Megaupload discussion

[Capt'n Skunky]

My position is that I don\'t automatically believe everything the government says, not that everything they say is always lies. They\'ve lied in the past, they\'ve fabricated evidence in the past, they\'ve broken US and International laws, all these things. So anytime they make claims and present evidence, I use a healthy does of skepticism. Do not mistake my skepticism for paranoia.

[Blinkin]

My position is that I don\'t automatically believe everything the government says, not that everything they say is always lies. They\'ve lied in the past, they\'ve fabricated evidence in the past, they\'ve broken US and International laws, all these things. So anytime they make claims and present evidence, I use a healthy does of skepticism. Do not mistake my skepticism for paranoia.

And this is exactly how we all should think.

We aren\'t living in the 18th century any more. The time where the government told us what to do and controlled everyone by keeping us \'dumb\'.

Are we \'dumb\'? Are we as stupid as pineapples? (no offence to pineapples sorry) No I don\'t think so.

We shouldn\'t believe everything they tell us. Sure they have good idea\'s but that\'s not a valid reason to just believe them on their words.

Capt\'n Skunky made a very good point. I\'d also like to see more evidence, and not only presented by the people who want to shut down sharing sites because they are \'bad\'.

Which are by the way the same people that stand for open information sharing (being a transparent organisation) and are at the same time blocking sites like Wikileaks because those sites show us everything what they are doing. 8)

Doesn\'t that sound weird to you? :-\

[sneakeypete]

You can point to the governments 'evidence' all you want, it doesn\'t mean shit until vetted by experts in a court of law.

Um, do you realise that this evidence was presented to a grand jury to get the indictment against them?...

It does mean shit. Which is why the authorites in NZ, and elsehwere didn\'t hesitate to arrest the said people and raid said operations. Which is perfectly normal under international law.

[bandit4910]

Be glad we still have MediaFire.

I agree with Capt\'n Skunky on this one.

The governments word MEANS NOTHING anymore.

[fairtonybeta]

Yes. If not, please give me source. Remind yourself that we live in a society where you are _innocent_ untill proven guilty, and that noone has seen the proof the DoJ claims it has, or how they have gotten it.

In fact, I\'ve written papers about this. Unless there is written evidence that they supported piracy ( ie internal email - of which law enforcement has gotten legitimate access - where they expressly support piracy and take measures to support it for money ) there is _nothing_ illegal about hosting a file sharing website. I can\'t stress this enough - there is _nothing_ illegal about it. They even support take downs of non-judiary requests from various companies that SAY that they have found something that they would like to take down, without the possibility of the uploader to revert the decision without spending a lot of money.

Even the Pirate Bay - which I assume you think actively supports piracy - does _nothing_ illegal. Various media companies and lobbyists would want you to think otherwise, but it\'s just not the case. All they do is provide a platform for users to share 'torrent' files, which are indexes for other files that are created by users.

'supporting' copyright infringement is not a crime. It should not be a crime. Saying it is a crime is stupid. A website / forum / imageboard is _not_ responsible for what it\'s owner\'s do, say or remove. They can remove it, if they are asked or ordered to by a judge, but they should not be held liable if they don\'t remove it without such a discussion.

Whether a capability for something is used for legal or illegal means is irrelevant; the capability is not legal or illegal because of this.

This is why a capability ('uploading of large parts of data') is not illegal, even if it used as such.

And this argument doesn\'t even go against the very core of the issue - whether piracy is good or bad. I personally am convinced it is in fact a good thing, and that copyright as it exists now is stupid, does not do what it should do, and in fact is even immoral.

I live in the Netherlands, where downloading is, in fact, legal. Yes, legal. We pay an added tax on hard drives, empty CD\'s and DVD\'s. The government uses this money to support artists. By logic removing the ways to pirating but still paying this tax the government makes people pay double - pretty dumb, right?

Alas, I urge you to read up a bit more about internet, copyright law ( what it\'s intention is, and what it currently does )- And look up the song 'happy birthday', that\'s a real succes story copyright-wise. Keep in mind the original intention of copyright, the various positive impacts pirating has on culture, entertainment and the economy, and the overlap between piraters and media consumers.

Looking at internal emails, statements from lobbyists and CEO\'s of the various agency\'s involved, the laws they pass and the response from people in the relevant fields, add to that some knowledge about digital security / obscurity and technical details of pirating - well, I for one can\'t draw any other conclusion then that the MPAA / RIAA nickname MAFIAA is quite correct...

SO SAY WE ALL!!!

Expect us

[Guest GroundHOG-2010]

Personally, I have never used megaupload. But I have been watching the news, and I do live in NZ (where the founders of megaupload live). I personally think that this megaupload founders will get charged, as they have already been charged in germany (hence being in NZ). As for skepticism, its better to be paranoid about everything then shuffle along mindlessly. Govenments lie all the time, about everything including mind control.