[1.2.0][WIP, PLUGIN][0.11.9.8][30/10/2016] KeepFit - Kerbal fitness degradation

[kerbiloid]

more game-side visuals coding involved in order to know where to start with that one

Maybe a piece of code from the great FractalUK's Interstellar mod would be useful.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43839-0-25-KSP-Interstellar-%28Magnetic-Nozzles-ISRU-Revamp%29-Version-0-13

As I can see, its license allows it.

There is a link to the plugin source: https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar

A source file FNPlugin/AntimatterStorageTank.cs, method doExplode() makes a bright white flash when a tank explodes.

Probably, you could implement smth similar.

[timmers_uk]

Maybe a piece of code from the great FractalUK's Interstellar mod would be useful.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43839-0-25-KSP-Interstellar-%28Magnetic-Nozzles-ISRU-Revamp%29-Version-0-13

As I can see, its license allows it.

There is a link to the plugin source: https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar

A source file FNPlugin/AntimatterStorageTank.cs, method doExplode() makes a bright white flash when a tank explodes.

Probably, you could implement smth similar.

Thanks for that.

[timmers_uk]

This is a fascinating concept! I haven't had a chance to play with it yet, but I hope you won't mind my telling you my first thoughts.

1) I think that some overall fitness mechanic would be very useful. In the future, it could easily be expanded to have more effects in different situations, and more situations affect it. Certainly, being a Badass should provide some bonus.

2) If we assume the lander cans were meant to stand in for the US and Soviet lunar lander capsules, then they don't have acceleration couches. Should make it a lot easier to die under high acceleration...

3) Radiation could also affect fitness.

4) Zero G is really bad for you; short of a rotating centrifuge, I don't think that "exercising" should be possible. The very long periods of exercise on long duration flights really just keep the astronauts from deteriorating too much. Two hours a day on a treadmill isn't much effort compared to walking around under gravity.

1. There is an overall fitness stat in here, not sure if you mean as a feneral stock feature? I expect it very juch out of scope for squad to do.

2 is an interesting thought, which hasnt occurred to me, even though using the 1 man lander can for kerbin reentry always bothered me, this would ge a good mechanic to 'discourage' such shenanigans.

3 would involve integration with kspi, as afaik that is the only one modelling radiation, so its low on my list.

4 is already how keepfit works. The best you get get even with the centrifuge is neutral, so no loss, but also no gain - its all mm configurable though.

[JeffreyCor]

Finding crew status window wants to disappear now unless the main pull down window is locked open and mousing over the button causes the crew window to disappear. Having a constant display for the crew and G loads is desirable and missed from older versions.

[timmers_uk]

Finding crew status window wants to disappear now unless the main pull down window is locked open and mousing over the button causes the crew window to disappear. Having a constant display for the crew and G loads is desirable and missed from older versions.

I've concluded i dont like this aspect applauncher integration either, and will be fixing this today, hopefully

[timmers_uk]

First post updated - 0.2.0.6 released, which switches back to a more 'use applauncher as a toggle for mainWindow' style of operating rather than mainWindow being an exclusive window, and closing mainWindow causing all other windows to close.

I am looking at the other suggestions, esp the code from KSPI which does the whiteout, but that will take a little longer.

Timmers

[John Nowak]

1. There is an overall fitness stat in here, not sure if you mean as a feneral stock feature? I expect it very juch out of scope for squad to do.

2 is an interesting thought, which hasnt occurred to me, even though using the 1 man lander can for kerbin reentry always bothered me, this would ge a good mechanic to 'discourage' such shenanigans.

3 would involve integration with kspi, as afaik that is the only one modelling radiation, so its low on my list.

4 is already how keepfit works. The best you get get even with the centrifuge is neutral, so no loss, but also no gain - its all mm configurable though.

1 - I think that some sort of "fitness" stat is exactly what the game needs; in my opinion in most games with characters you need a way to say "something bad happens to you, but it's not lethal... yet" and it needs to be enforced through game mechanics. I recall a wry comment to the effect that players don't care about "you're cold and uncomfortable," but start knocking off hit points and suddenly they'll do anything for a parka. It's a bit abstract and apparently arbitrary to kill someone during re-entry, but have a Kerbal in orbit with a deteriorating Health stat and players will start working to fix the situation.

This sort of thing can be very immersive. I added the DangIt mod, which gives the Kerbals Mechanic and Electrician perks, and suddenly I'm thinking "Okay, Bob needs to be on this mission because he's my only kerbonaut who can fix a broken engine."

2) Yeah, this is the "Deagle Effect." The story is the Desert Eagle is a popular pistol in some games because the gun's virtues are simulated, while its disadvantages are not. The Lander Can is light, but you can't pilot it when it's under more than two Gs, at best.

3) Yeah, this was more a general suggestion. Of course, if your mod did have a "fitness" rating for each Kerbal, then other modders could use that any way they wanted.

4) Right, I gathered that - just wondering if the nomenclature might be confusing. "What do you mean you can't Exercise in microgravity? They do this all the time on the ISS!" because you're using "Exercise" to mean "In Gravity."

[Hattivat]

Downloading to try it out, thanks for your work!

[Night Lone]

I'm thinking about adding some compatibility to this on my mod, so people who have this can actually use this

If I'm allowed that is

just thinking it would be good to have an exercise area out in space

[timmers_uk]

I'm thinking about adding some compatibility to this on my mod, so people who have this can actually use this

If I'm allowed that is

just thinking it would be good to have an exercise area out in space

That woukd be very nice. Iirc if you are landed, its assumed you can get some exercise, even in the smallest capsule (presumably by getting out when no-one is looking). I could potentially make that configurable though.

Also 1 small note to sonething i wrote previously. .. i had written that you can never be in state 'exercising' when off planet. That is wrong, and you can, its just something i had reserved for porkjets spinny hab. Ill soon add some configs to achieve similarly with the MKS spinny hab, and also hopefully fix the multiple keepfit partmodules issue.

Edited November 22, 2014 by timmers_uk
fix virtual keyboard isms

[Night Lone]

...

Also 1 small note to sonething i wrote previously. .. i had written that you can never be in state 'exercising' when off planet. That is wrong, and you can, its just something i had reserved for porkjets spinny hab. Ill soon add some configs to achieve similarly with the MKS spinny hab, and also hopefully fix the multiple keepfit partmodules issue.

Yeah, it's that "Exercising" mode isn't it? anyhow I'll be adding that to my exercise room so that only have 2 kerbals in there makes sense I like how the G force works. Just a question: They only get weak while floating in space right? (while not exercising) Also, does exercising (in space/ground) mean that they'll get stronger or they just won't get weaker (or get weaker slower)??

[timmers_uk]

Yeah, it's that "Exercising" mode isn't it? anyhow I'll be adding that to my exercise room so that only have 2 kerbals in there makes sense I like how the G force works. Just a question: They only get weak while floating in space right? (while not exercising) Also, does exercising (in space/ground) mean that they'll get stronger or they just won't get weaker (or get weaker slower)??

Sorry for the delay in replying here .. RL fun.

Any time your Kerbals are out of crew rotation (hired but not on a mission), they are regaining fitness at the 'Exercising' level. Similarly, if they are on a mission and landed they get 'Exercising' as their activity level, wherever they are (currently - I'm changing this to instead require a minimum Gee level for this to count - 'landed' on Dres shouldn't count!).

I'm currently cleaning up this code and changing it so that each individual Kerbal's location in the Vessel is what counts for their activity level, as with the future addition of tracking seat max Gee level, I can no longer assume they move around themselves randomly (maybe later on I can hook in CLS and have them be treated as moving randomly in their accessible space, but not when under thrust) - this means when you abandon your Kerbals for months at a time, you need to either leave them in a Gee-simulating Hab, or expect to find a crew of cripples on return... this coupled with needing to seat your Kerbals during high Gee maneouvres in seat capable of taking the Gee loadings will be 'interesting', but will take a little time, as I need to work out how to disable controls if you don't have a minimum amount of crew capable of performing. I also intend to split the Gee capability into 2 - a Gee level at which the Kerbal will be incapable of controlling the craft, and a Gee level at which they will become a bent and broken ex-Kerbal.

More news as I make progress, but if desired, I could release the interim update with the rejigged activityLevel calculation code.

[Overjay]

I'd like to propose a decrease of EXERCISEs while walkin on the planet surface. It should be COMFY, I think. Kerbals need equipment to exercise properly.

I noticed that, while I was riding a rover on Mun.

[JeffreyCor]

I effectively disabled G effects in Deadly Reentry in favor of KeepFit This does so much better job of handling it!

[timmers_uk]

I'd like to propose a decrease of EXERCISEs while walkin on the planet surface. It should be COMFY, I think. Kerbals need equipment to exercise properly.

I noticed that, while I was riding a rover on Mun.

So if I'm understanding what you are saying correctly, KeepFit is setting you as exercising when moving over the surface - I'll have to check that, as I never tried using it whilst travelling in a Rover - generally speaking I've not been too worried over the detailed exercise state whilst landed as I didn't want to overdo the micromanagement aspect, instead using handwaving to imply they can get out and do as much calisthenics as they like when you aren't looking - much like taking the 'best' module in the vessel and handwaving around the ability of kerbals to move around to get some exercise, without actually having to move them manually.

I effectively disabled G effects in Deadly Reentry in favor of KeepFit This does so much better job of handling it!

Cool thanks - I started from the baseline of Nathan's Deadly Re-entry G effects code in the beginning, and added more detail to it.

[timmers_uk]

Quick update ...

I haven't had a chance to look into the landed but roving Kerbals in Exercising issue as yet, but I have pushed a quick update for 0.90.0 which also has one other issue I'd noticed resolved, which is to limit the minimum landed Gee level below which Kerbals don't get to count as Exercising - so no more automatic jumping jacks on Gilly - its not big, not clever, and would probably result in achieving escape velocity.

Download link on first post, as usual.

I'd also be interested if people are keen on me keeping with releases on KerbalStuff, as its definitely easier just pushing releases to github, but if people prefer KerbalStuff, I'll continue with that.

Timmers

Edited December 16, 2014 by timmers_uk

[Rockstar04]

I'd also be interested if people are keen on me keeping with releases on KerbalStuff, as its definitely easier just pushing releases to github, but if people prefer KerbalStuff, I'll continue with that.

Timmers

Have you considered setting up a github hook of some kind to automatically upload new releases to Kerbal Stuff? It looks like it would be easy enough to do with something like travisCI or Jenkins and Kerbal Stuff's API

[timmers_uk]

Have you considered setting up a github hook of some kind to automatically upload new releases to Kerbal Stuff? It looks like it would be easy enough to do with something like travisCI or Jenkins and Kerbal Stuff's API

I was using appveyor to do builds before , but the PITA factor of it got the better of me - there's a distinct lack of free/almost free build hosting on windows which is available, and I can't really justify the cost of running my own local or cloud instance just for these builds (and *definitely* can't be using any of the kit at work for it).

If I was more freelance/contractor software engineer it'd be no problem, but as a wage-slave I'm reliant on company kit for work stuff

[Rockstar04]

I was using appveyor to do builds before , but the PITA factor of it got the better of me - there's a distinct lack of free/almost free build hosting on windows which is available, and I can't really justify the cost of running my own local or cloud instance just for these builds (and *definitely* can't be using any of the kit at work for it).

If I was more freelance/contractor software engineer it'd be no problem, but as a wage-slave I'm reliant on company kit for work stuff

Understandable, I am in the process of setting up a multi-slave, multi-platform Jenkins cluster for mobile phone app building, so I feel ya' on the PITA factor.

[Wisq]

FYI, the CKAN version of this plugin doesn't install correctly  it puts it into GameData/KeepFit rather than GameData/Timmers/KeepFit, and so it pops up the "you've installed this incorrectly" popup at the main menu.

[timmers_uk]

FYI, the CKAN version of this plugin doesn't install correctly  it puts it into GameData/KeepFit rather than GameData/Timmers/KeepFit, and so it pops up the "you've installed this incorrectly" popup at the main menu.

Sorry about that - have been away for a while - I'll probably alter the package layout to be more standard (i.e. GameData/KeepFit)

[Scientist]

could this be changed a bit to make cramped/neutral/etc be dependant on crew capacity filled?

like if 2 room, i set for cramped, works fine now, but if i put only 1 kerbal in, i want it to auto adjust to neutral

would give reason to not fill labs so much etc, fuller gets more production, but then you get cramped workspace

not so full, be neutral, but less production - combine with centrifuge and you have reason to swap crew shifts

but if not doing much work, dont care for production just then, lower how many working, not worry about degrading

[Wisq]

Couple questions:

1. Is exercising in space the same as exercising back at the KSC on Kerbin?

2. Aside from the minimum g-force required for the "exercising" state, does exercising get more effective under heavier gravities?

Basically, I've got an OKS station with the rotating hab rings, and they're considered "exercising", but I've managed to reduce several of them to zero fitness (oops) and I'm wondering if they would recover faster back on Kerbin.

Edit: Answered my questions by looking at the source code. Best I can tell, #1 is "yes" and #2 is "no".

Edited February 6, 2015 by Wisq

[timmers_uk]

Couple questions:

1. Is exercising in space the same as exercising back at the KSC on Kerbin?

2. Aside from the minimum g-force required for the "exercising" state, does exercising get more effective under heavier gravities?

Basically, I've got an OKS station with the rotating hab rings, and they're considered "exercising", but I've managed to reduce several of them to zero fitness (oops) and I'm wondering if they would recover faster back on Kerbin.

Edit: Answered my questions by looking at the source code. Best I can tell, #1 is "yes" and #2 is "no".

Apologies for the long delay in reply. You are correct on both counts.

Timmers

- - - Updated - - -

could this be changed a bit to make cramped/neutral/etc be dependant on crew capacity filled?

like if 2 room, i set for cramped, works fine now, but if i put only 1 kerbal in, i want it to auto adjust to neutral

would give reason to not fill labs so much etc, fuller gets more production, but then you get cramped workspace

not so full, be neutral, but less production - combine with centrifuge and you have reason to swap crew shifts

but if not doing much work, dont care for production just then, lower how many working, not worry about degrading

I might be able to make that an option

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry about that - have been away for a while - I'll probably alter the package layout to be more standard (i.e. GameData/KeepFit)

I'm just now putting together an initial 1.0.0 KSP based build which is in GameData/KeepFit.

[radinator]

The new version (0.4.1.1) in CKAN still seems install to the GameData/Timmers/Keepfit directory, which doesn't seem to work.