Ethics of eating alien meat, interstellar carnivores and sentient meals.

[MBobrik]

A few days ago, there was a post about Japanese whale hunting which turned into a debate about health effects of vegetarianism.

The question more important for space travel and possible future interstellar colonization was left largely untouched.

On new worlds, the colonists will find various organisms of varying cognitive capabilities all the way from simple chemical replicators perhaps to beings orders of magnitude smarter than we. So the question is, in terms of ethics, is there a limit of intelligence of your potential food/prey, above which you would not go ?

EDIT : To be clear, we are talking about ethics vs/ levels of intelligence/sentience and nothing else. So assume all the creatures are edible, not endangered, there is no emergency involved, you could always choose eating something else. And also, eating each includes killing it.

Edited January 25, 2014 by MBobrik

[lajoswinkler]

If I can manage to have a nutritious, tasty meal out of some alien plants, I'll resort to them and leave animals alone.

If I must eat animals in order to have such meal, I'd pick those that aren't self-aware and sentient. All rules that apply on Earth, would apply somewhere else. I'm not a monster, so there's nothing new with the rules.

[MC.STEEL]

In general you wouldnt want to eat any alien lifeform before you are sure that it doesent contain any nasty to you(but totaly harmles to itself) chemicles.

Canibalism is a total taboo because you have to get the human meat from somewhere,so its not a matter of eating another creature whe do it all the time,but about the ethics about killing one.

[Themohawkninja]

As long as it tastes good and doesn't kill you, you might as well eat it.

I have no qualms about it.

[Tw1]

As long as there is not going to be in any ecological damage from our harvesting them, and they are shown to not be near human intelligence by rigorous tests, then I'd be fine with it. Assuming eating isn't going to kill me, or get me killed by local people.

[lajoswinkler]

As long as it tastes good and doesn't kill you, you might as well eat it.

I have no qualms about it.

So if you encounter hominid-level creatures, self aware, sentient, using tools, having art, on the level of a typical Neanderthal

you'd kill them and eat them?

Do you think there could be anything even remotely wrong with that?

[Themohawkninja]

So if you encounter hominid-level creatures, self aware, sentient, using tools, having art, on the level of a typical Neanderthal

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/naturelibrary/images/ic/credit/640x395/n/ne/neanderthal/neanderthal_1.jpg

you'd kill them and eat them?

If I'm dying of hunger, and there isn't any other for of sustenance around (including what such creatures could feed me), then yes I would attempt to eat them.

Do you think there could be anything even remotely wrong with that?

No, not really. Would you let yourself die with potential food right in front of you just because the food thinks and talks?

[MBobrik]

No, not really. Would you let yourself die with potential food right in front of you just because the food thinks and talks?

.

So, basically, in case of famine, you would turn on your neighbors. I think people around you should know ...

All rules that apply on Earth, would apply somewhere else. I'm not a monster, so there's nothing new with the rules.

well... so much for nothing being new with the rules...

Edited January 25, 2014 by MBobrik

[Themohawkninja]

.

So, basically, in case of famine, you would turn on your neighbors. I think people around you should know ...

Ignorance is bliss.

[MBobrik]

Ignorance is bliss.

for you. for your potential victims, not so much

[codepoet]

Ignorance is bliss.

Why do you think reference designs for missions to Mars usually keep the colonists together in pairs? If a supply run is lost on launch at least one of the colonists will be able to survive until the next launch window

[PakledHostage]

If a supply run is lost on launch at least one of the colonists will be able to survive until the next launch window

There have been documented cases of people resorting to cannibalism for survival throughout history... The Donner Party, the victims of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571, etc. It is still a huge taboo, however. The Algonquin people of North America even had a legend associated with it. The Windigo was a mythical creature that ate human flesh and could possess people or take on human form.

There are other problems with cannibalism too. IIRC, there was also a tribe in Papua New Guinnea that was dying out due to a prijon desease that was being transmitted due to their custom of honoring their dead by eating them.

[Themohawkninja]

There are other problems with cannibalism too. IIRC, there was also a tribe in Papua New Guinnea that was dying out due to a prijon desease that was being transmitted due to their custom of honoring their dead by eating them.

That's the only problem you mentioned (and the only one I have ever heard of).

[PakledHostage]

That's the only problem you mentioned (and the only one I have ever heard of).

I thought I also mentioned that it was a serious taboo? I realise that is a bit circular, but being shunned or even killed in punishment for violating a taboo is a threat to your survival. Among the Algonquin speaking natives that I mentioned, the expected behavior in times of starvation was to commit suicide or resign yourself to death. Those cultural norms evolved for a reason.

[Skyler4856]

Why do you think reference designs for missions to Mars usually keep the colonists together in pairs? If a supply run is lost on launch at least one of the colonists will be able to survive until the next launch window

I legitimately doubt that is the case. More likely a manned colony of one would end in suicide.

[jwenting]

if I can catch it, I can eat it. It would eat me too if it could catch me...

Of course there's the small issue of the meat maybe being toxic to humans to be taken into consideration, but intelligence has nothing to do with it.

[Comrade Jenkens]

Between eating neighbours and using human slaves to form colonies, I'm ever so slightly terrified of Themohawkninja...

[jwenting]

I thought I also mentioned that it was a serious taboo? I realise that is a bit circular, but being shunned or even killed in punishment for violating a taboo is a threat to your survival. Among the Algonquin speaking natives that I mentioned, the expected behavior in times of starvation was to commit suicide or resign yourself to death. Those cultural norms evolved for a reason.

yes, the people making such rules are often not the strongest warriors in a society, thus would be among the first to be butchered in times of famine were there no such taboos...

[MBobrik]

yes, the people making such rules are often not the strongest warriors in a society, thus would be among the first to be butchered in times of famine were there no such taboos...

Rules in tribal societies aren't made that way. And even if they were. A tribe with rules that hamper its survival too much, would just perish.

[Headhunter09]

if I can catch it, I can eat it. It would eat me too if it could catch me...

Clearly not everything that could catch you would eat you, judging by the responses of others in this thread.

[dharak1]

If it was a very human related animal like neanderthals I wouldn't eat it. Things like animals from Pandora including the Na'vi I would eat for sure.

[Nuke]

this thread made me think of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx4oWVw0lI4

[Tw1]

Would you eat a kerbal?

Even barbecued?

http://imgur.com/a/1y6wi

[Dispatcher]

Good luck finding anything that your body is able to digest and successful absorb the nutrients from. Life on earth is adapted to what it can "eat". The ecologies of worlds at other stars would likely be so different that it would make no sense to eat any native life there; unless its on a dare.

[lajoswinkler]

If I'm dying of hunger, and there isn't any other for of sustenance around (including what such creatures could feed me), then yes I would attempt to eat them.

No, not really. Would you let yourself die with potential food right in front of you just because the food thinks and talks?

The original post never mentioned grave danger of starvation. It was just about eating.

I can also resort to absurd scenarios like you. It's not a one man game.

What if the single potential food around is your mother or someone you love? Would you eat them? You see, part of being a healthy human being is having limits over a wide spectrum of actions. There's nothing good about lacking those limits or setting them very high. They exist for a reason.

I sincerely doubt you'd be able to kill someone and then eat them. I've seen plenty of chopped up people in my life. Not a pretty sight and it makes you develop a repulsion towards some kinds of animal meats when you need to prepare them for food. The smell is sometimes quite similar.

Good luck finding anything that your body is able to digest and successful absorb the nutrients from. Life on earth is adapted to what it can "eat". The ecologies of worlds at other stars would likely be so different that it would make no sense to eat any native life there; unless its on a dare.

True, it is possible that the proteins, carbohydrates and fats on another world would be such that their monomers (aminoacids, sugars) would not be suitable as building blocks of our body or they could be downright acutely toxic.

In this tetrapeptide, each aminoacid could be slightly different. It might even be the same aminoacids as we use, but chirally opposite. We use left-oriented aminoacids. Right-oriented would not be used by our metabolism.

We wouldn't be able to use the tissue and it would be a pain in the ass for our enzymes and protein channels to transport it around. Even if modified aminoacid somehow gets stuffed by synthesis into our protein (let's say a structural one, or a DNA-related enzyme) the protein would be defective, a recipe for chronic disease at best. Painful death over several days would be likely.

For most cases, I think the body would not be able to absorb the stuff and our poop would be large in quantity, milky and fluid in appearance. It would be epic whitish diarrhoea.

Edited January 26, 2014 by lajoswinkler