125 tons to 850km orbit without asparagus

[Captain Sierra]

So . . . I need to orbit this:

It's around 125 tons and it's freakin huge. KJR will definitely be installed for this launch.

Now, my old .21.1 era med-heavy asparagus lifter could easily put 80+ tons to LKO and my super heavy lifter could do this in a heartbeat,but I've been trying to stay away from asparagus. Don't ask why, it's a personal choice. That gantry's structural frame is over 420 parts welded into one (thx UbioZur!). All in all, I've trimmed it down to under 100 parts but it still gives me 15-20 FPS on the pad, so the lifter has to be minimalistic. I do have the capability to cluster stage; the most powerful one I can do, IIRC, generates ~2600 kN of thrust, give or take about 50.

I'm more than willing to use 2.5m URM core boosters so I can make an asparagus-like lifter, but I'd end up onion staging it.

So, how do I put 130 tons (for safety margins, and because the upper stage has to remain with the gantry, no probe core) into an 850km orbit without asparagus?

[mhoram]

Perhaps this is an idea:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55615-Payload-Fraction-Challenge?p=746619&viewfull=1#post746619

[G'th]

It might be easier, if only on your computer, to just send that up in parts rather than in one long piece.

[Captain Sierra]

Perhaps this is an idea:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55615-Payload-Fraction-Challenge?p=746619&viewfull=1#post746619

Sorry, I'd like my PC NOT to melt thank you!

It might be easier' date=' if only on your computer, to just send that up in parts rather than in one long piece.[/quote']

That was the original plan, which included multidocking, but after some testing it was concluded that it would be easier to launch all at once with a single piece rather than try and dock it.

[Tex_NL]

If you don't mind installing another mod you might want to consider Extraplanetary launchpads. You can launch the required materials to orbit in multiple launches and build that thing in orbit as a single piece.

[Captain Sierra]

I've used EPL before and never really liked it.

Now, everyone bear in mind that if it comes to a case of this request is impossible without melting my CPU, I can always break out my .23 modernized version of Temstar's Supernova SHLV asparagus rocket, which can get the job done. It's not the desired outcome but if it works . . .

[ddenis]

I'd just use HyperEdit and teleport it to the orbit.

http://www.kerbaltekaerospace.com/

[Taki117]

You could also get Orbital Construction Redux which does the same thing, but much easier.

[Captain Sierra]

I'd just use HyperEdit and teleport it to the orbit.

http://www.kerbaltekaerospace.com/

This is sort of my last resort as I'd like to orbit it the 'legit' way first, but if that proves beyond my capacity to do without unbearable lag, this is in fact my plan B.

You could also get Orbital Construction Redux which does the same thing, but much easier.

Somone is actually remaking this, or at least making a new one that does the same thing but a bit better. I have my eye on it. That said, using this requires me to build a second station I'd probably only use once. What I'm launching is my orbital construction yard.

[Tex_NL]

Somone is actually remaking this, or at least making a new one that does the same thing but a bit better. I have my eye on it. That said, using this requires me to build a second station I'd probably only use once. What I'm launching is my orbital construction yard.

There's your answer: launch the core of your construction yard and use that to construct the rest in orbit.

[Taki117]

Somone is actually remaking this, or at least making a new one that does the same thing but a bit better. I have my eye on it. That said, using this requires me to build a second station I'd probably only use once. What I'm launching is my orbital construction yard.

You wouldn't happen to have a link would you?

[Captain Sierra]

You wouldn't happen to have a link would you?

Gimmie a little bit to dig it up. I remember reading something about it in addon development. Watch this post for edits.

EDIT: This was the dev thread that I gave a partial readthrough the other day.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56842-WIP-Orbital-Manufacturing

Edited January 19, 2014 by Captain Sierra

[Captain Sierra]

So, testing reveals that this is effectively impossible on my current install. Gotta reinstall KJR so my lifter doesn't snap in half in the gravity turn (this was a test to get to a few thousand meters, it has nowhere near the dV for orbit).

[kzauner]

I'v one simple 85t launcher (100km) consisting of 2 ascend stages, the upper Maindail + 3-fold symmetry Mainsails, the lower also Mainsail-Core and 6-fold symmetry around Mainsails too. Lower-stage is (1 Orange + an 320) *7 , AFAIR, 2nd stage only Orange *4. If you use just 2 such constructions, one at each end?

Don't have a craft-file at hand, it is somewhere in some gamefolder, and I didn't even remember how i named it. I just remeber, because I wanted to go for a 100t launcher, and fell a little bit short.

[MaverickSawyer]

Use a clustered 5 meter stage from Nova Punch.

[Captain Sierra]

Use a clustered 5 meter stage from Nova Punch.

Dont have NP. It's too much crap I don't need. Now, I'm willing to go redownload KW (though I try to keep my main install stockalike).

[DeMatt]

I tend to agree with those who say, "assemble it in orbit". Each of those C-shaped segments seems to be a unit in and of itself; stick one on a rocket, fire up a bunch of copies, then add "end cap" modules. If you later decide that your existing construction gantry is "too small", why, take off an endcap, fire up some more C-segments, and put the endcap back on.

[DisarmingBaton5]

Very, very carefully.

Seriously, consider either onion or KW. I do not see any way to get that up with serial staging otherwise.

You could, of course, stack an absurd number of Mainsail stages atop each other using welding plugin!

[Giggleplex777]

You can try to use the Munshine IX to lift it and a 30 ton tug to orbit, but your ship looks so unbalanced and big that you'll probably have a lot of trouble fly it.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/63050-0-23-MUNSHINE-LIFTERS-new-release-new-lifters-5-165-tons-to-orbit-Oh-my%21

165 tons to 80km orbit, 192 parts. No fuel crossfeed.

Another alternative is to launch it in to a low orbit first, and then send a tug to push it higher.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Giggleplex777

[Vonar]

850 km is a bit of a high orbit to reach for any launch vehicle let alone one that can launch 130 plus tons. Have you considered launching the payload into a lower orbit, and then using a space tug of some kind to pull it into a higher one?

[SSSPutnik]

This may do it, but it uses KW Rocketry and some minor asparagus, sorry. It'll lift the weight ok.

https://moc-per.micromine.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=5ed331ff842b92d05754b893b0387a49

[DerekL1963]

850 km is a bit of a high orbit to reach for any launch vehicle let alone one that can launch 130 plus tons. Have you considered launching the payload into a lower orbit, and then using a space tug of some kind to pull it into a higher one?

In a sentence of ten characters or more - this. Just getting 130 tons into orbit is a big task, and asking the same booster to get to 850km? Redonkulous. Doing so with something as inefficient as serial or onion staging? Double plus redonkulous.

[Clouds]

It's probably nothing you haven't considered already, but just in case:

If you have a stack that can SSTO, you just need enough to sufficiently lift/dilute the payload. I like 2.5 orange tanks with a Mainsail, or 1 orange tank with a Skipper.

The tip is, counter-intuitively, I found I needed less parts making a lifter with more stacks of lesser payload (the Skipper) because the strutting needed to keep the more fragile multi-tank Mainsail stacks intact more than offset the fewer stacks needed. My heaviest launch to orbit looked like a cake layer with a station bolted on top, everything strutted to that station to keep vertical flexing well-dampened. Asparagus or onion can eke out more dV. (What's the difference? Is asparagus two-by-two and onion radius-sequential?)

That strategy works especially well with wide, flat payloads, which act as their own structural lift-plate.

With the physics time setting at minimum, it was still controllable although it took 5x-ish longer in real time than gameworld time.

[numerobis]

Call me crazy, but that looks like you could fit a plane inside, rather than trying to fit this on a rocket. As long as you can get the thrust roughly centered, you'd be fine; and the lift is easy to center.

A jet gets you to a 75x40 orbit, and you'll need to burn another 750 m/s from there, so you need about 16t of fuel (the half-jumbo) for a small cluster of nukes (say 4). That puts you at 147t.

To lift that you'll need 12 turbojets, 8 Mk3 fuselages, 173 intakes, and ~100 wing parts. If you copy the ram intake part and increase the area and mass, you might get a reasonable part count.