The HELO challenge

[Fengist]

The HELO challenge

I've seen lots of aircraft challenges and even some VTOL craft but, at least not lately, a helo challenge. Having been experimenting with a few lately, I've come to realize just how much fun, and how much of a challenge they are to fly. Digging into Wikipedia I found a number of 'records' people have set with these flying machines and, any time I see a record regarding flying or rocketry, I think... humm, can I do that in KSP? So, I thought I'd share.

Your challenge is to develop a multi-role helicopter using the Firespitter mod and complete any or as many of the tasks listed below as you can/desire with that single (flexible) design. You may submit multiple designs (please limit this) but the goal is to do as many as possible with the single design. Some of these will be rather easy, some (lifting 40 tons which can be done btw), VERY difficult. You need not complete them all with a single launch but, if you're particularly masochistic, have at it.

I'm not certain what effect FAR has on helos since I don't use it but if you guys believe it should warrant a separate category, say so.

Design rules:

After some long thought, I realized that it would be nearly impossible to complete all the tasks with one fixed design. A heavy lift helo probably wouldn't do well in an endurance flight. I also have realized that aircraft and helo manufacturers create different aircraft variations around the same frame in order to perform different tasks. In order to do all of these tasks, Kerbals would need that same flexibility. Therefore, I've relaxed the design criteria a good bit.

You are allowed to make modifications to your basic design provided the basic frame shape remains unchanged (or mostly so). Some examples I'd allow:

Adding or removing rotors or relocating them.

Changing rotor types.

Exchanging a fuel tank for a fuselage of the same size and basic shape.

Adding or removing drop tanks.

The basic rule of thumb here is: Your engineers created a frame. Stick to that basic frame design and rearrange it as you need to complete each task. If you have any doubts as to whether a change is acceptable, simply post a before and after shot and I'll give you my opinion.

The big rules:

You may use any mod that has 'reasonable' capability. The spirit of this challenge is to mimic reality, not change the laws of physics. No OP'd mods with infinite fuel. No infigliding, etc.

You MUST have a pilot, no drones.

You may use various aerodynamic wings in your design however, your primary source of lift must come from a rotary wing(s). You must take off and land vertically, or at least mostly so. If yours looks more like a plane than a helo, rethink your design.

You may use jet or propeller engines to provide forward propulsion. Please be judicious with this should you even get it to work. The purpose here is to fly like a helo, not an aircraft. You must still take off and land vertically. To clarify. If you can shut the rotors off and still get and remain airborne using your other means of propulsion, you're flying an airplane.

You may use a VTOL with rotating wings (similar to the Osprey aircraft). However, you must STILL take off and land vertically. No beating the prop blades against the runway (well, not intentionally anyway).

Mechjeb can only be used on the non-stop circumnavigation challenge. I like Jeb but I discovered months ago, it was having all the fun. This challenge is about the fun of flying, not watching Jeb fly.

If you think you might be disqualified, you probably will be as I may add silly rules later that I haven't thought of.

The spirit of this challenge is the overlying rule. Take Kerbal rotary wing aircraft and push them to their, and you to your, limits. Test yourself and your design, not the mod. That should sum it up.

Categories

You may enter both categories with separate designs should you wish.

Propeller Heads - Tasks must be completed using some form of liquid fuel. I will allow electric props for forward propulsion but the main rotors must use liquid fuel. NO REACTORS! (Yes, Kethane is liquid if you can get an electric helo to run off it's generators. In this case I'd allow full electric rotors as it needs refueling eventually.)

Tesla Fanatics - Due to the somewhat OP'd nature of devices like nuclear reactors, electric helos have some distinct advantages and thus, a separate category. Note: If you're going full electric you must stay full electric. No Jets, Rockets or other forms of liquid fuel (or gases!).

Titles and distinctions:

Precision award - Land on the KSC helo pad. (The one on the roof top. No, it's not as easy as it looks.)

The Jet Ranger distinction - Deliver at least 2 Kerbals to the Island landing strip and return to KSC. (Kerbals must exit the Helo and remain on the island) (in honor of the Bell Jet Ranger, one of the most popular helo's in history)

The Chinook award - Deliver at least 6 Kerbals to the KSC2 base. No need to return to KSC. It's assumed you'll be refueled there for a return trip.(Kerbals must exit the Helo and remain at KSC2) (In honor of the Boeing CH-47 and all it's variants)

The Sikorsky award - Lift a payload of at least 10 tons from KSC, deliver it to KSC2. No need to return to KSC, it's assumed you'll get refueled there. (In honor of the Sikorsky S-64 Skycrane) (If you feel so inclined, you may use the Kerbal Attachment System mod. I can't get mine to work since .23)

The Kolochenko award - Lift a payload of at least 40 tons from KSC, deliver it to the island runway, drop it and return to KSC (In honor of Vasily Kolochenko who attained an altitude of 2,255 m with a 40 tonne payload)

The Eggington award - Achive a speed in excess of 400.87 m/s overland. (In honor of John Trevor Egginton the current helo speed record holder)

The Ferry award - Circumnavigate Kerbin non-stop. Takeoff from KSC, travel around the globe and land back at KSC. (runway landing not required... it's a helicopter right?) (In honor of Robert G. Ferry the current distance record holder 3,561.55 km. Kerbals can do this, right?)

The Kasprowicz distinction - Complete a circumnavigation in less than 6 hours. (In honor of Scott Kasprowicz who completed a circumnavigation of the Earth with an average speed of 136.7 m/s. Yes, he landed numerous times and so can you if you need.)

The Boulet award - Achieve an altitude in excess of 12,442 m (In honor of Jean Boulet who holds the current altitude record)

The Church award - Maintain a level flying altitude of at least 11,010 m (In honor of James K. Church who holds that current record)

I am da Vinci - Complete all of the above tasks with a single design(is it possible?) (In honor of Leonardo di Vinci and his rather unique aircraft designs).

For more info on these awards and helos in general: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter

As for whether I've done all these or not? No, not all. I can say this though. It's definitely possible to get 60 tons of helo off the ground and up to at least 2,000m. I can say a circumnavigation is definitely possible but I don't want to give away any secrets. As for altitude, that I'm not positive what max is. I know the 20 ton I'm testing can hold 5k easily. That's why it's a challenge, creativity. Show me what I haven't thot of.

I'll reserve the first spot for my own entry as I work on these.

Propeller Heads - Because wings should be ROUND!

leafty - Precision award | Jet Ranger distinction | Eggington award | The Ferry award | The Kasprowicz distinction | The Boulet award | The Church award | The Chinook award (with HeadChopper)

Fengist with the UH-1 and variants - Precision award | The Kolochenko award | The Jet Ranger distinction | The Boulet award | Chinook award

Darren9 - The Jet Ranger distinction | Precision award | The Eggington award | The Church award

Deathsou with the UberMegaWTF-Copter - The Kolochenko award

nli2work with... wow, I dunno, but it looks like a helicopter - Precision Award

Cranium - Precision Award (NON- FIRESPITTER!!)

Tesla fanatics - Who needs gas. I have VOLTAGE! (Yes, Tesla patented something that looked very much like a VTOL) -

Northstar1989 with HELO Model A - The Precision award | The Jet Ranger distinction | The Eddington Award | The Boulet Award | The Church Award

Maikie_G with Teslacopter Mk. 1 - The Precision award | The Jet Ranger distinction

Edited June 20, 2014 by Fengist

[Fengist]

Since I'm the OP, I'll be posting here as I complete various tasks. Since I'm mostly doing this real-time, I reserve the right to completely redesign my helo as I see fit. If I do so, I'll completely erase and restart my tasks.

And, I did so. I found out my first design had a huge flaw when it came to fuel consumption. As I use 2 separate fuel tanks I discovered that the amount of fuel consumed from each definitely depends on rotor placement. As I consumed fuel the helo become totally unstable and I had to keep moving fuel around. SO... I redesigned and have restarted. Thus, I present my current attempted design, the UH-1

Still not easy to do this. - Even though my redesign is more stable, it's still a huge pain to land on this thing.

UH-1H - A heavy lift version of my lighter one. Here's 40 tons delivered safely to the Island

UH-1 - 2 Kerbals delivered to the island runway.

UH-1H - Here's an altitude attempt that was barely good enough. I still have no idea what this thing can hover at, I was running out of fuel and bouncing up and down like a pogo stick.

UH-1E (aka LagFest) - THIS is what it took to get 15 tons off the ground, and barely, with 2 electric rotors. 288 parts! And, I had to pull the batteries off to get the thing off the ground... in CARGO mode! While this was mostly a test to see if electrics had the potential to do endurance I went ahead and redid the Jet Ranger anyway. I dunno if it's me but ummm, I think Spitfire needs to SERIOUSLY rework the performance on these props. And... this is why I've opened up an electric helo category so that reactors can be used.

FINALLY! UH-1TFR - Made it to KSC2 with 6 Kerbals. And the instant I hit the ground KSP crashed to desktop. Luckily, I had shut everything down before it did. I had to pack on copious amounts of fuel and strap on a couple of turbofans but, I made it. And yep, I checked. No way this thing would fly without the rotors spinning. Drops like a rock.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Fengist

[Deathsoul097]

Okay, here are few things I would like to say about your challenge:

First of all, nice! This is a mostly well thought out challenge, and the tasks are very interesting.

However: If by the alternate KSC you mean KSC2, you do realise that is on another continent, and about a quarter of the way around the planet, right? That is a long way to fly on a heli. I'd say if any do the ones involving KSC2 will use a design similar to the osprey. Also, to complete your circumnavigation, all you have to do is fly a helo or VTOL retrograde on the sunny side at around 170ms. (That will be a challenge in itself though, considering how much power and how many rotors it will need to achieve that speed with electricity.)

Other than those minor discrepancies, well done! I would suggest you create a score system for each of the goals, and then divide the total score by the amount of designs used to gain said score. That should encourage the general theme of this challenge, along with pretty much forcing people to create a single reliable design for everything, but only if they want the highest score they can possibly ever get. (Of course, ATM, with the way this challenge is laid out there would be a set max score) You may also want to set up things like your score for the payload task is however much your design can carry , divided by the amount of time it took in minutes to deliver it and return.

[leafty]

Managed to bring a overly complicated helicopter to the island and back (kinda...) and to land the thing on the helipad.

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[Fengist]

Okay, here are few things I would like to say about your challenge:

First of all, nice! This is a mostly well thought out challenge, and the tasks are very interesting.

However: If by the alternate KSC you mean KSC2, you do realise that is on another continent, and about a quarter of the way around the planet, right? That is a long way to fly on a heli. I'd say if any do the ones involving KSC2 will use a design similar to the osprey. Also, to complete your circumnavigation, all you have to do is fly a helo or VTOL retrograde on the sunny side at around 170ms. (That will be a challenge in itself though, considering how much power and how many rotors it will need to achieve that speed with electricity.)

Other than those minor discrepancies, well done! I would suggest you create a score system for each of the goals, and then divide the total score by the amount of designs used to gain said score. That should encourage the general theme of this challenge, along with pretty much forcing people to create a single reliable design for everything, but only if they want the highest score they can possibly ever get. (Of course, ATM, with the way this challenge is laid out there would be a set max score) You may also want to set up things like your score for the payload task is however much your design can carry , divided by the amount of time it took in minutes to deliver it and return.

First, thanks! I try not to make boring or single minded challenges. If you like this one, be sure to click the purple EVE challenge in my sig. That's the other challenge I started.

Yes, KSC2 is a good distance away. I'm pretty sure that getting 6 Kerbals there will be doable. Hauling 10 additional tons may require some work in the design stage but I think it's doable as well. I don't know if mine can make it. You'll notice the large clamp on the bottom of mine. I have lifted 10 tons off the runway with it and, using some creativity, dropped it from 2k altitude with 8 radial chutes. It landed unscathed. I didn't say you had to LAND the helo at KSC2 with the cargo, but the cargo should arrive at KSC2 intact.

Circumnavigating will be a real challenge, especially a non-stop. I know mine can't. As it stands, my design, even in cargo throttle, only reaches about 120m/s. I didn't say you had to use electrics for ALL the challenges. But, it's an option. And for at least the one circumnavigation challenge I specifically noted that it doesn't have to be non-stop. It took Scott Kasprowicz 11 days 7 hours and 5 minutes to make his circumnavigation. And, if I'm not mistake, the old record holder even rented a ship to land his Jet Ranger on in the middle of the ocean in order to refuel (if that gives you any ideas).

I thought about a scoring system but I think those are better reserved for specific challenges, like how much cargo can you lift and hold at 2k altitude. Since this challenge has such a wide variety of tasks, a scoring system could over-complicate things. That and I've seen some scoring challenges where one person out-thinks the challenge creator, racks up a HUGE score and then nobody wants to try to beat them (I've done that at least once). While I do participate in scoring challenges, I find that I rarely go for the points anyway and instead go for a creative solution to solving the challenge. The last challenge I did I scored a ONE. But I was thrilled with my design. Rather than pitting people against each other, I prefer to pit people against themselves and the environment. Moar drama that way .

But thanks for the ideas. If you have any more, just let me know. Always glad to listen to well though out suggestions.

[Fengist]

Managed to bring a overly complicated helicopter to the island and back (kinda...) and to land the thing on the helipad.

That was fast work. So... did you get that rockomax to the island?

[leafty]

That was fast work. So... did you get that rockomax to the island?

Nope, but like you, I didn't notice the cargo throttle option (and docking to that is very difficult to achieve). I'll have a try with a pre-attached payload.

[Fengist]

Nope, but like you, I didn't notice the cargo throttle option (and docking to that is very difficult to achieve). I'll have a try with a pre-attached payload.

Yep, it's nearly impossible to land on a clamp. Found that out the hard way myself too. Hell, it's hard enough for me to land without smashing things when I'm not trying to be precise.

Great work tho. Put up a new post rather than editing your old one if you accomplish any more, that way I'll be sure to see it and add it.

[Darren9]

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With this little tilting blade design I've been on the VAB, at 774Km/h in level flight, 11582m forward flight altitude and delivered 2 Kerbals to the dirt runway. Oh, and the blades never clip anything

The Jet Ranger distinction

Precision award

The Eggington award

The Church award

I'm considering a nuclear-electric multi-prop heavy lifter - would that be considered as an infinite fuel?

[Fengist]

With this little tilting blade design I've been on the VAB, at 774Km/h in level flight, 11582m forward flight altitude and delivered 2 Kerbals to the dirt runway. Oh, and the blades never clip anything

The Jet Ranger distinction

Precision award

The Eggington award

The Church award

I'm considering a nuclear-electric multi-prop heavy lifter - would that be considered as an infinite fuel?

I like it! Add some cargo and it IS and Osprey.

I'm not sure which nuclear power you're referring to. If it's the one in HOME then I'd say no, it's not infinite. If I'm not mistaken, it eventually runs out of jooce. Technically, thermoelectrics would give infinite fuel but they're a stock part (god forbid you should try to put enough on a helo to power those electric rotors tho. My last twin rotor solar/thermoelectric had over 250 parts.). My concern regarding infinite fuel is more related to modding modules to do things the creator never intended or using mods that are overpowered by Kerbal standards. One example I would allow is Kethane. All of the tanks come empty. I'd have NO problem if you modded one to be full of Kethane on launch, the creator intended it to eventually hold Kethane anyway and modding one to be pre-filled is simply saving time. Modding it so it never runs out of Kethane, I'd have a problem with. Hope that clarifies.

[Fengist]

I've made a change to the rules that may affect the way you guys who have already completed this think. I did some serious thought on anyone getting all of the tasks done with one design and came to the conclusion that it would be mostly impossible. To allow more freedom and a chance to become da Vinci, I'm opening up the design criteria a good bit.

[YYismyname]

The HELO challenge

The Boulet award - Achieve an altitude in excess of 12,442 km (In honor of Jean Boulet who holds the current altitude record)

The Church award - Maintain a level flying altitude of at least 11,010 km (In honor of James K. Church who holds that current record)

How in the name are we suppose to get that high??? 12,442,000 meters! and 11,010,000 meters! That is in space!

[Fengist]

How in the name are we suppose to get that high??? 12,442,000 meters! and 11,010,000 meters! That is in space!

Fixed. It should have read meters. Thanks for pointing this out.

[SkyRender]

Seems like a fun challenge! Incidentally, you may want to actually link the Firespitter Pack in your first post, just in case someone wants to participate but doesn't want to hunt it down on SpacePort manually.

[Fengist]

Seems like a fun challenge! Incidentally, you may want to actually link the Firespitter Pack in your first post, just in case someone wants to participate but doesn't want to hunt it down on SpacePort manually.

Done! Thank you.

[Deathsoul097]

Hmm. I may have gone a little bit OTT on this. I present to you, the "UberMegaWTF-Copter". The finest in in ridiculous engineering, capable of lifting a "hell of a lot" more than 40 tonnes, (About 60 tonnes most likely, considering it hovers, carrying 40 T, at 2/3 throttle. I haven't completed the 40 Tonne challenge yet, but it will be pretty easy, and with over 4000 units of fuel, at ~one unit per second, at about 150 m/s, I am pretty sure I can do a circumnavigation.

NB: The resource list displayed is wrong, as that tank holds approx the same amount of LF as is in my copter, and oxidizer as well.

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Yes, that is twelve Russian Bear motors on there.

Oddly enough, this monstrosity is the most stable and best handling heli I have ever made. Most are decent, but this, this is super smooth. It is really easy to maintain level flight, by just tilting down by about 10-15 degrees, and flying at 2/3 throttle, and a much lower throttle if your not carrying 40 tonnes at the same time.

EDIT:

Gallery updated. I can now lay claim to:

- The Kolochenko award

Edited January 21, 2014 by Deathsoul097

[leafty]

Hmm. I may have gone a little bit OTT on this. I present to you, the "UberMegaWTF-Copter". The finest in in ridiculous engineering, capable of lifting a "hell of a lot" more than 40 tonnes, (About 60 tonnes most likely, considering it hovers, carrying 40 T, at 2/3 throttle. I haven't completed the 40 Tonne challenge yet, but it will be pretty easy, and with over 4000 units of fuel, at ~one unit per second, at about 150 m/s, I am pretty sure I can do a circumnavigation.

NB: The resource list displayed is wrong, as that tank holds approx the same amount of LF as is in my copter, and oxidizer as well.

- snip -

Yes, that is twelve Russian Bear motors on there.

Oddly enough, this monstrosity is the most stable and best handling heli I have ever made. Most are decent, but this, this is super smooth. It is really easy to maintain level flight, by just tilting down by about 10-15 degrees, and flying at 2/3 throttle, and a much lower throttle if your not carrying 40 tonnes at the same time.

I think you can cut the number of rotor in half by using the cargo throttle. You have to bind it to an action group to use it, and it enable you to use the rotors at full power (4 bear rotors are enough to lift 40 tons with that).

[Deathsoul097]

Ah. But here is the thing: One, I wanted it to be the most excessive, ridiculous design I could have made, and two, the heli weighs almost as much as the payload.

[Fengist]

Hmm. I may have gone a little bit OTT on this. I present to you, the "UberMegaWTF-Copter". The finest in in ridiculous engineering, capable of lifting a "hell of a lot" more than 40 tonnes, (About 60 tonnes most likely, considering it hovers, carrying 40 T, at 2/3 throttle. I haven't completed the 40 Tonne challenge yet, but it will be pretty easy, and with over 4000 units of fuel, at ~one unit per second, at about 150 m/s, I am pretty sure I can do a circumnavigation.

NB: The resource list displayed is wrong, as that tank holds approx the same amount of LF as is in my copter, and oxidizer as well.

Yes, that is twelve Russian Bear motors on there.

Oddly enough, this monstrosity is the most stable and best handling heli I have ever made. Most are decent, but this, this is super smooth. It is really easy to maintain level flight, by just tilting down by about 10-15 degrees, and flying at 2/3 throttle, and a much lower throttle if your not carrying 40 tonnes at the same time.

EDIT:

Gallery updated. I can now lay claim to:

- The Kolochenko award

OTT? Oh hell no. That's just good Kerbal engineering there. You ALWAYS plan on something to fail so it's good to have a backup plan... right? Yea, I LOL'd.

[Deathsoul097]

What do you think of the name? Also, now that I think about it, I made a stupid mistake doing this. I could have dropped off bill and bob, and gotten the Jet Ranger distinction as well.

[Fengist]

What do you think of the name? Also, now that I think about it, I made a stupid mistake doing this. I could have dropped off bill and bob, and gotten the Jet Ranger distinction as well.

Name is good but you forgot to add something - UberMegaWTFROFL-Copter.

Nothing is stopping you from doing more of these. I could have packed 2 Kerbals along when I did Kolochenko but. I'm having fun flying these things so I flew back with them. Just post them as you do them and I'll update the leader board.

[Fengist]

I am pretty sure I can do a circumnavigation.

- The Kolochenko award

Oh, and don't count on it. I tried to make KSC2 with 2700 fuel and 2 rotors on a 22 ton and only made it half way.

[Deathsoul097]

Yeah. I noticed that the fuel consumption on the rotors is pretty high. I will have to add a big droptank to the bay, and remove some of the rotors to do it.

[Darren9]

The Kerb-Vinci Experimental Nuclear-Electric Turbo Jet Copter.

Has two medium fission reactors from Near Future Propulsion powering 8 electric rotors and a couple of B9 jets and can raise/lower the wheels to dock onto payloads. I've been on the VAB roof, delivered a 42T payload with 2 Kerbals to the dirt runway, delivered a 10.5T payload with 6 Kerbals to KSC2 and attained 20,000m at 730m/s level flight. It should do a lap of Kerbin in under six hours with an additional fuel payload but I've not tried yet. Unfortunately those particular reactors (the only ones I have in .23) appear to be virtually infinite

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[Fengist]

The Kerb-Vinci Experimental Nuclear-Electric Turbo Jet Copter.

Has two medium fission reactors from Near Future Propulsion powering 8 electric rotors and a couple of B9 jets and can raise/lower the wheels to dock onto payloads. I've been on the VAB roof, delivered a 42T payload with 2 Kerbals to the dirt runway, delivered a 10.5T payload with 6 Kerbals to KSC2 and attained 20,000m at 730m/s level flight. It should do a lap of Kerbin in under six hours with an additional fuel payload but I've not tried yet. Unfortunately those particular reactors (the only ones I have in .23) appear to be virtually infinite

EIGHT electrics? Ok, While completing those tasks is impressive, I'm going to let you be the judge here. Take a look at the shots of my attempt. In particular, my electric one. Count how many solar panels it took me to get 2 of those rotors to work in cargo throttle (and I tried a Kethane generator and even it couldn't keep up) . Then ask yourself one question. Do YOU think that reactor is OP? If not, I'm downloading that puppy.