Science Revisited - New and improved ways to do science [1.3.1]

[CaptRobau]

Thanks for letting me know!

[daver4470]

Capt. --

I'm 100% in favor of this mod and what you're trying to do here, as science is the one thing that makes me bang my head against the wall repeatedly.

Buuuut.... I'm caught in a bit of a catch-22 right now. Partially my own fault (for bad tech tree purchase choices), but also due to the quirky part distribution in the tech tree. Here's the problem: I'm sitting on about 13 science right now, with 45 needed to open the current tier branch. But -- and this is the underlying issue -- batteries aren't unlocked yet. Because, for some reason, the basic battery pack is in the third tier of science options,* and I went for the control route instead of the power route.

So now I functionally can't do anything but orbit a 1-kerbal capsule and do biome science to the extent I can, and the woeful little EVA reports. But that generates virtually no science now, because it's all been done. I could land a probe on the Mun and get tons of science... but I've got nothing to power the probe with. ARRRGH.

Fully admit that this is basically a rant against the throw-it-against-the-wall-and-see-where-it-landed nature of the tech tree.... but just wanted to pass along the thought that if you're going to stick to the one-EVA-report design paradigm (which I think is perfectly valid), you might want to give some thought to not just the science instrumentation, but to the vehicle infrastructure needed to obtain a variety of science reporting in the early career game. Maybe stick a rudimentary battery and/or solar panel in an early tech node?

Thanks; keep up the good work!

*I can't emphasize how stupid I think this is. Kerbals are apparently smart enough to craft energy storage modules in their capsules, but cannot stumble upon the concept of "hey, maybe we could use these bat-ter-ees on their own as power supplies!" without heavy technological investment....

[mareolan]

@daver4470: There should be plenty science available in the neighbourhood of the KSC. Did you take surface samples, EVAs, thermometer, barometer data and crew reports after landing in various biomes on Kerbin (there're many near KSC - Launchpad, Runway, KSC, Shores, Water, Grassland, Highlands)? Each surface sample (from different biome) should give you 9+ science and another 2+ when repeated. You can also do most of these when flying in lower and upper atmosphere, some even per biome.

I tried and got all 5 lower tier techs + Flight Control with 3 science remaining and I visited just Launchpad, Runway, KSC and Water, maybe part of Shores (and didn't get to upper atmosphere at all). If you get to an orbit you can do crew reports per biome that you're flying over (I use VOID add-on to see which biome I'm flying over).

That doesn't mean that the idea of getting batteries sooner should be thrown away, just that you should be able to get from your situation regardless .

[sota767]

I've noticed one issue using the surface mapper item. It seems like if I click on it when time accelerated when I go back to 1x normal speed I can no longer click it's button to start mapping. The item only ever reports its temperature after that and the 'Start Mapping' action button disappears. Has anybody else seen this or is it just my system?

[somnambulist]

I've noticed one issue using the surface mapper item. It seems like if I click on it when time accelerated when I go back to 1x normal speed I can no longer click it's button to start mapping. The item only ever reports its temperature after that and the 'Start Mapping' action button disappears. Has anybody else seen this or is it just my system?

Happening for me, too. I've been able to fix it by loading another craft and then switching back.

[daver4470]

Also happening for me.

And I did manage to muddle through and find a couple of missions that generated good positive science. (The best way to explore Kerbin's south pole is, of course, to parachute a spacecraft on top of it....) Once the battery unlocked, a couple of probe missions to the Mun and Minmus generated enough science to unlock the first solar panels, and from then on it's all gravy.

[CaptainKipard]

Do I need to start a new game with this mod?

[somnambulist]

Do I need to start a new game with this mod?

Nope, it drops in fine to an existing career game. iirc some of the science parts are moved around in the tech tree so you might lose access to those parts in the VAB/SPH if you haven't unlocked the tier yet. Shouldn't be save breaking.

[undercoveryankee]

Is there any difference between the solar panel curve in ScienceRevisited_SolarPanels.cfg and what's in Stock Rebalance?

[KerbMav]

Is there any difference between the solar panel curve in ScienceRevisited_SolarPanels.cfg and what's in Stock Rebalance?

From the notes of Stock Rebalance:

Solar panels charge curve rebalance to give an inverse sqaure law (-> CaptRobau)

[BudgetHedgehog]

Is there a way to make this work with TreeLoader? I recently downloaded Near Future that has some new nodes and I noticed the part placement in the tech tree isn't being applied any more (grr, cheaty Science Jr so early).. is it as simple as putting :Final at the end of every reshuffling?

[guto8797]

Is this mod still alive? In case so, how does it fare with treeloader, things like KSPI tree, NearFuture etc

[undercoveryankee]

Is there a way to make this work with TreeLoader? I recently downloaded Near Future that has some new nodes and I noticed the part placement in the tech tree isn't being applied any more (grr, cheaty Science Jr so early).. is it as simple as putting :Final at the end of every reshuffling?

As far as I can tell, TreeLoader always runs only after ModuleManager has completed all of its passes, including :FINAL, so there's no way for MM to override a TreeLoader tree. But if a part isn't listed in the TreeLoader config, it will go into the node that its part.cfg and ModuleManager put it in as long as that node exists.

Best practice for tree authors would be to go into tree.cfg and remove any mention of parts that are in the same node listed in their own config files, so only the parts that TreeLoader is actually modifying are put beyond the reach of ModuleManager.

Is this mod still alive? In case so, how does it fare with treeloader, things like KSPI tree, NearFuture etc

Even if TreeLoader is overriding the node assignments, all of the other changes still work. I usually run the KSPI tree, and I still like to have this installed.

Edited June 11, 2014 by undercoveryankee

[CaptRobau]

Is this mod still alive? In case so, how does it fare with treeloader, things like KSPI tree, NearFuture etc

Not really. I have no time for this ATM. There's ideas floating around the old noodle to improve this mod, but it's just too low priority at the moment for me to spend time on. Maybe in the future.

[JuggernautOfWar]

Download link is not working for me. Any other links?

[Lord Aurelius]

I noticed that this mod is licensed under creative commons, so if CaptRobau doesn't have time, could someone repost the download since the original download link doesn't work?

[BudgetHedgehog]

Here ya go: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46517359/uploads-2014-02-Science-Revisited-1.3.1.zip

[Vladthemad]

Hmm...that doesn't mean it's "dead". Is it working as designed for 23.5? That's all that matters!

[somnambulist]

Hmm...that doesn't mean it's "dead". Is it working as designed for 23.5? That's all that matters!

It works fine with .23.5

[Jaxx]

Not really. I have no time for this ATM. There's ideas floating around the old noodle to improve this mod, but it's just too low priority at the moment for me to spend time on. Maybe in the future.

We can only hope when it dies down a bit for you, you come back to us. I greatly appreciated what this mod did.

[Jaxx]

We can only hope when it dies down a bit for you, you come back to us. I greatly appreciated what this mod did.

Well, it's awkward coming back for a rez bump to keep the thread active and seeing your own post last. But I'm also wondering, does this work with .25 fully? Or is there stuff you wouldn't notice not working at first glance?

[BudgetHedgehog]

It's working fine for me. No part names were changed in 0.25 and that's what this mod targets so it should (and does for me) work straight out the box. Nothing wrong or broken as far as I can tell and I'm currently enjoying this on hard mode career so.. yeah, unless there's things I haven't noticed (which I wouldn't know about), it works 100% as intended.

[Jaxx]

Ah crap, the download link is obsolete, would you/someone be able to reupload it as-is? The license allows for it.

[BudgetHedgehog]

Ah crap, the download link is obsolete, would you/someone be able to reupload it as-is? The license allows for it.

Luckily, my link is still active:

Here ya go: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46517359/uploads-2014-02-Science-Revisited-1.3.1.zip

[Jaxx]

Awesome, thanks.