[0.90] Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter System v4.13

[mdapol]

I'm noticing that when rolling the KSO in preparation for external tank separation it seems to have an unwanted oscillation. I generally do this with RCS, btw. In other words, the shuttle doesn't just roll on its axis like it should. Is this a known bug?

[Nazari1382]

The RCS is not centered around the CoM when you have a giant tank attached to the craft.

[helldiver]

Love those stations and videos!

We'll talk about which mods you're running, cause I really would like to change my Kerbals. I don't want the uniforms, just the faces and female Kerbals.

[Westi29]

Love those stations and videos!

We'll talk about which mods you're running, cause I really would like to change my Kerbals. I don't want the uniforms, just the faces and female Kerbals.

Thank you! I really think inflatable parts fit well with the KSO too. The faces mod is Texture Replacer, and from there you need to get the Pimp My Kerbals Pack (which is all in the release thread). It took me a bit to figure out how to put the faces in the game and give jeb, bill, and bob their own unique look, but after I figured it out I realized that it is fairly straightforward and easy!

[mdapol]

The RCS is not centered around the CoM when you have a giant tank attached to the craft.

I don't suppose the RCS system could be set up to adjust itself based on whether or not the tank is still attached? I notice both the TiberDyne shuttle and the Component Space Shuttle don't seem to have this problem but I don't know why since what you're saying makes sense.

[Commander Jebidiah]

I don't suppose the RCS system could be set up to adjust itself based on whether or not the tank is still attached? I notice both the TiberDyne shuttle and the Component Space Shuttle don't seem to have this problem but I don't know why since what you're saying makes sense.

Oh yes the tyberdyne shuttle does have this problem that's one of the reasons I uninstalled it aswell as the unbalanced RCS in space, the launch clamps not holding and how weak the shuttle was compared to the mk3 shuttle parts.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Commander Jebidiah
damn you autocorrect

[mdapol]

Oh yes the tyberdyne shuttle does have this problem that's one of the reasons I uninstalled it aswell as the unbalanced RCS in space, the launch clamps not holding and how weak the shuttle was compared to the mk3 shuttle parts.

That's interesting because I just downloaded and tried out the TiberDyne shuttle last night and I noticed right away that when I did a roll before external tank separation it performed it cleanly with no wobble. Just out of curiosity, what version of TiberDyne did you use?

[Commander Jebidiah]

That's interesting because I just downloaded and tried out the TiberDyne shuttle last night and I noticed right away that when I did a roll before external tank separation it performed it cleanly with no wobble. Just out of curiosity, what version of TiberDyne did you use?

The newest one

[frizzank]

You know, I was curious after reading what you said just how badly the texture compressor was blurring things. I prefer empirical evidence and I haven't seen any pictures showing your cockpit in poor quality as the result of texture compression.

In fact I use it myself and the cockpit looks fine to me, but if what looks fine to me is actually bad quality then I figured I'd uninstall the compressor and start the game to see what it really looked like. And honestly I can't tell the difference.

But I have an outdated copy of the texture compressor, from back when it was actually called... texture compressor. (it's Active Texture management now, or something). So I re-downloaded it, the 'aggressive' version and checked the cockpit again.

Pictures below. Can you tell me which one is uncompressed, compressed with the older version and compressed with the newest aggressive version? Because I can't even tell you which one is which. The only difference I see is when I look at Task Manager. (2 GB, 2.5 GB and 3.2 GB). But, I can guarantee you that 2 are uncompressed (standard KSO download, not alternate low res), 2 are compression using the December version and 2 using the most recent Aggressive.

http://imgur.com/a/06cOl

Texture compression works depending on the content and size of the image. If I have a low resolution, high frequency texture like the Mercury and Gemini capsules. Texture compression will murder all the fine details like the ridges that take up a majority of the exterior. Helldiver's textures are higher resolution and when they are not the are very flat and gradual as far as contrast in the textures. So for his textures you will see little difference in the compressed and uncompressed versions. Though you do see it some on the text, but the camera is rarely that close to notice.

[mdapol]

The newest one

Me too. Strange.

[qnistNAMEERF]

The counter-rotate problem and the Kod-damnit comments got me. That was great.

[mostlydave]

The calm before the shuttle launched space station storm...

[Westi29]

The Twenty-Eighth of my STS KSO Shuttle Missions and 24th Flight of the Tenacious! STS 128's objective is to deploy the KSO Eve Space Station Propulsion Module and return to the KSC Runway! The propulsion module is a Lack Luster Labs 80kN 800Isp Nuclear engine.

The construction and deployment missions run STS 123 through STS 130.


Most of the footage is shown in 4x speed for quick viewing.

STS 129 will deploy the Eve Station Port Solar Truss!

[helldiver]

The calm before the shuttle launched space station storm...

Actually we've hit some issues and will be making some cuts unfortunately although it isn't final.

The casualties are currently the Large Solar Array (ISS style solar array) and the Station Service Tug IVA. Same goes for any other IVA or objects that gives him issues. I'm seriously fed up with KSP's lack of proper Mod and texture management support.

Having to copy textures that are shared by multiple objects was it for me (and yes if it weren't for Naz doing some workarounds, each station module would have had its own internals folder with copies of the same texture file), which pardon my French but is bull**** and demonstrates total lack of proper experience, design, and quality control on behalf of Squad. This needs to be priority number 1 before spending a dime on NASA inspired DLCs.

If you guys would like more quality free mods made by me, you guys as a community will have to request from the Developer the following:

-Textures must be able to be shared by multiple assets regardless of their designation, whether they are a prop, internal, or external. Preferably a dedicated Textures folders the way Skyrim and pretty much any Mod friendly game does it. This helps the issue of having to repeat the same texture on assets that share it. As it is right now (I've never seen an engine do such an inefficient and absurd method) each part must have its own Internals folder, and even if the same texture is shared, a copy of that texture must be in that internals folder, and a copy of that texture gets loaded into memory (I can't confirm that). That is absolutely absurd.

-Texture and Asset memory management. Folks are already cutting parts and mods off. An argument could have made that all the Phases in the KSOS could have been separate. But guess what? The savings you would have received by having it separate wasn't that much since all the parts shared the same textures. However, because of the way that KSP is currently configured, you would have had to re-download and install all textures used by the other phases shared by each other anyhow.

-Internals should be treated like any other object. Allow us to specify directly where the Internal geometry's textures are located.

-A workaround for texture lookup could be a Unity KSP export tool that allows the modder to designate specifically the location of an object's textures. The asset will always look in those folders first and then check the default folders if it doesn't find its texture. Alternatively, KSP should use a Textures folder with a part subdirectory. Modders place textures here and point to them in their exporter.

In the end these suggestions help everyone:

-Squad wins because it means more quality mods out there. It makes their own asset scalability and production cheaper and efficient.

-KSP owners can have more mods installed in a game lacking content.

-Modders have an easier time getting their mods to work on a variety of systems.

I have zero interest on further phases. That includes Phase III which includes the larger 2.5meter KSO, why? Because it shared assets from the first KSO and the other phases. Unfortunately that would mean having copies of the largest files (such as the cockpit textures) inside the internals folder of the Super 25. Same goes for the moon lander and pretty much any other IVA'ed object I create. And as you all know, my goal is primarily IVA'ed spacecraft and spacecraft components. I have very little interest in flying lugs, which sadly the SST has now become.

[Deltac]

*holy snips batman*

And another artist hits a wall. Is there a suggestion thread in the suggestion area suggesting what you are suggesting here? That's probably a good idea. Might want to make it a poll with the question, "Should Squad spend the time after .24 to update their file management systems for parts and their assets? -yes -Yes -Ja -Si -Weeeeeee -I have no idea what we're talking about, so yes."

Oh wait, we'd have to put "no" in that poll, too..... the mining whiners might defeat us.

[Virtualgenius]

Can we throw in a complete lack of windows 64bit client and the fact that all parts have to be preloaded into memory first rather than accessing when needed seeing as I have been *****ing about this for a year

[switchON]

The Twenty-Eighth of my STS KSO Shuttle Missions and 24th Flight of the Tenacious! STS 128's objective is to deploy the KSO Eve Space Station Propulsion Module and return to the KSC Runway! The propulsion module is a Lack Luster Labs 80kN 800Isp Nuclear engine.

The construction and deployment missions run STS 123 through STS 130.

Most of the footage is shown in 4x speed for quick viewing.

STS 129 will deploy the Eve Station Port Solar Truss!

Where did you get the Texture with the Aurora ? I have this Mod but I have only dynamics Clouds

[helldiver]

The problem demonstrated for all of you guys to see a bit more clearly:

Q: But Helldiver, can't you just break up everything into a bunch of props?

-No for several reasons. I use the same production pipeline used in triple AAA titles. This makes producing all the stuff fast and efficient. Don't like that the color of the SST is yellow? In one two seconds that's fixed. Need a better Specular? Generated in a matter of minutes. By having one large object on one UVW, I can produce all the needed baking in just a few passes.

-I am able to bake the lighting into the internals so it looks like everything belongs there. If things were individual props, it would take much longer to reproduce that. Additionally Nazari would have to place each prop more or less. This current method makes it much faster to do all that (a mater of days instead of weeks) and when Nazari gets it to put it in game all he has to do is assign texture, do the plugins, and export.

-Had the KSO been separate props, the size of the installation would have ballooned to near double the size. By having a single texture we can compress that (using the texture compression mod) or do what ever. Individual prop textures would have actually added up to much larger than a single 2048x2048 (keep in mind that what makes the large one look good with some loss of visual clarity are the shadows baked in).

Edited March 13, 2014 by helldiver

[CaptRobau]

Can we throw in a complete lack of windows 64bit client and the fact that all parts have to be preloaded into memory first rather than accessing when needed seeing as I have been *****ing about this for a year

The lack of a 64-bit client has to do with Unity itself not having a stable 64-bit Windows client and has nothing to with Squad. Seeing as 64-bit would solve a lot of problems, I imagine Squad will jump on it the moment Unity gets that done.

[mostlydave]

well that sucks! The work you've done is amazing and I for one can't wait to try out the station parts, even with the missing IVA.

I never understood why squad just keeps jamming more crap into the game instead of fixing and stabilizing what they have, both engine wise and part wise. I can't believe they added "career mode" and the command pod you start with doesn't have a proper iva? I can't even imagine what that meeting was like.

Mods are what make KSP a great game, it sucks to see squad not supporting the volunteer mod developers that make the game great and increase profits for them.

Thanks again for the awesome work on this mod!

[hieywiey]

I think that what KSP needs is community-based development.

[Railgunner2160]

Last I checked the starting pod DOES have an iva, whether that fits your idea of proper is beside the point. The 1 man 1.25m pod is built so it's roughly analogous to the old mercury capsules, they didn't have all that much of a view either.......

[TerLoki]

I... I've gotta be honest, the IVAs were the main reason I was planning on making use of the Phase II parts. Without that, there doesn't seem to be much point to me. Sure, they're smaller, lighter, and very cool looking, but here was a case where it really was what was on the inside that counted. Without the IVAs an amazing mod pack just gets downgraded to "pretty cool".

[mostlydave]

Well there's a thread over in suggestions here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/72443-Texture-sharing I recommend everyone let squad know how they feel about this. Maybe it will get some attention and some action.

[mostlydave]

Last I checked the starting pod DOES have an iva, whether that fits your idea of proper is beside the point. The 1 man 1.25m pod is built so it's roughly analogous to the old mercury capsules, they didn't have all that much of a view either.......

Yeah that's hardly the only command pod with a jacked up IVA, and if that's the best squad can do, or it's supposed to be finished that's just sad.