[WIP] MSI's Infernal Robotics - Model Rework (v02 Pre-Release Beta)

[ZodiusInfuser]

As a bit of a break from the robotics parts, today I decided to work on the model for a much requested feature for IR (by Scott Manley at least). A Strut Decoupler!! (Thanks to Albert VDS for providing the original cfg for this part, and landeTLS for showing me how the stock struts are contructed in Unity).

The idea is that you use this for all the situations where you need to tie robotics parts down, but don't want to create some elaborate system involving decouplers, struts and girders. You can then trigger them to decouple via right-click or action group. They also appear in the staging menu, but only during flight (need to look into this some more).

No ETA on this yet, so don't get too excited

[Albert VDS]

Have you tried to change the "module = Strut" to "module = Decoupler" and have the strut as a MODULE {}?

[smunisto]

If only we could have the stubs disappear after they have been decoupled. This is my single problem with the struts as a whole.

[ZodiusInfuser]

If only we could have the stubs disappear after they have been decoupled. This is my single problem with the struts as a whole.

Quick save and reload? Worked in my test for this at least.

Edited May 24, 2014 by ZodiusInfuser

[sirkut]

Nice going ZI.

[Albert VDS]

Quick save and reload? Worked in my test for this at least.

You could also try adding isOmniDecoupler = true to the decoupler module, it should decouple from both parts.

[Camacha]

Based on Cpt. Kipard's feedback the base markers are no longer emissive, since once in-flight they serve no purpose. The direction indicators on the other hand are useful both in-editor and in-flight. In fact I'm exploring the option of making them dynamic, such that they account for whether the rotation of a part is inverted or not. Don't expect anything to come from this in the short term though.

Short or long term does not matter much to me - I just do my best to make useful suggestions, so KSP might end up as a(n even more) wonderful sandbox environment

[BudgetHedgehog]

So I'm having some trouble with getting these parts in my career. The thing is, I have TreeLoader installed (for Near Future Technologies) and the parts aren't showing up. Which is weird, because the normal IR parts are.. I'm having issues with TreeLoader messing up placements as well, but that's unrelated - the point is: is there something I can do make these parts load, or is it something TreeLoader or you has to do?

[sirkut]

Did you check the cfg files to see if they have any science related lines included?

[ZodiusInfuser]

I managed to get the strut working faster than I expected, so go download it in the OP (part of the robotics pack).

Use it to hold robotics parts in place during launch, then trigger them via staging, action group or right-click menu. Warning: avoid moving robotics parts whilst these are connected as when decoupled the sudden forces could destroy your craft!!

This example craft does highlight the need for something to hold the arms in place once deployed though, perhaps a quantum strut? Let me know if an IR rework themed quantum strut would be of interest to people (i've never used the plugin before so don't know how effective it is).

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So I'm having some trouble with getting these parts in my career. The thing is, I have TreeLoader installed (for Near Future Technologies) and the parts aren't showing up. Which is weird, because the normal IR parts are.. I'm having issues with TreeLoader messing up placements as well, but that's unrelated - the point is: is there something I can do make these parts load, or is it something TreeLoader or you has to do?

All the robotics parts are under the Advanced MetalWorks tech node IIRC. Perhaps you need to go and unlock them (even if you've already unlocked the node)?

Edited May 24, 2014 by ZodiusInfuser

[Camacha]

I managed to get the strut working faster than I expected, so go download it in the OP (part of the robotics pack).

Quantum struts are quite useful, but I would much prefer to see something with similar functionality that could actually be autonomously deployed. It is quite hard to magically install tethers on a craft in space.

I am not sure how something like that should look though. Any ideas?

[ZodiusInfuser]

Quantum struts are quite useful, but I would much prefer to see something with similar functionality that could actually be autonomously deployed. It is quite hard to magically install tethers on a craft in space.

I'm yet to use QS so not quite sure what differing functionality you're referring to? Does the Line-of-Sight only limitation of the mod introduce issues? If you're just meaning visually then I was thinking of some sort of harpoon style device, not particularly spacey, but quite Kerbal (they do use a Claw to grab asteroids after all)

[BudgetHedgehog]

All the robotics parts are under the Advanced MetalWorks tech node IIRC. Perhaps you need to go and unlock them (even if you've already unlocked the node)?

Well aren't I a silly goose... I had unlocked the node but no parts had shown up. I'd download PWB Fuel Balancer as well and that wasn't showing up either which is why I thought it was something to do with TreeLoader, but what do you know, I go to the R&D and it's available to unlock, along with all the other parts. Weird.. still, thank you! I was getting worried because some IR parts are available earlier.. Hey, here's an idea for Biotronic - how about restricting rescale by tech tree level? Rather like Procedural Parts does, it'd be cool if these rework parts followed the IR parts in size. Like, default at medium, then unlock small and then large. Just a random thought I had.

Thanks again!

[CaptainKipard]

Is that strut re-attachable?

[ZodiusInfuser]

Unfortunately not , that's why I'm considering Quantum Struts as an option B. Unless of course someone wants to make a version of the KAS struts that can be attached together without an EVA'ed kerbal, then I'll happily do a model for it

[Camacha]

I'm yet to use QS so not quite sure what differing functionality you're referring to? Does the Line-of-Sight only limitation of the mod introduce issues? If you're just meaning visually then I was thinking of some sort of harpoon style device, not particularly spacey, but quite Kerbal (they do use a Claw to grab asteroids after all)

I think that is my quibble with quantum struts; they seem a bit too imaginative. I would prefer to see a mechanism employed that would actually be feasible in real life. On manned missions it is easy enough to imagine a little guy crawling out and setting up and tensioning the lines, but I do not really see that working in unmanned missions.

[ZodiusInfuser]

I think that is my quibble with quantum struts; they seem a bit too imaginative. I would prefer to see a mechanism employed that would actually be feasible in real life. On manned missions it is easy enough to imagine a little guy crawling out and setting up and tensioning the lines, but I do not really see that working in unmanned missions.

Ah, so purely asthetics then. I'll have a look and see if there's some current robotics research that could be extrapolated in that direction. I know of one academic paper involving the autonomous assembly of trusses, so there must be more.

Btw, for those playing with the new strut, would a half scale one for smaller craft be useful? I tried to apply tweakscale but it doesn't work with struts.

[phoenix_ca]

Neat. So once those struts are staged, they disappear right? No extraneous part count? (Yes, I'm a little OCD about part counts.)

I haven't played with the struts yet but do they have a Disable Staging tweakable? That'd be...nice. Avoid staging spam, just assign them to an action group instead.

[Darren9]

Ah, so purely asthetics then. I'll have a look and see if there's some current robotics research that could be extrapolated in that direction. I know of one academic paper involving the autonomous assembly of trusses, so there must be more.

Btw, for those playing with the new strut, would a half scale one for smaller craft be useful? I tried to apply tweakscale but it doesn't work with struts.

There used to be a docking-strut, for me it was the most usable, especially with IR. You only placed the end points in the hanger and could connect/disconnect them during flight (also connect to endpoints on other ships once docked). I really like the idea of "firing" a strut out but if you can't aim it then you're in the Hanger guessing where it'll hit when your ship has launched and the robotics extended/adjusted, when you attach between endpoints that isn't an issue. Edited May 25, 2014 by Darren9

[Kolago]

Quantum Strut Guns are very useful for stiffening crafts after docking. With IR and Quantum Struts I have the problem of breaking part connections (nodes). This can be a problem of KerbalJointReinforcement that I have installed. Ned's further investigation.

[ZodiusInfuser]

Neat. So once those struts are staged, they disappear right? No extraneous part count? (Yes, I'm a little OCD about part counts.)

I haven't played with the struts yet but do they have a Disable Staging tweakable? That'd be...nice. Avoid staging spam, just assign them to an action group instead.

Essentially yea. The stubs stay around but as I mentioned a few pages back, once you reload/change scene they will be gone from your craft. There is no tweakable for doing that, however if people would prefer them not to appear in the staging window then I can look into changing it. This just happened to be the default behaviour

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I've now given both QS and DS a go. In terms of usability DS is far better since it gives you precise control over where the struts are formed. Unfortunately from my testing the connection appeared extremely weak. I'm not sure if this is by design or because it has not been updated to 0.23.5's new joint code. It also has the limitation that it doesn't create a bi-directional connection between parts, allowing one DS to receive a strut, but also emit one to another attachment point . To me it seems there should be separate "shooters" and "targets".

If people want to give it a try the forum page is here (note that Spaceport is the only download for it, so may disappear in 5 days )

[neo6060]

1. Are you planning on making motorized versions of the u joint like connections.

2.When will the "athlere" style parts be available, because they look like the coolest thing ever.

Love the parts and keep up the good work.

[AntiMatter001]

zodius what happens if this does eventually overtake IR (in parts wise i don't think in mod wise) will sirkut still hewlp you out with programming and stuff if need be? i'd really hate for this to die and i'd also hate for IR to be dead

[ZodiusInfuser]

1. Are you planning on making motorized versions of the u joint like connections.

2.When will the "athlere" style parts be available, because they look like the coolest thing ever.

Love the parts and keep up the good work.

If there's a real demand for having controlled versions of the uncontrolled pivotrons then I'll consider it. As for the athlete style parts, these are next on my plan since much of their visual style is based on parts I've already done. That being said, there is much I want to rework on them so it won't be a quick process.

zodius what happens if this does eventually overtake IR (in parts wise i don't think in mod wise) will sirkut still help you out with programming and stuff if need be? i'd really hate for this to die and i'd also hate for IR to be dead

That is not going to happen. Treat this as a separate Github branch to Infernal Robotics, where I'm working on new parts and features that will eventually get merged back into the official IR release.

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On an unrelated point, would anyone have any interest in taking the Docking Struts mod and modifying it to fit in with some of the plans I have for Infernal Robotics? I have an idea of what I want to model, but don't have the time to adapt the existing mod to my needs. Specifically I would like to have the target functionality be separate from the strut module, and have it use the newer joint code so it can have similar strength to the standard struts. Thanks

[ZodiusInfuser]

Spent a bit of time with the struts again today. Made a half scale variant (with a weaker connection and shorter range) for use on smaller robotic assemblies.

I also created a model for a reuseable strut that will eventually make use of the Docking Strut plugin (once modified). I haven't had chance to get it working with the plugin as-is yet though, so am just using the same config as the other struts for now.

I've modelled it so that the main side looks like it has the cable rolled up either side of it, with them being launched out of the centre as a single unit. There's a number of ways this could become a solid cable for those questioning the realism of such a part (e.g shape memory alloy as the cable itself, electro-permanent magnets binding the two cables together at various points along its length etc). The other side would act as a receptical, with visual markings allowing the main side to "target" it.