 by maccollo

[MC.STEEL]

For me anything is better than CDs because those little friggin things ALWAYS manage to get scratched no matter how carefull you are with them.

[ZetaX]

You need to scratch them a lot to stop functioning, both from practical and theoretical point of view.

[Extemporary]

There's something a bit more satisfying about using a disc over a flash drive. And if it's a bit cheaper, all the better. I don't consider it too important to me though, and I'm content with either form of physical storage.

However:

I absolutely DETEST the move towards cloud storage. Not just because of the potential DRM (which will be bypassed somehow), not just because of subscriptions (which also will be bypassed), but because NOT EVERYONE HAS A GIGABIT CONNECTION. I get charged $130/month for half a megabyte per second peak download speeds, and it's down about 2-3 times a week for an hour or so at a time. This makes it the fastest, cheapest, and most reliable connection available. Most games on my Steam account have never been played because I haven't the opportunity to download 10 GB monstrosities. I have never been able to stream anything live above 480p quality. A lot of people in the world have far worse connections than me. How the hell are we supposed to function in a world that keeps everything online? For me, it is still far faster to drive twenty minutes to the store, buy a movie, and drive home than it would be to download it. Even if DRM is bypassed, and subscriptions averted through piracy or similar means, these products will still be inaccessible to me.

The entertainment industry is worried about losing profit from a more expensive storage format? Maybe they should look into the profit they're losing from potential customers who WANT to spend money on the products, and have the money to spend, but can't because of the storage format.