Evacuate Earth

[Dedjal]

Evolution does not have a "next step". That is simply not how it works, there is no goal, everything is only measured by survivability (which for aspergers generally is probably lower in a more natural environment).

While NT's would cover in caves with their makeshift spear, aspergers would have a fully functioned village with electricity, hehe.

[Charzy]

There is no price that can achieve that; that's my whole point. It's just delaying the inevitable.

Cleaning a cut to stop it getting infected is also delaying the inevitable. After all, they're going to die whether it's from infection at twenty or organ failure at eighty.

Humanity will inevitably stop being a thing, yes, but that doesn't mean we should sit back and let ourselves go extinct instead of doing all we can to prolong it for maybe a few thousand years more.

[78stonewobble]

But Aspergers would rationalize instead of socialize. Why talk about the weather when one can talk about how to create weather.

And why would an asperger have to be highly social to be accepted?

Let the asperger do what (s)he does best.

(S)he will be focused on that, and when you get to the arrival point, the asperger would go " oh, we are there? Okay, just need a few more mins..."

I just think a certain amount of social intelligence and/or ability is required to function as a group in tight quarters, over an extended period of time, where your life is dependent on eachother.

You can be the smartest person in the world, but if you **** people off to the degree, where they vent you out the airlock... It will be for naught.

I've met people with Aspergers and many other different psychological illnesses (ADHD, Depression, paranoid schizophrenic, manio depressive, dementia, dysthymics, post traumatic stress and what not) and while most often quite sweet (except for the homicide), they aren't necessarily "gods" gift to man or would automatically be an asset in the op's scenario.

[Ralathon]

While NT's would cover in caves with their makeshift spear, aspergers would have a fully functioned village with electricity, hehe.

People suffering from aspergers syndrome are not the superintelligent übermensch you seem to think they are.

Where would they get copper wire? power generation? crafting tools? Raw resources?

The only reason we are not currently huddling in caves is economies of scale. Humans cooperating to produce more resources for less effort via technology. The ability to cooperate is extremely important for the continued survival of humanity. So if you are bad in social settings you better have something really good to compensate for that. I did some research and I couldn't find any studies that suggest that sufferers from Aspergers are significantly better at their jobs than regular people. So in general its going to be a bad idea to put people with aspergers on the ship. Maybe there are some exceptionally skilled people who get on, but the representation on board will likely be lower than their representation here on the ground.

[Dedjal]

I just think a certain amount of social intelligence and/or ability is required to function as a group in tight quarters, over an extended period of time, where your life is dependent on eachother.

You can be the smartest person in the world, but if you **** people off to the degree, where they vent you out the airlock... It will be for naught.

I've met people with Aspergers and many other different psychological illnesses (ADHD, Depression, paranoid schizophrenic, manio depressive, dementia, dysthymics, post traumatic stress and what not) and while most often quite sweet (except for the homicide), they aren't necessarily "gods" gift to man or would automatically be an asset in the op's scenario.

I would not compare Asperger with paranoid schizophrenic, manip depressive, dementia, dysthymics nor PTS.

And why would an Asperger care enough to go to the steps of venting someone out?

If everyone is an asperger, then there will not be such a problem.

But I must admit, I would consider venting an NT out if (s)he is seen as a danger to the stability of the ship, but not an asperger. You can reason with logical beings, not with hormone controlled wild cards.

And do not take my word on this, but it has been said frequently to my knowledge, that 80% of all engineers are aspergers.

Now, that is something I have heard quite often and never bothered to check for myself, so wether it is valid or not, I do not know.

But considering the dedication a specialization require, I can understand why most aspergers chooses to be an engineer.

Aunt edit:

And in reply to the post above me. I have only myself to compare with when it comes to Aspergers. Never mentioned anything about uberhumans.

Never indicated it either.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Dedjal

[shynung]

I have only myself to compare with when it comes to Aspergers. Never mentioned anything about uberhumans.

Never indicated it either.

Having running electricity while others were still living in caves implies vastly superior intellect, hence the term 'übermensch'.

Also, engineering requires cooperation in addition to intelligence. Otherwise, the engineers would be limited to making things small enough for a single person to build.

[ZetaX]

Note that the "Ãœbermensch" as in Nietsches work is not only of strong intellect, but also of perfect bodily health. Thus it would not really apply here.

Regardless of that, I would challenge the notion of asperger being an illness at all. It is a state of the brain/mind/human incompatible with "normal" human social thinking. Calling it an illness fells very akin to calling homosexuality one, the problem actually being in the "normal" people that want the others to adhere to their standards.

Thus if you want to consider aspergers inadequate for the ship, then you will need to elaborate further. A lot of jobs can easily be done by persons only talking very sparsely with others, be it the aforementioned toilet cleaner or a scientist; you just need to treat aspergers differently, e.g. giving them a specific task to do by themselves (like "find a fix to the oxygen loss in section 57-A"). The ship, when underway, will not face many huge engineering problems (those are mostly pre-launch), just lots of small ones.

[78stonewobble]

I would not compare Asperger with paranoid schizophrenic, manip depressive, dementia, dysthymics nor PTS.

And why would an Asperger care enough to go to the steps of venting someone out?

If everyone is an asperger, then there will not be such a problem.

But I must admit, I would consider venting an NT out if (s)he is seen as a danger to the stability of the ship, but not an asperger. You can reason with logical beings, not with hormone controlled wild cards.

And do not take my word on this, but it has been said frequently to my knowledge, that 80% of all engineers are aspergers.

Now, that is something I have heard quite often and never bothered to check for myself, so wether it is valid or not, I do not know.

But considering the dedication a specialization require, I can understand why most aspergers chooses to be an engineer.

Aunt edit:

And in reply to the post above me. I have only myself to compare with when it comes to Aspergers. Never mentioned anything about uberhumans.

Never indicated it either.

If you can't compaire anything with anything else, then we have no point of reference for calling Aspergers for aspergers, "normal" for "normal" or depression for depression.

Different mental (or somatic) diseases have varying degrees of debilitation on a variation of parts of life.

Thankfully having aspergers is a relatively mild thing compaired to lots of other things people can have.

The point still stands, that you can be the smartest person in the world, but if you are unable to teamwork or just poor at it, you are, under some circumstances, not a benefit or can even be a detriment, to getting a task done.

There, a person with aspergers, can run into problems, depending on how it manifests. Which is why I say high functioning is required, atleast to the degree, where the persons job related skills times social skills add to the "team", rather than detracts from it.

Obviously, it has to be judged on an individual basis, rather than aspergers (anything else) automatically meaning better or worse.

Edited June 29, 2014 by 78stonewobble

[78stonewobble]

Note that the "Ãœbermensch" as in Nietsches work is not only of strong intellect, but also of perfect bodily health. Thus it would not really apply here.

Regardless of that, I would challenge the notion of asperger being an illness at all. It is a state of the brain/mind/human incompatible with "normal" human social thinking. Calling it an illness fells very akin to calling homosexuality one, the problem actually being in the "normal" people that want the others to adhere to their standards.

Thus if you want to consider aspergers inadequate for the ship, then you will need to elaborate further. A lot of jobs can easily be done by persons only talking very sparsely with others, be it the aforementioned toilet cleaner or a scientist; you just need to treat aspergers differently, e.g. giving them a specific task to do by themselves (like "find a fix to the oxygen loss in section 57-A"). The ship, when underway, will not face many huge engineering problems (those are mostly pre-launch), just lots of small ones.

We could argue that, but just because I want to shop groceries naked and nudity is completely natural, does not mean it is without problems if I do it.

Just as an example. I'm not a repressed nudist *lol*.

We have a right to be who we are, but it's only to a certain degree we have to "inflict" (I am that pale) how we are on others and "force" others to conform to "us".

[Dedjal]

If you can't compaire anything with anything else, then we have no point of reference for calling Aspergers for aspergers, "normal" for "normal" or depression for depression.

Different mental (or somatic) diseases have varying degrees of debilitation on a variation of parts of life.

Thankfully having aspergers is a relatively mild thing compaired to lots of other things people can have.

The point still stands, that you can be the smartest person in the world, but if you are unable to teamwork or just poor at it, you are, under some circumstances, not a benefit or can even be a detriment, to getting a task done.

There, a person with aspergers, can run into problems, depending on how it manifests. Which is why I say high functioning is required, atleast to the degree, where the persons job related skills times social skills add to the "team", rather than detracts from it.

Obviously, it has to be judged on an individual basis, rather than aspergers (anything else) automatically meaning better or worse.

Asperger is not a disease -.-

That you even insinuate that it is a mental decease along the same line as PTS, dementia and etc. Is something I would find offending.

But it is clear that your knowledge on the subject is lacking and is thus forgiven.

[ZetaX]

You read that example with homosexuality, right¿ Where is the difference, because I honestly see none that are relevant in this regard. Both groups are doing nothing to you and it is only your problem if you cannot accept different "lifestyles".

Edit: this is in responce to 78stonewobble

.

[Ralathon]

You read that example with homosexuality, right¿ Where is the difference, because I honestly see none that are relevant in this regard. Both groups are doing nothing to you and it is only your problem if you cannot accept different "lifestyles".

Edit: this is in responce to 78stonewobble

.

The difference is that this 'lifestyle' (aspergers) inhibits your ability to function in a group setting. On earth this is not a problem and special care can be taken to make you a productive member of society. On a spaceship where a single misscommunication can spell the extinction of humanity we don't have room for people who can't work in teams. Everyone on that ship needs to be a team player or soloist depending on the situation.

[78stonewobble]

Asperger is not a disease -.-

That you even insinuate that it is a mental decease along the same line as PTS, dementia and etc. Is something I would find offending.

But it is clear that your knowledge on the subject is lacking and is thus forgiven.

So, when I call aspergers for aspergers and PTSD for PTSD, I'm insinuating they are "along the same line"? Using their distinctly different names is lumping it all together in the category of mentally ill?

Ok, you're right... In the new "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 5th edition", where, instead of being it's own category, it is now a part of Autism over a severity spectrum instead.

A person with diabetes that manages it, still has diabetes. A person with cancer, that works, still has cancer.

You don't have to be in the hospital or strapped to a bed to be "ill". That's just varying degrees of debilitation or we can call it the diseases effect on a persons life. Just because it has a small effect does not mean it's not there.

Actually, lack of knowledge on the subject is what keeps us calling alot of these for mental diseases, when in fact, they are all somatic diseases, which we do not understand yet.

[78stonewobble]

You read that example with homosexuality, right¿ Where is the difference, because I honestly see none that are relevant in this regard. Both groups are doing nothing to you and it is only your problem if you cannot accept different "lifestyles".

Edit: this is in responce to 78stonewobble

.

I agree... there is no difference in principle.

But does everyone have the right to expose everyone else to all of their particular lifestyle everywhere in society?

I don't think so... People can do whatever they want in the privacy of their own home, but when it's a place where everyone has access to or someone elses property... Not so much...

Obviously we can't account for every other persons pet peeves and we shouldn't stop doing things that are very important to us, but there is quite a range between doing stuff we really like and forcing everything we do on other people.

[Kryten]

What a lot of people seem to be missing here is that there is, strictly speaking, no such thing as Asperger's syndrome as a separate syndrome; it is simply a term for mild manifestation of autism. Because of the nature of aspergers/autism as a multiple-gene hereditary disease, two people with it are likely to have offspring with more affected genes that either alone-and therefore more severely affected. One of the more common single-mutation causes of aspergers/autism, fragile-x syndrome, has also been shown to become more severe over generations-the mutation itself causes the affected gene to become highly prone to further mutations.

[Dedjal]

What a lot of people seem to be missing here is that there is, strictly speaking, no such thing as Asperger's syndrome as a separate syndrome; it is simply a term for mild manifestation of autism. Because of the nature of aspergers/autism as a multiple-gene hereditary disease, two people with it are likely to have offspring with more affected genes that either alone-and therefore more severely affected. One of the more common single-mutation causes of aspergers/autism, fragile-x syndrome, has also been shown to become more severe over generations-the mutation itself causes the affected gene to become highly prone to further mutations.

Now this I did not know. Very interesting.

Thank you for bringing this to light.

The fragile x syndrome thingie, that is.

But while we are severly offtopic regarding aspergers and their supposed inhability to cooperate (which I would deny, as aspergers generally tends to be more logical than NT's). I would like to say thank you all for being able to discuss such an subject. I find it very interesting and fun.

Aunt edit: fragile-x syndrome is not interlocked with autisme.

Oh well, I got to learn something new.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Dedjal

[Everten P.]

Use a space elevator and densely pack every human in containers that resemble the clone habitat modules from star wars the clone wars. The container could fit the average human in it and provides an area to live. (talk about a small apartment!)

The humans would be packed no matter class in a 70km x 30km Of people and then a habitat of vegetation tended t by robots

[Seret]

And do not take my word on this, but it has been said frequently to my knowledge, that 80% of all engineers are aspergers.

As an engineer who spends all day with engineers I'd say you'd have to have an almost pointlessly broad definition of aspergers to reach that kind of number. Generally speaking engineers approach life fairly rationally, and many are very data-driven and have little time for sentimentality. However, there's a difference between highly rational neurotypicals and those on the spectrum. Many engineers are highly social, and being that way is often a huge asset to your career. You can only get so far on pure technical abilities, you have to be able to network, and if you ever want to manage or lead other engineers then you need those soft skills. Having aspergers is career-limiting, but aspies would be uncomfortable is management positions anyway, so nobody really minds. Horses for courses.

I would say there are some engineers who are on the spectrum, but they're a minority (maybe 10%). They tend to be the ones the other engineers think are nerdy but useful as they do lots of really good in-depth analysis, and are often the ones who knock up useful tools and spreadsheets that every one else uses to make their life easier.

[KAL 9000]

The documentary is scientifically sound.:rolleyes:Personally, I wouldn't try to sabotage the project, as long as the genetic maniacs :huh:wouldn't pick who got to go. We should randomly select the crew, excluding anyone who would be a danger to the rest of the crew (example: psychos). We'd also need a crew (scientists, engineers, pilots, etc). As for life support, we know a self-sustaining ecosystem is possible, because isn't Earth a giant self-sustaining ecosystem?

[KAL 9000]

How would you do this in Kerbal?

[Bill Phil]

Aunt edit: fragile-x syndrome is not interlocked with autisme.

I can tell you right now that autism is a symptom, but not necessarily directly caused by the FMR1 gene's mutation that results in Fragile-X syndrome.

As per Autism, I wouldn't call it a disease. Variation within a population is a very good thing, evolutionarily speaking. I would say autism is a variation. Whether or not it's a good thing... well... that depends. I know people with autism. Some very smart people. A few can't even speak. Some are operating just fine, and others are having problems. That's because autism has a whole scale. Variations within variations, I guess.

[SargeRho]

Autism is certainly a disease, a disease that can make people incredibly smart, but at the same time, completely screw up their social and sensory abilities, which it does in my case for example. The word "Disease" seems to have acquired some negative connotations, but Autism still fits the definition of a disease.

"disease

noun

a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury."

Since Autism is a developmental disorder in the brain, it fits the definition of a disease. At the very least it's a disability.

[Xannari Ferrows]

Autism is certainly a disease, ...

That's thin ice, bro. Like, a few Planck lengths at most. I'm one to say it isn't even real. Just means that they don't conform to our expectations.

[SargeRho]

I don't see how factual statements are thin ice. It's like saying "African American is certainly a race" is thin ice. At the very least, there's something wrong when I can't read, and sometimes even recognize, faces, have virtually no intuitive social abilities, can't talk properly, and completely shut down when I hear any kind of loud noise, or see very bright lights. That goes well beyond just "normal" variation within a species.

[Xannari Ferrows]

Because it's not factual. That's a very common misconception. It takes what's not standard and calls it abnormal, or corrupted, just because it's not what most people want. You're talking to someone who's had far more experience with than she cares to admit to.