[WIP] MSI's Infernal Robotics - Model Rework (v02 Pre-Release Beta)

[Naf5000]

Good to see this isn't dead! If you can get these parts to work with that Goodwill plugin it will make things much simpler on our end. Just be sure you don't burn yourself out trying; these parts would be worth a page or two in the VAB.

And Sirkut, as much as it's been said before, you did good work with the original IR parts. The only reason people refer to them as ugly is because they clash with most other KSP parts. If you put them with some of the SRI parts, they'd blend much better. It's a stylistic problem, not a quality problem.

[Camacha]

Edit: maybe you can use goodspeed areospaces plugin? It allows you to change part size on right click and would help with the part/size clutter! Here's the link http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/72567

Dear deity, I have seen that thread, but never realised it was something like that!

[ZodiusInfuser]

Dear deity, I have seen that thread, but never realised it was something like that!

It is kind of hidden among the custom parts on offer. I have contacted Gaius though, and that persuaded him to adapt the plugin to remove the 2 node limitation! Although most IR parts just have 2 nodes (plus surface attach) there are a few exceptions. I will experiment tonight after work and see if can be made to handle robotics parts. Hopefully it should, but I don't know what his plugin is doing under the hood.

This could also be massively useful for the telescopic piston too! We'll see though.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/72567-0-23-Goodspeed-Aerospace-Parts-More-tweaking-less-memory?p=1043860&viewfull=1#post1043860

Edited March 26, 2014 by ZodiusInfuser
Added link

[smunisto]

When can we expect this rework to be downloadable? I'd love to try IR, but I think a future update with the reworked models will break all craft.

[sirkut]

When can we expect this rework to be downloadable? I'd love to try IR, but I think a future update with the reworked models will break all craft.

Not if we use different part names in the CFG. Then you could just install both packs side by side. Then as you end craft flights you can slowly remove the older version.

[smunisto]

I already tried it today, but I am slightly more inclined to using the rework, being inline with stock and all.

So the question about the DL still stands

[Boamere]

Um, ok. I may need to contact Gaius and see if a special variant could be made for IR. I'll investigate. That sounds to me like its just a hardcoded restriction.

Sounds good, really glad glad I could help! (ish)

I hope it works! good luck

[BudgetHedgehog]

Heads up - latest Godspeed size tweak plugin has been released. Multiple nodes, maintain height on rescale.. fingers crossed!

[J.Random]

New models look great! One practical nuance: it seems they're completely symmetrical and monotonous. I fail to see any markings for, say, rotatron's "zero angle" or piston's "outward" direction indication on screenshots, which is crucial in craft design. Old parts have these (maybe not exactly intuitive, but after a couple of attempts I could predict which "subpart" would stay put and which one would move in which direction), new ones need it as well.

[ZodiusInfuser]

New models look great! One practical nuance: it seems they're completely symmetrical and monotonous. I fail to see any markings for, say, rotatron's "zero angle" or piston's "outward" direction indication on screenshots, which is crucial in craft design. Old parts have these (maybe not exactly intuitive, but after a couple of attempts I could predict which "subpart" would stay put and which one would move in which direction), new ones need it as well.

I don't have markings for the examples you've given, but I do have markings for which side of a part is the fixed, and which is the moving end. These will be identical across parts and textured to be visually distinct. I will look into adding direction markings for some of the rotatrons etc.

[StevenRS11]

Been quietly watching this for a while now, and getting super excited. Now all we need is some sort of artificial muscle part, and we can make anything!

[NoMrBond]

I don't have markings for the examples you've given, but I do have markings for which side of a part is the fixed, and which is the moving end. These will be identical across parts and textured to be visually distinct. I will look into adding direction markings for some of the rotatrons etc.

It would be quite nice if we could specify child meshes as a VAB indicator, allowing for custom node sizes/shapes and things like floating indicators which would only show while you're holding a part in the VAB/SPH so you could have things like an open/activated/travel ghost for the part

[ZodiusInfuser]

It would be quite nice if we could specify child meshes as a VAB indicator, allowing for custom node sizes/shapes and things like floating indicators which would only show while you're holding a part in the VAB/SPH so you could have things like an open/activated/travel ghost for the part

I'm not sure I fully get what you mean, but something like the RCS Build Aid arrows for robotics parts would be absolutely brilliant! Coders get on that .

On an unrelated note, I had some time this weekend to work on some new parts.

For a while now I've been meaning to create some structural parts for ships and stations to use for housing robotic assemblies, sort of like this:

(Reckon this is 1.25m engines in a 3.75m enclosure?)

Here's my current WIP on such parts:

These are 1.25m trusses that are designed to house either 2, 3 or 4 robotic assembles, consisting of either standard or ATHLETE style limbs. These came about primarily because of my recent obsession with fitting things inside of KW Rocketry's fairings . I hope to continue with these over the coming weeks, and makes some 2.5m (and maybe 3.75m) versions too!

[Kanddak]

Beautiful! I can't wait.

Suggestion: Hinges between two 2.5m plates. I've been creating something like this using IR's hinges, but the alignment is a little difficult to get right because they surface attach. (I've been using such an arrangement to unload surface base modules from a lander)

[smunisto]

Oh my God, YES! These are exactly what is needed to launch proper satellites without the need of funny mid-section 0.625 parts to collapse hinges and trusses within 1.25m or so in size.

However, making the root parts(with hinges), would require you to make 1.25m, 2 and 3.25m versions of hollow stack sections, just like the ones you showcased, but without the hinges. For elongating the initial trusses and hiding them within the stack too.

Also, something I would suggest is leaving space "between" the truss and the actual walls(maybe making the truss smaller), so that radially attached parts on the trusses can enter within the body too. One example are Gigantor Solar Panels, which is probably the thing these parts would be most used for - satellites.

Also, I have a question - you are working solely on models, right? You don't have anything to do with the code?

And when you release this pack it will just be a substitute for the original parts (or to be used alongside with them).

Asking, because right now the original mod's code is being redone due to the new joint system and wondered if that would affect your development cycle and release date too.

Edited April 7, 2014 by smunisto

[ZodiusInfuser]

Beautiful! I can't wait.

Suggestion: Hinges between two 2.5m plates. I've been creating something like this using IR's hinges, but the alignment is a little difficult to get right because they surface attach. (I've been using such an arrangement to unload surface base modules from a lander)

Could you show me what you've tried to create so far? I've always thought that 2.5m robotics parts would be too large for anyone to really consider using.

Oh my God, YES! These are exactly what is needed to launch proper satellites without the need of funny mid-section 0.625 parts to collapse hinges and trusses within 1.25m or so in size.

However, making the root parts(with hinges), would require you to make 1.25m, 2 and 3.25m versions of hollow stack sections, just like the ones you showcased, but without the hinges. For elongating the initial trusses and hiding them within the stack too.

Thanks. I should clarify that in those shots there are separate truss and adapter segments, allowing any length of section to be made:

As you observe, this would mean I need to design and create 2.5m and (possibly) 3.75m versions, but I think it's important to offer that flexibility.

Also, something I would suggest is leaving space "between" the truss and the actual walls(maybe making the truss smaller), so that radially attached parts on the trusses can enter within the body too. One example are Gigantor Solar Panels, which is probably the thing these parts would be most used for - satellites.

There are a lot of design constraints with these parts that aren't apparent from the pictures, relating to how they fit in with the rest of the planned lineup. I'm not sure that I would be able to modify them as you suggest without breaking some of these constraints. Perhaps you could show me specifically what you had in mind?

Also, I have a question - you are working solely on models, right? You don't have anything to do with the code?

And when you release this pack it will just be a substitute for the original parts (or to be used alongside with them).

Asking, because right now the original mod's code is being redone due to the new joint system and wondered if that would affect your development cycle and release date too.

Yep, that's right. Although I'm a programmer by trade I don't do any coding for KSP. The intention of this pack is ultimately replace the current selection of parts, after a very long transition period where both sets will be available. The only effect the new joint system has for me right now is that I can't test the robotic parts in-game, delaying their release. That being said, the delay gives me the opportunity to work on parts that have been on my to-do list for a while (such as these ship trusses), and ultimately produce an even bigger release!

[smunisto]

Great,

sorry, now that I look again at your pictures - I do notice it's a modular design, not one piece.

And I tried drawing what I mean on top of one of your pictures, but the isometric perspective defies my Paint drawing abilities

Perhaps if you can't understand the explanation that will follow, you can P.M. me with a top-down view of this picture.

Anyways.

The trusses(or the walls of the modular section, as the trusses probably have some standard that they comply to with regard to the whole mod) have to be small enough, so that they leave some truss <-> wall edge space. This gap would serve as a buffer space, which radially attached parts on the trusses (solar panels for example) would use so that they do not collide with the walls when the trusses retract and are stored inside the segment.

That's the best I can do as explanation without my professional drawing skills

[Green Skull]

Need. Glorious. Robot. Parts...

[CaptainKipard]

ZodiusInfuser those Phoenix-ish parts look great but will they actually support high thrust without bending?

Also stop teasing already... What's taking so long?

[Guest]

Maybe the fact ARM broke Infernal Robotics? It's hard to rework parts for a plugin that doesn't work. Figuring out the problem with the new joints will probably take a while, given Squad's track record with documenting their stuff...

[ZodiusInfuser]

ZodiusInfuser those Phoenix-ish parts look great but will they actually support high thrust without bending?

That will be heavily dependent on whether the joint improvements that ARM has brought can be leveraged by IR. I was thinking these would be more suitable for low thrust engines such as those in the NearFuture pack.

Also stop teasing already... What's taking so long?

Honestly, this weekend has been the first in about a month where I've been able to properly sit down and come up with designs. What Dragon01 says is also true (although I'm not involved in the fix for it), having a broken mod means I can't test certain things I was planning to, but as I said earlier, I've got plenty on my to-do list to be getting on with . For instance these PHX parts have been on my list since December.

[BudgetHedgehog]

ZodiusInfuser those Phoenix-ish parts look great but will they actually support high thrust without bending?

Hooray for Quantum Struts!

[ZodiusInfuser]

Do they still work in 0.23.5?

[BudgetHedgehog]

Quantum Struts? I believe they do. I haven't tested them myself, but I can later on today. If you do want them anyway, I'd install Quantum Struts Continued - tech tree-integration and KAS compatible. They worked fine in 0.23 (mind you, so did the old ones).

[Kanddak]

Could you show me what you've tried to create so far? I've always thought that 2.5m robotics parts would be too large for anyone to really consider using.

Here you are: http://imgur.com/a/ncyF0