[0.90] Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter System v4.13

[mike9606]

Just tried out the Super 25, and it is quite easy to get into orbit! I took the KSO EWCBL Block 4 and added docking ports and the Mechjeb KSO part, and called it the KSO EWCBL Block 5. THe only issue I have with it is getting into a circular orbit.

[Lekke]

Just tried out the Super 25, and it is quite easy to get into orbit! I took the KSO EWCBL Block 4 and added docking ports and the Mechjeb KSO part, and called it the KSO EWCBL Block 5. THe only issue I have with it is getting into a circular orbit.

Howso? Do you use MJ for that?

[Bomoo]

Small incompatibility I found while trying to build my own 25: the orange tank from the small KSO won't attach to the node any other way. I realize this isn't exactly supported within the KSO system, but I would greatly appreciate a tip on how I can fix it myself (i.e. how to rotate the node or what have you).

Edit: Never mind; got it. To attach the small KSO's orange tank, you need to change super25commandkso.cfg by making this alteration:

// Tank mount
node_stack_mount = 0, -0.40604, 1.51244, 0, 0, 1, 1

Fits perfectly with no clipping or anything.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Bomoo

[mike9606]

Howso? Do you use MJ for that?

I have mechjeb installed, but I fly the shuttle into orbit manually. I only used Mechjeb for circularizing the orbit.

[Lekke]

I have mechjeb installed, but I fly the shuttle into orbit manually. I only used Mechjeb for circularizing the orbit.

Yeah, with the small KSO you could solve the node dancing with adding a 3rd OMS but on the KSO Super 25 that's not possible, I'm afraid there isn't a work around for it at the moment. To reduce node dancing you could always increase the tolerance to 1 instead of 0.1. You can change this on the maneuver plannner.

[mike9606]

Just did my first Super 25 Mission with a payload. The first flight had no payload and only served the purpose to let me feel how the Super 25 flies, but I screwed up the landing and had to land in the sea. This mission with the payload is KCTS 002. The payload is simply a Mk-1-2 command pod, 2 radial parachutes on that command pod, a pancake fuel tank, an adapter, the docking port used to attach it to the shuttle, and a LV-909 engine. I actually managed to dock with it using the docking port I put behind the Mun Door.

[nukeboyt]

I made a hard landing at the island landing strip SE of KSC. Upon coming to a stop, I realized that the crew is gone! Is is possible to land so hard as to kill the crew but not destroy the ship?

[TheReaper]

Hello guys,

for start i was very happy for this upload downloaded it right away and launched a test flight to randevouz with my allready or bitting standart kso, not so long after i reilized there are some problems.

First:

This is my standart KSO design, it has 3 OMX that allow me for a more stable,efficient,easier thrust and control in space.

This is the new KSO fuselage, it doesnt have the attachment point ,yeah i should keep top main engine and 2 omx s on and 14 degree trim, .. well no, new kso has very big stability failures, even that trick creates some unwanted torque.

To further make my flight and life harder and painfull, RCS unbalance is seriously underrated in the texts given, nearly any movement torques my craft to somewhere (yeah the extra torque thing with nose..not helping much)

anyhow i managed to keep my craft on the trajectory allthough that was a pain, i came close to randevous and dock, and i noticed a whole new problem, even when i turn OFF the RCS the spacecrafts self torque itself applies phantom movements to my trajectory, only noticeable if i am looking at target navball with very little relative velocty but it sure is annoy to make it harder and annoying. turning arraund moves my prograde vector allraound, as if rcs wasnt needed at all, i dont know maybe its a physics failure of the game with the new patch but stabilty upgrades are very much needed in this place. this is a very good upgrade i can have my shuttle to mun if i add fuel tanks to cargo hold but playing it is very annoying for me at the moment and couldnt really enjoy it in its current state.

[mike9606]

What mods are you using with the KSO? Deadly Re-entry makes it possible for G-Forces to kill kerbals so if you have that installed then yes, but otherwise I am not sure what would cause that. Maybe you left the crew in space and flew back unmanned. The AR202 part from Mechjeb can act as a probe body.

[Lekke]

I made a hard landing at the island landing strip SE of KSC. Upon coming to a stop, I realized that the crew is gone! Is is possible to land so hard as to kill the crew but not destroy the ship?

http://i.imgur.com/rR1XT2E.png

To my knowledge that should not be possible unless you are running a mod that makes it possible. But still one tuff ship .

[mike9606]

Hello guys,

for start i was very happy for this upload downloaded it right away and launched a test flight to randevouz with my allready or bitting standart kso, not so long after i reilized there are some problems.

First:

This is my standart KSO design, it has 3 OMX that allow me for a more stable,efficient,easier thrust and control in space.

http://s9.postimg.org/juubyxvlb/screenshot122.png

This is the new KSO fuselage, it doesnt have the attachment point ,yeah i should keep top main engine and 2 omx s on and 14 degree trim, .. well no, new kso has very big stability failures, even that trick creates some unwanted torque.

http://s9.postimg.org/xzvjn0f8v/screenshot123.png

To further make my flight and life harder and painfull, RCS unbalance is seriously underrated in the texts given, nearly any movement torques my craft to somewhere (yeah the extra torque thing with nose..not helping much)

anyhow i managed to keep my craft on the trajectory allthough that was a pain, i came close to randevous and dock, and i noticed a whole new problem, even when i turn OFF the RCS the spacecrafts self torque itself applies phantom movements to my trajectory, only noticeable if i am looking at target navball with very little relative velocty but it sure is annoy to make it harder and annoying. turning arraund moves my prograde vector allraound, as if rcs wasnt needed at all, i dont know maybe its a physics failure of the game with the new patch but stabilty upgrades are very much needed in this place. this is a very good upgrade i can have my shuttle to mun if i add fuel tanks to cargo hold but playing it is very annoying for me at the moment and couldnt really enjoy it in its current state.

The Super 25 works fine for me, it feels VERY heavy when trying to turn in space, make sure the tail RCS ports are on, I myself find no problem with using them and they help with the slow turning. The only times I have seen RCS imbalance that causes issues is when trying to translate sideways with the Super 25. The other mods you use may effect it though.

[nukeboyt]

What mods are you using with the KSO? Deadly Re-entry makes it possible for G-Forces to kill kerbals so if you have that installed then yes, but otherwise I am not sure what would cause that. Maybe you left the crew in space and flew back unmanned. The AR202 part from Mechjeb can act as a probe body.

I am not using Deadly Re-entry and this was my 2nd mission in the EWBCL. No cargo, no EVA's. Just a quick polar orbit & landing. First mission was uneventful.

[mike9606]

I am not using Deadly Re-entry and this was my 2nd mission in the EWBCL. No cargo, no EVA's. Just a quick polar orbit & landing. First mission was uneventful.

That's weird. I suspect the kraken. Try looking through your output_log.txt in your KSP_Data. It should say what happened.

[Bomoo]

Also if you want to create a small savings in the mod's memory footprint, you can use the stock 1.25m docking port by making the following alteration to super25commandkso.cfg:

node_stack_bay03 = 0, 0.4896, -1.1, 0, 0, 1, 1

[TheReaper]

The Super 25 works fine for me, it feels VERY heavy when trying to turn in space, make sure the tail RCS ports are on, I myself find no problem with using them and they help with the slow turning. The only times I have seen RCS imbalance that causes issues is when trying to translate sideways with the Super 25. The other mods you use may effect it though.

to my remembering i remember using a lot of sideways translations in my test flight , it coused a lot of rotation and some movement to push nose up or down so turning sideways also moves my ship by both pitch and rotation , maybe that bothered me a little,but none of this can cause my non rcs turns the push my craft around,turning with rcs on have some effect on your prograde vector in any vehicle but the shuttle has this on a much bigger scale and yeah i had the tail rcs ports on, helps a little and it does feel a bit heavy even with like half the fuel tank and nothing in cargo hold,i dont think i am using any other mod that would couse rcs failures, texture mods and completely unrelated part mods, not even mechjebb or scansat that kso seem to have a support on for IVA screens. regardless, the adding of a 3rd oms spot and some upgrades will be usefull for everyone, regardless if they are actuallng having any problems or not

Edited June 22, 2014 by TheReaper

[PapkoBodrik]

game freezes when loading and have to kill the process via Task Manager help

(google-translate)

[mike9606]

to my remembering i remember using a lot of sideways translations in my test flight , it coused a lot of rotation and some movement to push nose up or down so turning sideways also moves my ship by both pitch and rotation , maybe that bothered me a little,but none of this can cause my non rcs turns the push my craft around,turning with rcs on have some effect on your prograde vector in any vehicle but the shuttle has this on a much bigger scale and yeah i had the tail rcs ports on, helps a little and it does feel a bit heavy even with like half the fuel tank and nothing in cargo hold,i dont think i am using any other mod that would couse rcs failures, texture mods and completely unrelated part mods, not even mechjebb or scansat that kso seem to have a support on for IVA screens. regardless, the adding of a 3rd oms spot and some upgrades will be usefull for everyone, regardless if they are actuallng having any problems or not

Honestly, since the Super 25 without a payload can get into orbit without even fully using the external tank, I have yet to use the OMS on the Super 25.

Edited June 22, 2014 by mike9606

[nukeboyt]

That's weird. I suspect the kraken. Try looking through your output_log.txt in your KSP_Data. It should say what happened.

Can't explain it and can't re-create it. I must have launched without a crew in the first place.

[mike9606]

I have landed the Super 25 for the first time on land. The mission KCTS 002 was to send up a Kerthena Crew module, release it, and dock to it. 3 kerbals from the flight deck went back to kerbin in it, leaving Jebediah, Bill, and Bob in the shuttle. This was the first time I have landed a shuttle on the runway. This is actually the second time I have landed a KSO shuttle, the first being with the normal KSO, but I missed the runway and ended up besides the runway.

[Woodstar]

Great work Helldiver, I couldn't reply last night I was in the middle of multiple joygasims when I seen you released it!

[Agent30632]

Horray! KSO Phase 3 is out! 1 day after I had just installed it...

(Dammit)

[Sochin]

I just noticed that aswell, especially when you nose up on approach you get around a 10° left bank. Other than that she's a heavy girl but damn nice.

[Lekke]

game freezes when loading and have to kill the process via Task Manager help

(google-translate)

You need to install active texture management to get it to work.

[Neutrinovore]

Hey, Helldiver, congrats on the release of the Super 25! I've downloaded it, and am about to install.

But, after watching Nazari's video, which is really cool btw, , I have something to say that I know you're not going to want to hear. Here goes...

The rear landing gear, on BOTH shuttles, is TOO FAR FORWARD. Yes, I know, you've heard this before from other people (who were and are right, btw), and wanted nothing to do with the issue. I also know that you personally think that placing the landing gear where you have makes the shuttles "Look Cool", and that you have sworn to never break the "Rule of Cool". And that's all fine, these excellent craft are your creations and you have every right to make them however you want.

The thing is, if you observe the 'real' Space Shuttles (may they R.I.P.), you will note that the rear gear is quite a bit farther to the rear of the ship, and there is one very simple, very LOGICAL reason for this: It is so that the Shuttle can come in nose-high, flaring into a 'wing in ground effect' state, and touch down on the runway without striking the tail surfaces. The farther forward the rear gear is located, the lower the possible angle-of-attack. The only other solution would be to make the landing gear taller, but first of all that would look silly, definitely violating your 'RoC', and also it would create strength, weight, and packaging issues inside the structure, so that's why they don't do it IRL. They make the gear a reasonable length, and they locate the wheels farther back.

I am actually a bit confused as to why you resist this reasoning, mainly because the only reason for such placement (aside from how it looks, I mean) would be to make the craft easier to rotate for takeoff, like a jetliner needs, which you've clearly stated several times to several different posters that this shuttle, just like with all 'true' Shuttles, isn't designed to take off like an airplane, only to land like one. So, the question becomes, "Why would it matter if the rear gear were located farther rearward, if the ship would and should never take off like an airplane?" If anything, it would make the thing a HELL of a lot easier to land, right? I have no idea how many people have posted on this thread about how hard this is to land, and I'm betting that they don't mean 'it's really hard to find and line up with the runway', although I'm sure that's part of it. No, I think the problem is more along the lines of 'everything is going great until I actually LAND, but whenever I do, the back end of the Shuttle breaks off and explodes, which in turn causes the rest of the plane to turn into a fiery pinwheel of death as it careens down the runway'.

Okay, I may be using just a touch of poetic license there with that last part, but I think you get my point.

Anyway, I still really dig everything you've done for KSP, and the only reason I don't have the complete KSO installed right now is that I'm having a severe problem with parts-bloat, mainly because I WANT ALL THE PARTS!!! Heh heh... . And, since the KSO Phase I couldn't handle full 2.5 meter parts, it was kind of a 'do I really REALLY need it?' question. But now that the Super 25 is out, I'm pretty sure that it's going to stay in there permanently. Sigh, I just don't know exactly what I'll have to delete now though.

So, just to recap, I have nothing but good things to say about ALL of the KSO mods, and I only raise the landing-gear-location issue as a matter of philosophical difference, if you will.

Kudos again, Helldiver, keep on keepin' on!

[cpast]

The real shuttle's landing gear is *not* far forward. You fundamentally misunderstand the functionality of the main gear when you consider it the "rear landing gear". The main gear holds the weight of the shuttle. Nose gear cannot hold that weight; main gear can. It's a *structural* thing. In KSP, you get used to the idea that all landing gear is about the same in weight capacity, but that's not even close to the truth - for instance, the real Space Shuttle nose gear can support under half the weight that either main gear can support, and less than a quarter of what the left and right gear together can support. Nose gear is mostly there to balance a craft; you don't use it for large loads.

When looking at the Shuttle landing gear, note that the center of mass is between 65% and 68% back from the front of the craft (the main gear must be behind here).

The claim that it came in at high flare is wrong; it had an angle of attack of around 15 degrees on touchdown, which is in line with commercial airliners.