[0.90] Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter System v4.13

[helldiver]

Gorgeous video as always Westi!

Can't want to see how you handle the Super 25!

Phase III Update

-Taking a break. Playing the game and catching up with other non-KSP related things

-Phase III is being pushed back. Instead I will be doing Phase 2.5, and you can guess what it includes.

-Three weeks minimum before you see the first screenshots. I don't like sharing screenshots of things in progress do to too many experts and aviation professionals on the forum. Once it has its first texture passes I'll share shots. will try and get everything lathed and mastered (exterior) by wednesday, I'll take some size comparison shots, but no promises.

-I rebuilt many systems, hence instead of 80% complete it's about 65% complete now.

-Our plan is to use the same Thrustmax 200s. During testing we'll see how well our testers can handle getting 2.5 cargo loads into orbits. The KSO EWBCL Fuselage has about as much fuel as a KSOAFM. So when you attach the rear end (uses the same one from the KSO) you'll have about as much fuel as a KSO+KSOAFM.

-If they have issues getting payloads into orbit, then I'll have to build a new SSME which would push the project back longer.

-Has its own IVA which is not shared with the KSO and vice-versa. The reason being the dorsal mounted KSOS docking port node.

-Possible window from crew deck (below flightdeck) into cargo bay, possible, but not certain.

-Large bay windows.

-Design inspired by C-17. In fact it looks a lot like a cross between a C-17 and the KSO. (KSO was inspired by 737).

-2x2 trucks might not make it. I have to see how it looks. Also, although Naz says it's possible, I've a feeling it won't be. So it may use a 2-0 configuration on its main gear like the KSO uses (main gear similar to a 737 instead of a 767 for reference).

-Main wings may be compatible with B9 parts, we'll have to wait until it's finished. Odds are textures and style won't match.

-Cargo Bay and Cockpit is welded as one, and will continue to be unless Nazari ends up with animation module limitations. In the VAB it'll appear as KSO EWBCL Fuselage.

Edited March 29, 2014 by helldiver

[Westi29]

So awesome! Can't wait for the 25. Also, I can usually fill the cargo bay of the KSO with fuel and still get to orbit, it just drains all of the fuel. So that could be a decent benchmark for testing. I have to rush my Laythe colony now! haha

[Odyssey]

Hello All,

I've been away from Kerbal for a few months and now I'm coming back. I kept an eye on this mod last year and I'm psyched to see it come to fruition.

I saw that a new release was up on the spaceport on 3/27.

I am wondering what I need to do to get MechJeb for this as well and if there are any tricks or hints that will make it easier to fly (and land) with MJ.

I've seen different MJ's floating around out there so I'm not even sure which one I need.

[qnistNAMEERF]

Gorgeous video as always Westi!

Can't want to see how you handle the Super 25!

Phase III Update

-Taking a break. Playing the game and catching up with other non-KSP related things

-Phase III is being pushed back. Instead I will be doing Phase 2.5, and you can guess what it includes.

-Three weeks minimum before you see the first screenshots. I don't like sharing screenshots of things in progress do to too many experts and aviation professionals on the forum. Once it has its first texture passes I'll share shots. will try and get everything lathed and mastered (exterior) by wednesday, I'll take some size comparison shots, but no promises.

-I rebuilt many systems, hence instead of 80% complete it's about 65% complete now.

-Our plan is to use the same Thrustmax 200s. During testing we'll see how well our testers can handle getting 2.5 cargo loads into orbits. The KSO EWBCL Fuselage has about as much fuel as a KSOAFM. So when you attach the rear end (uses the same one from the KSO) you'll have about as much fuel as a KSO+KSOAFM.

-If they have issues getting payloads into orbit, then I'll have to build a new SSME which would push the project back longer.

-Has its own IVA which is not shared with the KSO and vice-versa. The reason being the dorsal mounted KSOS docking port node.

-Possible window from crew deck (below flightdeck) into cargo bay, possible, but not certain.

-Large bay windows.

-Design inspired by C-17. In fact it looks a lot like a cross between a C-17 and the KSO. (KSO was inspired by 737).

-2x2 trucks might not make it. I have to see how it looks. Also, although Naz says it's possible, I've a feeling it won't be. So it may use a 2-0 configuration on its main gear like the KSO uses (main gear similar to a 737 instead of a 767 for reference).

-Main wings may be compatible with B9 parts, we'll have to wait until it's finished. Odds are textures and style won't match.

-Cargo Bay and Cockpit is welded as one, and will continue to be unless Nazari ends up with animation module limitations. In the VAB it'll appear as KSO EWBCL Fuselage.

I've always wanted to ask if you have experience in aircraft manufacturing or if you're a pilot from some of the details I've noticed on the KSO. For instance, the green color used for areas like the wheel wells and where the wings attach. And the light brown used in multiple other areas. Both remind me of hexavalent chromate primer and CIC. It's a shame we won't get to see some early dev shots, but I understand where you're coming from.

Hello All,

I've been away from Kerbal for a few months and now I'm coming back. I kept an eye on this mod last year and I'm psyched to see it come to fruition.

I saw that a new release was up on the spaceport on 3/27.

I am wondering what I need to do to get MechJeb for this as well and if there are any tricks or hints that will make it easier to fly (and land) with MJ.

I've seen different MJ's floating around out there so I'm not even sure which one I need.

You'll want the files located in the first and second post of the thread. There's a bunch of advice in this thread about using the KSO with mechjeb.

[helldiver]

I've always wanted to ask if you have experience in aircraft manufacturing or if you're a pilot from some of the details I've noticed on the KSO. For instance, the green color used for areas like the wheel wells and where the wings attach. And the light brown used in multiple other areas. Both remind me of hexavalent chromate primer and CIC. It's a shame we won't get to see some early dev shots, but I understand where you're coming from.

I've dabbled in aviation throughout my life. Was a UH-60 mechanic in the army. The guys at my unit including my CO wanted me to go to US Army flight school, but that would have meant a longer contract and Iraq '03 was on the horizon. So I just let my time come and went my way.

Once out, I got my VFR and later IFR certification. At the time I was thinking of getting into commercial aviation but slowly lost interest. It was too much responsibility and it just wasn't my thing, you really have to love it to get into it fully. It was one of those things where I loved it on the computer but the real thing just didn't tickle my fiddle, follow me?

[Bomoo]

Might I persuade you to consider including sloped octo to 1.25m/2.5m adapters for better integration with the stock parts? I'd like to use the octo ports (with adapter + KAS struts) for situations in which perfect alignment is desirable, such as a series of solar arrays or segments of a permanent multi-part craft. Something like this part:

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Rockomax_Brand_Adapter_02

[qnistNAMEERF]

...

Fair enough. I'm a manufacturing tech myself (only worked on one airline model in my career so far, though) so I appreciate the little details you put into your models here, even if it's kerbalized. I believe that's one of the things that make this such a great mod. Thanks for sharing.

[Raptor831]

-2x2 trucks might not make it. I have to see how it looks. Also, although Naz says it's possible, I've a feeling it won't be. So it may use a 2-0 configuration on its main gear like the KSO uses (main gear similar to a 737 instead of a 767 for reference).

In the B9 Aerospace thread, I believe I remember Bac9 talking about multi-axle landing gear. It's possible to model them, but the gear can only handle 1 collision point, so it still acts like a single axle.

[GentleHeaven]

Flight of STS - 102!

Payload was a habitation module pushed to rendezvous with the power module

Javascript is disabled. View full album

BIS will be back soon with the third flight of their orbiter soon!

[qnistNAMEERF]

Here's some shots of my dragonfly-inspired space station and with a KSO docked to it.

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[Green Skull]

After an emergency landing at the north pole KSO Mayhem needed some minor work... As they say any landing you can walk away from is a good one...

A new wing and some new paint later she's back delivering the Duna SCANsat to orbit.

This wasn't easy because of the robotic arm and the weight of the damn thing! It means I now have a ground crew with a movable ladder to attach KAS struts before lift off.

[vardicd]

Here's some shots of my dragonfly-inspired space station and with a KSO docked to it.

http://imgur.com/a/BjwDg

Why do you have those square panels on the EFT??

[Tangle]

Uh, there are double parts in the download...

[The Space Man]

Why did i even try...

[TeeGee]

KSO tips:

1) I use only 1 tailfin, the other is just a waste of weight.

2) Is there no way to dump fuel before reentry? I ask because whenever I reenter atmo, my orbiter keeps flipping when I make small attitude adjustments, it's because the COM is behind the COL. If I dump fuel, the 2 are on top of each other leading to much more manageable control.

I did this with fuel left over from the orange, I just let it go so that it would reenter the atmosphere before doing my OMS burn.

It may seem like a simple mission, buy during reentry my orbiter started tumbling and I had to take control with RCS. I had WAAAY too much fuel, but had no way of dumping it before reentry.

2 options:

1) Find a mod that dumps fuel I didn't need.

2) take up LESS fuel.

Edited March 29, 2014 by TeeGee

[Tangle]

Hmm... Perhaps your tumbling is caused by lack of control, caused by not actually having 2 fins.

I had this problem before, though. Try a lower pitch.

[Jethro Bodine]

...I had WAAAY too much fuel, but had no way of dumping it before reentry.

2 options:

1) Find a mod that dumps fuel I didn't need.

2) take up LESS fuel.

There's at least a couple addons for dumping fuel on the Spaceport that I know of. Personally, I use the one in dtobi's Klockheed Martian Smart Parts Pack.

It has a number of utilities that are quite useful, plus if you read the KSO credits, dtobi contributed the shuttle engines' gimbal plugin (so you're already using some of his work).

[TeeGee]

[SaSquatch]

The SmartParts Pack fuel valve is what's used in the video. I've never had a tumble though but sit on the runway with a full tank and you pop a wheelie.

I honestly only dumped fuel to ensure that the video was obviously unpowered.

Edited March 29, 2014 by SaSquatch

[Virtualgenius]

Klockhead Martian has the part you need in its smart parts

GreenSkull what is that gold thing

[TeeGee]

The SmartParts Pack fuel valve is what's used in the video. I've never had a tumble though but sit on the runway with a full tank and you pop a wheelie.

I honestly only dumped fuel to ensure that the video was obviously unpowered.

I went into the SPH and build another shuttle and tested its COM vs COL in both full and empty fuel configs, and also took a look at having 2 vs 1 tailfin, it really doesn't make that much of a difference in terms of COM position in both full and dry mass.

When I reentered atmo, I was sitting pretty at 10 degrees inclination and then tried to adjust the entry angle to become 20 and the whole thing just flipped on me. If it was due to the fact I didn't use the tail fins as partial aerelons, then that's just sad.

Just out of curiosity, does the real shuttle dump its OMS fuel before reentry? I know it dumps its nose RCS monoprop because they don't want the fuel the ignite on reentry, but what about the OMS pod fuels..?

[SaSquatch]

I went into the SPH and build another shuttle and tested its COM vs COL in both full and empty fuel configs, and also took a look at having 2 vs 1 tailfin, it really doesn't make that much of a difference in terms of COM position in both full and dry mass.

When I reentered atmo, I was sitting pretty at 10 degrees inclination and then tried to adjust the entry angle to become 20 and the whole thing just flipped on me. If it was due to the fact I didn't use the tail fins as partial aerelons, then that's just sad.

Just out of curiosity, does the real shuttle dump its OMS fuel before reentry? I know it dumps its nose RCS monoprop because they don't want the fuel the ignite on reentry, but what about the OMS pod fuels..?

OMS and RCS use the same fuel. Nose RCS dump is actually not before reentry. If it was, there would be no way to control the spacecrafts nose since the control surfaces wouldn't work in that part of reentry. This dump is performed to reduce the weight in the nose AFTER there's enough atmo that RCS isn't needed anymore.... So the flight surfaces can actually lift the nose. It's not to avoid fire.... well, not primarily.

Edited March 29, 2014 by SaSquatch

[helldiver]

I went into the SPH and build another shuttle and tested its COM vs COL in both full and empty fuel configs, and also took a look at having 2 vs 1 tailfin, it really doesn't make that much of a difference in terms of COM position in both full and dry mass.

When I reentered atmo, I was sitting pretty at 10 degrees inclination and then tried to adjust the entry angle to become 20 and the whole thing just flipped on me. If it was due to the fact I didn't use the tail fins as partial aerelons, then that's just sad.

Just out of curiosity, does the real shuttle dump its OMS fuel before reentry? I know it dumps its nose RCS monoprop because they don't want the fuel the ignite on reentry, but what about the OMS pod fuels..?

It does neither. They pre-plan their mission years ahead of time and calculate how much fuel they'll be using and all that.

-CoL (the blue arrow tool) in the VAB is buggy. Sometimes replacing the fins with new ones clears it, sometimes it doesn't. Block 7 found in v2.08 has a whole new rear end (I grabbed the old one and trashed it), and the bug is still there.

-If you're just grabbing the stock craft file or building your own with the default fuel amounts then you're going to have too much fuel if you do an empty orbit run. If your tank on the KSO has too much fuel, then it has a high risk of tumbling on re-entry, possibly breaking apart (it's happened to me when returning with 250+ fuel).

-Flight characteristics and numbers are balanced to non-FAR, V-Tail. Any other configuration, including using FAR or trying to put a single tail on top NASA/Buran style, and I can't offer any help or advice.

-If you were pitching up on re-entry and lost control, that is a fuel issue (too much fuel). It also depends on what altitude you did that at, anything above 15km and it's weight/torque related. The wings and v-tail don't really kick in until below 15km.

-And finally, this isn't the real shuttle

PS: If we modeled it after the real NASA Space Shuttles or Buran, none of you would be able to fly it or do anything with it except for a very rare few players that would have the patience and skill to learn it. We'd have 10 times more complaints about how it handles than we have already. A lot of folks on here think those spacecraft handled perfectly on the T in space. The reality is they handled like ****, and took years of training in a simulator to even begin to get a basic grasp. Even then, they never tried anything risky and only flew by hand the final few minutes of it. Launch and pretty much everything else, 90% of a flight, was done by computers MechJeb style because of those reasons.

Edited March 29, 2014 by helldiver

[TeeGee]

Hi again everyone, just FYI the KSO total cost that I built MINUS payload = 47350 kerbal dollars. Since its cargo hold can only carry 1 unit of station modules per launch, I am going to see if it truly is cost effective to launch a disposable rocket vs the KSO and at what point the 2 costs equilibrate and surpass each other.

[TeeGee]

It does neither. They pre-plan their mission years ahead of time and calculate how much fuel they'll be using and all that.

-CoL (the blue arrow tool) in the VAB is buggy. Sometimes replacing the fins with new ones clears it, sometimes it doesn't. Block 7 found in v2.08 has a whole new rear end (I grabbed the old one and trashed it), and the bug is still there.

-If you're just grabbing the stock craft file or building your own with the default fuel amounts then you're going to have too much fuel if you do an empty orbit run. If your tank on the KSO has too much fuel, then it has a high risk of tumbling on re-entry, possibly breaking apart (it's happened to me when returning with 250+ fuel).

-Flight characteristics and numbers are balanced to non-FAR, V-Tail. Any other configuration, including using FAR or trying to put a single tail on top NASA/Buran style, and I can't offer any help or advice.

-If you were pitching up on re-entry and lost control, that is a fuel issue (too much fuel). It also depends on what altitude you did that at, anything above 15km and it's weight/torque related. The wings and v-tail don't really kick in until below 15km.

-And finally, this isn't the real shuttle

PS: If we modeled it after the real NASA Space Shuttles or Buran, none of you would be able to fly it or do anything with it except for a very rare few players that would have the patience and skill to learn it. We'd have 10 times more complaints about how it handles than we have already. A lot of think those spacecraft handled perfectly on the T in space. The reality is they handled like ****, and took years of training in a simulator to even begin to get a basic grasp. Even then, they never tried anything risky and only flew by hand the final few minutes of it. Launch and pretty much everything else, 90% of a flight, was done by computers MechJeb style because of those reasons.

Yeah I cut the fuel down to 144 units, MORE than enough to make orbit of 100km/100km with or without payload.

I always cringe when I see KSO launches and see people burning the SSME AND OMS engines to circularize... that's NOT the way to maximize fuel for an ascent profile in the KSO.

Here is my ascent profile:

1) Launch normal until 7km, start turning to 45 degrees.

2) Seperate LBE and continue heading

3) When apoapsis hits 35 degress, start turning towards 10 degrees

4) When you see apoapsis of 50 km, you should be at or nearing 0 degree pitch.

5) Burn until apoapsis is whatever you desired.

6) MECO and coast.

7) RCS ON, SAS OFF and roll to have tank below you.

8) When reach Apoapsis, reactivate engines until Periapsis = approx 20km or more but NOT over 70km.

9) Shut off SSME, detach tank, turn on OMS and circularize.

98% of your orbit should be done by the SSME's.

If you do this correctly, you don't need to carry lots of fuel onboard the orbiter to make orbit changes etc.