Lucid Dreaming

[DonLorenzo]

A particular thread in the Science Labs about the biological underpinnings of dreaming has been derailed a bit courtesy of yours truly, so I'm doing an unofficial 'split' in an effort to continue that conversation here and stop hijacking the sleep thread.

Here's the conversation so far:

I've also heard somewhere that sometimes people can REALIZE AND KNOW that they're dreaming while its happening, and can wake themselves up if they want, or can alter the dream to their will, how does this happen?

And I heard "lucid dreaming" somewhere else, what does this mean?

You're in luck, you're talking to one of those magic dreamwalkers

Realizing that you're dreaming is not so crazy as you make it out to be. In essence it's no difference than realizing that your senses are fallible and things are not as they seem. Compare it to knowing that 'movies are not real'. Ofcourse while dreaming the realization is a bit more.. shall we say immersive. As to controlling the dream once you know it is in fact a dream, this isn't so outlandish a concept either. Consider these sort of figures: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinning_Dancer where the big question is 'DO THEY SPIN CLOCK- OR COUNTERCLOCKWISE???' The answer is neither, since it's a 2d figurine. The perceived direction is controlled only by you. Once you realize this you may be able to 'control' which way the figurine appears to turn. There you have it, conscious control of the perceived world. Again, in a 'dreamworld' such control is a bit more immersive

Chances are that you've been lucid dreaming before, or even often, but you don't remember it. If you want to get into it (and it's something anyone can learn and practice, and it's pretty fun!) the first step is to learn remembering your dreams. There's no night where you don't dream. Doesn't exist. So for every night that you've got no recollection of a dream, you've forgotten one. If that was one where you were lucid and did all kinds of awesome stuff, too bad! One good trick is to keep a dream journal and record your dreams directly upon waking. It doesn't have to be page long prose, just a few keywords will suffice. You'll probably remember instances where you wake up from a vivid dream, remembering it all but having it slip away in but a few minutes. In this case, lie still in bed, move as little as possible while consciously repeating the memories to yourself over and over again until you're confident you'll make it to your dream journal without forgetting them.

Once you're consisently remembering your dreams, it's time to start getting lucid. The key to doing that is to somehow realize that you're dreaming, that the world you currently reside in is NOT in fact real. It sounds almost impossible (most outlandish things in dreams appear normal, after all) but fortunately there are a few tricks. An obvious one is jumping out of a window and seeing if you die, but for obvious reason that's not quite so good a test (I did do it once, and fortunately it did turn out to be a dream! Funnily enough I did then dream that I fell REALLY HARD and hurt myself good). Naturally what exactly works varies from person to person but here are a few things to get you started that work with about 90% of people.

-Machinery: any kind of technology often straight up doesn't work in dreams or performs other than it should. If you find yourself in a car that doesn't control as it should, facing a printer that will print nothing but water or in front of a fridge that contains only pick elephants of sugar you might be dreaming. Make it a point to consciously consider if the device you're handling is performing a reasonable function. If you wear a digital watch have a look at it every now and then, does the time make sense? If not (say: 7778:22 or a picture of a tree or something) then you might be dreaming!

-Consistency: In a dream things are more fluid than in reality. If you suspect you're dreaming, inspect something, look away and then inspect it again. Has it changed? You're probably dreaming. It helps if you try to mentally change something. For instance look at a bush and see normal leaves, look away and look back and try to fully expect observing square, yellow or otherwise outlandish leaves.

When you get more practiced it will usually be enough to just routinely think 'Am I dreaming?' If you can't recall a sequence of events leading up to what you're experiencing now, you might be! But in the beginning it's easier to go with 'tangible' tests. It might help to wear a digital watch of the kind that beeps every hour or so and make it a point to do a reality check then. Keep the watch by your bed as well and hopefully the beep qill cue the check whilst dreaming and.... bingo!

So, you've done one of these things and now you suspect you're dreaming, what now?! You need to make sure. Don't immediately start going nuts or what have you (yes, you're gonna go nuts). MAKE SURE first.

What I like to do is try a small supernatural feat. Say jumping up into the air and not falling down. No superman jumps, just hovering a few inches above the ground. Or try and change the ambient lighting by snapping fingers, trying to raise or lower the sun. Teleporting somewhere else. Spawning things or people. Blasting a fireball. Whatever floats your boat. If that works, then you're sure. Go nuts!

One thing I've noticed is that (for me at any rate) doing anything supernatural is very much like in the movie 'The Matrix'. It took me many times to learn how to consistently be able to fly and such. Along the way I faceplanted LOTS. You have to really really believe the things you want to do. Your mileage may vary obviously, but I've adopted one of two paradigms; One is of magic, where I draw mana from a pool inside me and use it to cast spells or do whatever and the other is more Sci-fi, where I pull up an overlay over the dream and do whatever I want to do through there. They sometimes work, sometimes not. Experiment.

If you do get into it, you'll learn to recognize in what stage of sleep you're in whilst dreaming. Some have the dream be more detailed, or lit/unlit. Some even have dreams with only partial sensory immersion. Again, your mileage may vary but I found that as I approached waking up my dream would 'lose resolution' or horizon. Meaning things would become blurry and bland and I couldn't see so far anymore. This could sometimes be partially fixed by concentrating or spinning really fast (a trick to change scenery, or teleport). Maybe I was postponing waking up, maybe not. Quite hard to tell really

One more note before I'll conclude this rambling post, and this is a good trick. It turns out that MANY MANY dreams, lucid or not, actually begin with a 'false awakening'. That is, you dream that you wake up. Make it a habit to do a reality check immediately after waking up ALWAYS. I can't count the times how often I've 'woken up' and it wasn't actually true. I've counted strings of fake wake-ups as long as fifteen. It's really the best, when you think you have to get up to go to work and it turns out that NOPE, still asleep, still got godmode LETS GO AGAIN. Yep. It's fun.

This might warrant a thread of its own but heck, it's sleep related

Ok, how long would it take to do all this?

And would it be possible to bring things I think up in consciousness Ie some kind of massive city into this "dream world"? And if I were to like paint a building in this city, then wake up and dream again the next night would I come back to where I was or would it be like restarted?

Would I also be able to like be in one city like dream, then think myself in some other theme, and everything would change to that theme?

Those are things that are rather impossible to tell you, as I'm sure they vary a lot from person to person. I can tell you my experience though:

1. From deciding I wanted to do lucid dreaming to having my first lucid dream? less than a week I think. Motivation is a big part here. If it sounds great to you and you're looking forward to it, chances are it's gonna happen. This is one of those things that's really 'all in the mind'. Make yourself determined to do this. Decide before you go to bed 'I'm going to have a lucid dream tonight!' You can even decide in advance what it's going to be about. Does this work 100% No, you'll find most of these things don't. But they do work. Learning how to consistently remember dreams was very gradual for me. It just slowly got better and better. I'm sure I still forget many awesome adventures. One thing that does help a lot is getting enough sleep and not being too stressed out. Take your time to sleep. It sounds weird maybe but don't watch TV or be on the computer right up until the moment you go to bed. Tuck in, turn out the lights and take a few minutes to relax, maybe do some meditation where you focus on what and how you want to dream about. Then sleep.

2. As to what is possible, pretty much all you can imagine. Don't expect it to be like a game though where you turn on godmode and everything works the first time. Many things take practice, just like in the real world. It's just that they're pure mental skills and tricks with no real-world counterpart. Many of it will be completely new and won't come natural at all. Or it might. No way to tell really. For me it took lots of time to learn how to fly, and once I did I thought it was awesome. That was until I went bungee-jumping in the real world once, from that point on my dream-flights had the extra sensation of rushing air over my face and body. I suppose it got added because I experienced it once for real. Never did do that on purpose. It also varies from dream to dream. Sometimes I'll walk around like everything is a simulation, spawning people, shaping the world and doing things I couldn't very well write about in public. Other times I try that and it doesn't work. Yet other times the lucidity is on again/off again. I'll be lucid for a bit, but then something will happen in the dream and I'll forget that it's a dream. Then later I might 'snap out of it' again. Or not. It varies. Something that sometimes happens to me is that I'll get some sort of semi-lucidity. I know that I'm dreaming, but am still not really in control. The narrative goes on, but instead of active control I get a weird sort of precognition of a few seconds. I always wonder afterwards if the dream is 'decided' by some non-lucid part of me and I get a peek behind the scenes, or if the precognition is a fugasi and it's actually what's driving the narrative.

3. As for consistency from dream to dream, for me there's virtually none, apart from within myself. I'll remember tricks that worked and tricks that didn't. I'll try new stuff, or repeat old stuff that was fun. But the actual environments, characters, goings on and so forth are usually fresh every time. So what you're describing of building a vibrant and persistent dream world that you can visit and return to seems impossible to me. Yet if your memory is good and consistent enough perhaps you can do it. The only way I could imagine that is upon reaching lucidity to quickly rebuild that particular world. Then again it's not something I've tried, and as it's all in the mind anyway; if you decide that dream X is going to be permanent, who knows, it might be!

Returning to how long it would take you to 'learn' this stuff, that answer would range from instant to infinity. I'd hazard a guess that if you try and do those 'reality checks' often (find cues that happen a lot, say a background noise, passing through a door or something mundane like that and do one everytime you encounter that) you'll have your first lucid dream within days. It's different for everyone though and it might take longer. Chances are you'll be so excited when it first happens you'll immediately wake up due to the adrenaline surge. If that happens, do remember to do your post-wakeup check, it could be a fake wakeup!

Above all, see it as a fun thing to do whilst sleeping. Some people might tell you that 'you're messing with unknown and dangerous energies' or that you should 'watch out that you don't become lost and never wake up' or 'make sure not to kill yourself in the dream!!'. I've heard it all, and after ample experimentation I'm fairly sure there's no black hoodoo magic that's gonna kill you. It's just a fun trick. Like making the dancer spin counter- or clockwise.

I've tried to outline a rough spectrum of principles and tricks, there's a lot more nuance to be had in that regard. Just enter 'lucid dreaming' into google and find many forums, sites, books and even gadgets to help you lucid dream (there's apps that make your phone whisper 'You're dreaming!' every now and then. Or headbands that flash lights in your eyes. I've never dabbled but hey, could work!) One thing I found is to read as much about it and other people's experiences, gets you in the right mood and you might have your first tonight

So there's that. I hope this will become a nice thread of amazing and unreal experiences, undoubtedly censored heavily for untenable and salacious conduct in one of the last truly private spaces

[relin]

I have two tricks for becoming lucid. The first is courtesy of Waking Life.

When I'm awake, I got into the habit of checking light switches whenever I happen to be near one. Lights, like many mechanical objects, don't work as expected. Often, they won't change lighting at all, and if they do, it's delayed or underwhelming. Of course, you can't always mess with the lighting while you're awake, so I have a backup tactic.

Find a book or magazine and see what it says. I've noticed that titles and phrases will be complete and legible, but rarely the copy itself.

[Deadpangod3]

Ok, so I should start by trying to remember my dreams, writing them down every morning when I wake up.

Then, once I accomplish the above I should start concentrating on realizing I'm dreaming when I am, and mess with stuff and make sure their right and stuff to figure out when I'm dreaming or not, and make sure I don't fake wake up.

And finally start trying to learn stuff inside the dreams, like flying, etc?

When I get the the second part should I start small and like try to dream of spending a day at home or something?

Or does it matter at all what I try to dream the first few times?

[Superfluous J]

Back when I used to try this, I found the most useful thing was - as Deadpangod3 said - writing down my dreams and in particular noting points in them where I should have noticed I was in a dream. This got me in a mental state to look for these things in general.

However, I'm lazy by nature and can't be bothered to write these things down. I tried using my phone (which has a qwerty keyboard) even and no go.

[DonLorenzo]

Ok, so I should start by trying to remember my dreams, writing them down every morning when I wake up.

Then, once I accomplish the above I should start concentrating on realizing I'm dreaming when I am, and mess with stuff and make sure their right and stuff to figure out when I'm dreaming or not, and make sure I don't fake wake up.

And finally start trying to learn stuff inside the dreams, like flying, etc?

When I get the the second part should I start small and like try to dream of spending a day at home or something?

Or does it matter at all what I try to dream the first few times?

It doesn't really matter. I've laid out things for you in that order, but it doesn't have to be a chronological order. Practising, learning etc. are all kind of contingent on actually remembering what's going on (and recalling that you had fun is nice too) but it's not like full dream recall is an actual prequisite. So go ahead and do it all at once

As to what you 'should' do in those lucid dreams, there's really no one that can tell you. Try it all and see what is nice for you For me, one of the fun things I would do was go to a high place, dive down face-down and stop 1mm from the ground. Now what I do is take some nice scenery and just relax. No smartphones, no facebook, no phone calls, just me and my thoughts (and the occasional dream oddity), which can be very nice. Sometimes (but not often!) it's the other way around where I crave some action and excitement and I'll do that. One of the first things I tried ever was.. ahem.. spawning a willing and gorgeous lady. When that worked I thought why stop at one? In the end I had a warehouse full of them and things got kind a little out of control. Sometimes my control won't be complete. For instance I've tried changing the scene by teleporting somewhere or just outright changing everything. Didn't work that time. So I went smaller and instead created a taxi that would then take me somewhere else.

Yet another time it'd be a social dream where I'd not gained full recognition but enough to use some special 'powers' like controlling others/turning them into dust/spawning friends.

I don't know, maybe it all sounds a bit insane, but I think the best thing to recognize (and what I'm trying to illustrate) is that lucid dreams, just as regular dreams, will vary a lot and IMO it's best just to roll with it and experiment. One thing I predict you will be blown away by at first is how vivid and, well, REAL things seem. Dream memories are often fuzzy, not so while it's going on. I remember standing on the side of some dreamy mountain road and just spending an amount of time going 'holy **** holy **** holy **** holy **** WTF THIS IS HD *****es'

On a related note, I just woke up and after all this dream talk I'd tried to get lucid (it's been a while) but I don't remember a thing. Oh well!

[DonLorenzo]

Oh and another thing that I found interesting is that it is hard to the point of impossible for me to dream things that I've not actually experienced. Now I've never experienced teleporting, fireballs, unassisted flying and the like, so this goes more for the smaller chunks of things. For instance I have experienced fire, and know how radiated heat feels. I know what falling through the air feels like, I know what jumping feels like and I know what different places feel like so going between one and the other isn't really a thing. What I'm trying to say is that for me all those amazing and extraordinary things in dreams are all cobbled together out of bits and pieces of actual experiences, which I think isn't so surprising. My brain (and I think yours too) turns out to be not at all good at simulating a completely novel environment. I can do it visually, I can say, make me be in space or in some strange realm, but it doesn't feel like anything out of the ordinary. For instance I've never managed to get an actual zero-g environment to 'work' properly. The foundation just isn't there.

A thought I felt like sharing this morning

[Deadpangod3]

Alright, I managed to remember my dream last night, but it was weird.

I was trying to fall asleep in my bed, I was in a strange room, there was a window above me I could see through just by sitting up, and outside there were trees, and the weirdest part was,

My cousin was on the floor sleeping at the foot of my bed in the dream!

I made sure to right it down.

[jmiki8]

I like having lucid dreams, it's like giving yourself more hours to spend with activities. However, some of these dreams turn into nightmares, and when I manage to wake up, I often experience sleep paralysis for some seconds. It's horrible to lay in a bed just after having a nightmare in a dark room, without the ability to move and switch the light on.

Also sometimes when things get really bizarre, these dreams can really freak me out. When I had my first lucid dreams, It was really difficult to get used to broken clocks, TVs, which wouldn't switch on; doors which may not open, and people (usually relatives and friends) behaving in very strange ways (like cooking my pet tortoises, lol). Lucid dreams can be really enjoyable until you can control them, however.

Edited February 25, 2014 by jmiki8

[Deadpangod3]

I also noticed while I was trying to fall asleep something was weird, it felt like my mattress had become waves in the ocean, or something like that, later, I noticed it was like I wasn't even in my own body anymore,

It was like that until I fell asleep,

Also, I forgot to say that in my dream my dad ocasionnally came into the "room" scaring me sh**less each time, and asked me if I was ok.

[KvickFlygarn87]

like cooking my pet tortoises

Um, what the actual firetruck? That's odd.

Should I make a "Dream journal" thread for people to post in to remember the dreams?

[jmiki8]

like cooking my pet tortoises

Um, what the actual firetruck? That's odd.

That's right, I'm not joking, it was a real dream. Does it mean something bad? :sealed:

Edited February 25, 2014 by jmiki8

[KvickFlygarn87]

Pfft, I don't think so. I don't believe in all the "Dreams mean stuff" baloney.

[montyben101]

In had one a few days ago were I was at school but sadly I was to worried it was real life to do anything crazy:p I really want to try and lucid dream that I'm in a space shuttle that's launching XD

[DisarmingBaton5]

I had a dream once a few days after my elementary school let out for summer (this was in fifth grade or so). I was dreaming that I was in school. A few minutes in, I realized that school had ended a few days previously and that I was dreaming. It remains remembered, and with alarming clarity considering the time elapsed since.

[KvickFlygarn87]

I really want to try and lucid dream that I'm in a space shuttle that's launching XD

That'll be difficult for your brain to recreate unless you've actually done it. Or well, been close-ish to the shuttle when it launches (sound), experienced a lot of G's a long period of time (feel) and know pretty much what it looks like.

[Comrade Jenkens]

I've only managed to partially lucid dream twice and that was by accident. It was pretty cool though.

However I'm scared of trying to continue as both times I woke up with sleep paralysis with the feeling that the shadows in my room were watching me!

[Deadpangod3]

I failed miserably last night, I woke up several times throughout the night, but I swear I remember hearing something like a wwll style air raid siren, or modern day tornado siren...

That or my mind was remembering me thinking of air raid sirens a little before I fell asleep...

[KvickFlygarn87]

Alright, I'm in my bed with my phone for a quick forum visit, about to go to sleep. Wish me luck! Although, I'm gonna start by learning to remember dreams. Any hints on that?

[Deadpangod3]

Alright, I'm in my bed with my phone for a quick forum visit, about to go to sleep. Wish me luck! Although, I'm gonna start by learning to remember dreams. Any hints on that?

First time I kept repeating to myself in my head "I'm going to remember my dream tonight" millions of times that day. Yesterday I forgot about it and didn't do it as much, idk if that has anything to do with it, getting it drilled into your brain to remember.

[KvickFlygarn87]

So, that's too late. I did that yesterday, but I started repeating it about an hour before falling asleep.

[Superfluous J]

Alright, I'm in my bed with my phone for a quick forum visit, about to go to sleep. Wish me luck! Although, I'm gonna start by learning to remember dreams. Any hints on that?

Write them down. Have a pen and paper next to your bed and write down whatever you do remember. It'll be sparse and fleeting but you will remember SOMETHING. "Fred and I were in some kind of deli thing and everybody was weeping angels from Dr. Who. But it wasn't scary." Something like that. Next morning, try again and you'll be surprised (well not any more because I told you) to find that you remember more.

Eventually you'll be using up whole pages of your journal on a single dream, and have multiple dreams to record.

[KvickFlygarn87]

I'll try that. Will an Android notepad do or does it have to be a normal paper/pen? Like, maybe the light wakes my brain up too much or something.

[jmiki8]

everybody was weeping angels from Dr. Who

AAH! No! The weeping angels are the last beings I'd like to see in my dreams! I hope I won't have a nightmare today...

KvickFlygarn87, I think it's enough to write down your dream in the morning, just after waking up.

By the way: good night for you all!

Edited February 26, 2014 by jmiki8

[KvickFlygarn87]

Kay, nighty nighty! Best of luck in going lucid!

[DonLorenzo]

Awesome! Good luck all, persistence is key