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as far as you can drive oxygen-breathing car

JtPB

By JtPB
in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas

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JtPB

JtPB

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try to get as far as you can only with wheels & engine altenator.

rules:

- stock only

- no batterys

- no solar panels or isotope generator

- its banned to use the engines to fly over the surface. place them where they cant lift the vehicle up.

- no launch-and-land, except the destination is beyond the sea & theres no dry path to there.

categorys:

- the lightest

- the fastest

- the steepest the vehicle climbed(i think you can do transmission with thrust, didnt try that. also you can compete the highest place you got, but thats probably nonrelevant).

- the furthest the vehicle got without refueling.

+1 if the vehicle is manned.

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JtPB

JtPB

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Are the engines allowed to be used as propulsion?

you mean as a nitro booster? no, all their function is to generate electricity that the wheels can use.

thus battery & another generator except the alternator in the engine are banned, so the car is fully gasoline-consuming-like.

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Kasuha

Kasuha

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- no batterys

Technically it is not possible.

Once I tried to make a rover without batteries, I put just wheels, solar panels and a chair on a girder. It did not run. Electricity must be stored in a battery in order to be used by wheels. Not necessarily the "battery" part, but anything that can hold the electric charge resource. Many parts have certain battery capacity. For instance command pods.

So instead of "no batteries" rule I'd suggest to put some ceiling on maximum permitted battery capacity. 100 or 200 units might be ok, you won't go anywhere far just on that.

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Norcurion

Norcurion

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Posted (edited)

That thing crashed over a hilltop while i was afk, so i can't give you any precice numbers, but i can provide you some rough numbers...

Two jet engines running with two radial intakes and about 40% Trust had enough power for 4 tr-2L Ruggedized wheels

The amount of speed gained is IMO not linear with the number of wheels powered, so i think to max out the range it is best to use just two powerd wheels and switch off the motor on the other wheels

Probably the amount of energy provided is only depending on the thrust lever, not on the amount of air take in... after a short test i think it's better to have only one air intake with the least drag.

I'm not in town the next 4 days, but after that i'll give it a real try

In this config, the two wheels powered (aft) need only a little under 1/3 engine thrust, and the speed is only 3 m/s slower than with two intakes and all wheels powered

jy2IIaW.jpg

Technically it is not possible.

It is possible, because the jet engines double as batteries and store minimal amounts (see pic, it has only the battery in the cockpit, and this battery is offline)

But nevertheless i think you are right...

Every command pod has a battery. Are we allowed to use it or do we need to switch it off ?

I think a little engergy reserve is ok, because it helps you to store the bits of power that are produced over the need of the wheels, increasing the range

Maybe batts ar okay, but they all have to be empty at start?

Edited by Norcurion
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JtPB

JtPB

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Technically it is not possible.

Once I tried to make a rover without batteries, I put just wheels, solar panels and a chair on a girder. It did not run. Electricity must be stored in a battery in order to be used by wheels. Not necessarily the "battery" part, but anything that can hold the electric charge resource. Many parts have certain battery capacity. For instance command pods.

So instead of "no batteries" rule I'd suggest to put some ceiling on maximum permitted battery capacity. 100 or 200 units might be ok, you won't go anywhere far just on that.

i meant using only the battery that already placed in command pods. The chair probably doesnt contain battery by itself, so you need to add the rover body that contains 25 bit of power. Just aim to use the least electric capacity you can, so the wheels' motors will be almost fully fuel-operated.
That thing crashed over a hilltop while i was afk, so i can't give you any precice numbers, but i can provide you some rough numbers...

Two jet engines running with two radial intakes and about 40% Trust had enough power for 4 tr-2L Ruggedized wheels

The amount of speed gained is IMO not linear with the number of wheels powered, so i think to max out the range it is best to use just two powerd wheels and switch off the motor on the other wheels

Probably the amount of energy provided is only depending on the thrust lever, not on the amount of air take in... after a short test i think it's better to have only one air intake with the least drag.

I'm not in town the next 4 days, but after that i'll give it a real try

In this config, the two wheels powered (aft) need only a little under 1/3 engine thrust, and the speed is only 3 m/s slower than with two intakes and all wheels powered

http://i.imgur.com/jy2IIaW.jpg

It is possible, because the jet engines double as batteries and store minimal amounts (see pic, it has only the battery in the cockpit, and this battery is offline)

But nevertheless i think you are right...

Every command pod has a battery. Are we allowed to use it or do we need to switch it off ?

I think a little engergy reserve is ok, because it helps you to store the bits of power that are produced over the need of the wheels, increasing the range

Maybe batts ar okay, but they all have to be empty at start?

no, you have to use some minimal electric capicity, but you need to simulate gasoline car so dont use many batteries. The one in the cockpit need to be enough. (or in the rover body if you want to build an open car, as i said above)

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JtPB

JtPB

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http://i.imgur.com/jeX0MPv.jpg

no batterys exept for the engine... and it works... tadaaa....

Can you show us your data? Whats the furthest geographic location you got with this?

now BTW, i tried to use the fuel in non-jet tanks as a jet propolusion, without the oxydizer. say what - it works. Keep that in mind when you planning your next SSTO or space shuttle.

Edited by JtPB
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Kasuha

Kasuha

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http://i.imgur.com/jeX0MPv.jpg

no batterys exept for the engine... and it works... tadaaa....

I fear it may have major problems climbing uphill. But I'm not sure how big the engine's internal battery is.

It should be possible with just one engine if you block its exhaust by something fireproof to stop it providing thrust.

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Norcurion

Norcurion

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I fear it may have major problems climbing uphill. But I'm not sure how big the engine's internal battery is.

It should be possible with just one engine if you block its exhaust by something fireproof to stop it providing thrust.

The car had no problems driving at flats. The engines ar not running at 100% ... i can throttle up if the wheels need more juice ;)

Ill try out ramps

Can you show us your data? Whats the furthest geographic location you got with this?

now BTW, i tried to use the fuel in non-jet tanks as a jet propolusion, without the oxydizer. say what - it works. Keep that in mind when you planning your next SSTO or space shuttle.

I did't have the time to drive the tank empty;) this was a mere tech demo. But i think it will have about 100-200 km range at least. (the first one drove 30 kilometers and had over 80% fuel left)

EDIT: 504/560 Fuel left ~ 10% used, 18 km --> an estimate 180 km range (update as soon as the tanks are driven empty

(the seperation event in the picture is from the kerbal supporting capsule, its jettisoned befor starting the drive)

q3OwKtB.jpg

EDIT2: crashed the car with a jump, but know now that the wheels drain the same amount of energy no matter how steep the hill is, the speed is just slower... the car can go uphill, just in the case the wheels dont have enough power i have to activate the motors in the other two wheels and double the thrust of the jet engines

b22ce3e.jpg

Edited by Norcurion
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JtPB

JtPB

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The car had no problems driving at flats. The engines ar not running at 100% ... i can throttle up if the wheels need more juice ;)

Ill try out ramps

I did't have the time to drive the tank empty;) this was a mere tech demo. But i think it will have about 100-200 km range at least. (the first one drove 30 kilometers and had over 80% fuel left)

EDIT: 504/560 Fuel left ~ 10% used, 18 km --> an estimate 180 km range (update as soon as the tanks are driven empty

(the seperation event in the picture is from the kerbal supporting capsule, its jettisoned befor starting the drive)

http://i.imgur.com/q3OwKtB.jpg

EDIT2: crashed the car with a jump, but know now that the wheels drain the same amount of energy no matter how steep the hill is, the speed is just slower... the car can go uphill, just in the case the wheels dont have enough power i have to activate the motors in the other two wheels and double the thrust of the jet engines

http://i.imgur.com/b22ce3e.jpg

Did you use action group assignment for toggling the climbing transmission? It could make your control on the car more comfort

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MarvinKitFox

MarvinKitFox

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UPDATED 26 feb, Updated again 27 Feb. Many pics, but LOOKATIT!! wow, didn't think it was up to doing THAT!!!

Final update, late 27 feb. COMPLETE!

============

If in doubt, think big.

Meet the SHONGOLOLO (from image 4 onwards, first 3 from its predecessor, BuG )

A Mere 184 tons, 106 tons as fuel.

(4*) 3 * rockomax x200-16 tanks, full of fuel but oxy drained. Two jet engines facing Port&Starboard for generator power on each segment.

Scaffolding for a nice wide suspension (no tipping this baby!). 4 of the biggest wheels I could lay my hands on.

Guidance by a reliable stayputnik probe.

Super-flexible segment joins by using double dockings around a single x200-16 tank as vertebra.

And one Jeb, upside-down in the front toolbox, to jump out and fix blown tyres. No, he doesn't steer. He can't even look out. His job is to fix blowouts, and nothing else!

.craft file, for the curious. Mods needed Machjeb, of course.. several others, but none of their parts used.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o3ip06zykpqubyb/BuG%20II.craft

Performance:

With front axle(s) powered, rear axle(s) unpowered and steering-locked, this baby cruises at 9.8m/s, using 0.06 fuel per second. That's enough fuel for 360000 seconds (100 hours ! ! ! ! !)

With jets burning full power, and all axles churning, maximum slope is about 22 degrees uphill. Downhill, anything steeper than 15 degrees causes runaway train kaboom. No mountains for this guy. But also no tipping danger.

Do not exceed 23m/s, ever, due to an unexplained ripple-effect standing wave forming along the spine, ripping its guts out.

To comply with the rules for this challenge, I have removed all batteries. Only the capsule battery functions, and it starts empty.

Shongololo ver 1.0 got to the inland paiaries (grasslands north of the first mountains), but I never was happy with its stability. kept of curving off to left or right, no pattern.

Finally found the cause: one, ONE!! set of struts had been placed manually, without automatic symmetry. Back to shop, replace the strut. Tweak Jeb's ladder a drop, so he is less likely to explode when falling off the ladder.

Redo trip!

Current distance covered: Dunno. As the vehicle is never "launched", the tripmeter is resetting itself all the time. I have used about 65% of my fuel, and have reached 2/3-3/4 of the way to the second Space Centre.

Map shows me a river in the way, with visible fording spots.

MAP LIES!!!

Gwarsh, I didn't know Kerbin has a Grand Canyon. The river is some 550 meters below the plains!

Still, there is a dry fordable spot, if i can get down..

Down: maxx angle 27 degrees. Many,MANY f5-f9 cycles later, I have learned how to handle an articulated steampunk land-train down a steep slope.

Upslope is even steeper, but no problem. Even at 32.8 degrees, Shongololo crawls steadily up the incline, speed only about 0.4m/s though.

Phew!

The traverse took almost 4 hours, and i think it put me in the red for fuel budget. will see, it looks like smooth plains from here on.

P.S.

With the strut positioning fixed, my tyre blowouts are MUCH less frequent. Only about 12 repairs for the whole trip so far, compared to 60+ for version 1, just to cover first 100km.

Final report.

As I dropped the last Waggon, and then the last droptank linkage, Shongololo was flying!

IT was very responsive, very steerable, stabile at 25m/s++

It could also do this AT WARP x4 !!!, making the last 300 km of the trip over level grasslands a breeze.

I crest a hill, and before me I see the Holy Grail of the explorer. The lost city of KSC-2!!

Wow, i just gotta stop for a selfie, I thought, and slammed on the brakes.

.

.

.

While cruising at 25m/s

.

.

.

While under timewarp x4.

BADABING CLASH bOOOOM!

.

Somehow, Jeb survived. Yes! I slam f5.

Nooooooooooooooooooo!

Ok, gamestate saved, Shongololo in advanced state of RUD, KSC-2 on the horizon.

The Journey Ends Here.

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Edited by MarvinKitFox
The Journey Ends. Final report
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OTehNoes

OTehNoes

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Gasoline type car? Cars have batteries and Alternators. The Battery of course provides energy to the power steering, stereo, On board computer. The alternator keeps the battery charged while it's running.

The idea here is that you're using the liquid fuel to run the alternator in the jet engines like a generator to provide electricity for the wheels to work.

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