KSP For the Playstation 3

[Deta]

Some things are not meant for console, KSP is one of them. Not only from the CPU and RAM point but also the controls, I remember trying to do these up-down L-R 2 buttons at once to do a fireball, hated it and console controllers break faster then KB/M, my old xbox controller use to make Sam Fisher creep forward when it was on the table. plus what happens when a new console comes out? Having it only available on one console type is always bad, look at GTA 5, still only for console and yet the PC market is screaming for it. If you want to use a console controller I think that by the time 1.0 drops Squad will have different controllers setups, look at all that Logitech gear they just got. And I do flip between orbit view-craft while throttling up.

[Red Iron Crown]

The Intel Core microarchitecture was a significant improvement in single-threaded performance compared to the Pentium 4 era, and the last Pentium 4 processors were already clearly faster single-threaded than what was included in PS3 and Xbox 360.

How do you think a PS4 or XBOne would compare? I know they're behind current PC processors for single thread performance but I'm not sure how they would compare to my 2007 vintage CPU.

[Jouni]

How do you think a PS4 or XBOne would compare? I know they're behind current PC processors for single thread performance but I'm not sure how they would compare to my 2007 vintage CPU.

I'm not really familiar with them. AMD has had a hard time keeping up with Intel in single-core performance for many years now, so it's been trying to sell more CPU cores for the same price. The Jaguar chips used in both PS4 and Xbox One are low-power chips mostly intended for ultabooks and tablets, so that should impact the performance even more.

Based on some googling, the single-core performance of a Jaguar CPU should be something like a quarter of a high-end desktop Ivy Bridge (2012) or Haswell (2013) Core i5. This means that it should also be slightly less than in your 2007 Core 2 Duo. With a total of 8 cores, both PS4 and Xbox One should have about half of the CPU power of a desktop Core i5.

[Sirrobert]

How many times do you manipulate manoeuvre nodes while manipulating the map view, while manipulating your ship?

How could this not be solved by turning the right thumbstick into a mouse controller?

All 3, not to often. Only during manual accent.

Both node and map though, basicly every time I'm fine tuning a planetery capture

If the node is far away from the planet, you'll need to constantly manipulate the map and move your mouse up to the planet to check the effect, than zoom and stuf back to the node, make a small adjustment, zoom back to the planet, ect. Have fun without a mouse

But I'd love to see you even try to manipulate a 3D node with a thumbstick. Make sure you put the node atleast an hour ahead of the rocket, because you'll need the time.

There are things where you NEED a mouse. No you can't replace turn the thumbstick in a mouse controller, for the same reason you can't play an RTS on a controller. You need that complete control that you can only get from an actual mouse

Edited February 28, 2014 by Sirrobert

[frizzank]

Someone would have to port it to the console. I am sure that day will come after the money wagon rolls up to Squad's office, just like Minecraft.

For the post that kids dont have access to the real computer that cost thousands of dollars, and the game console is a toy that costs less.

Those days are coming to an end.

The new generation of consoles are just PC's crammed in a prepackaged box. It is no longer plug and play. You have to install the games and operating system on the new console and the price is comparable to the cost of a low to mid range PC.

From now on your much better off buying a moderately priced PC, and plunging it into your TV. You get all of the games and functionality of the console (Steam works on Tv's and standard controllers now) as well as all the features of a PC (Internet browser and more serious software, word, excel).

Also locking your children out of certain features of your computer is the same number of steps as locking them out of mature content on the console. I am assuming you do this for your children. If not you should its just as harmful as whats on the PC.

[technicalfool]

Someone would have to port it to the console. I am sure that day will come after the money wagon rolls up to Squad's office, just like Minecraft.

For the post that kids dont have access to the real computer that cost thousands of dollars, and the game console is a toy that costs less.

Those days are coming to an end.

The new generation of consoles are just PC's crammed in a prepackaged box.

Use of a similar CPU does not mean "PC in a prepackaged box", any more than the old Sega Megadrive was an Amiga 500/600 because they both used the Motorola 68000. The Master System was not a Sinclair Spectrum despite them both using the Zilog Z80. And neither of those are a house alarm system, despite the Z80 being used in such obscure places.

It is no longer plug and play. You have to install the games and operating system on the new console and the price is comparable to the cost of a low to mid range PC.

Yes, you install the games by shoving the disk in and hitting a button. What do you mean "install the OS"? Erm, nope.

And the price is nowhere near comparable. Consoles are sold with virtually no margin or even at a loss, because the money comes from taking a cut out of game sales. It's the razor blade model for toys. A bleeding edge next-gen console might cost a similar amount to an entry-level PC with an Intel GMA chipset. Go for a decent PC and you're looking at way more money than a console.

From now on your much better off buying a moderately priced PC, and plunging it into your TV. You get all of the games and functionality of the console (Steam works on Tv's and standard controllers now) as well as all the features of a PC (Internet browser and more serious software, word, excel).

Show me where I can install Windows, Linux or OS X on an Xbox 360 or PS3. The crippled "OtherOS" sandbox that was removed anyway does not count. It got removed, remember?

Also locking your children out of certain features of your computer is the same number of steps as locking them out of mature content on the console. I am assuming you do this for your children. If not you should its just as harmful as whats on the PC.

What does this have to do with releasing KSP on a console? Or with parents who cannot be bothered fixing the PC (that might have important stuff on it) every time Junior breaks something on it?

Edited March 1, 2014 by technicalfool

[Red Iron Crown]

Use of a similar CPU does not mean "PC in a prepackaged box", any more than the old Sega Megadrive was an Amiga 500/600 because they both used the Motorola 68000. The Master System was not a Sinclair Spectrum despite them both using the Zilog Z80. And neither of those are a house alarm system, despite the Z80 being used in such obscure places.

While that's true, a common CPU and GPU architecture among platforms does make porting from one to another much, much easier.

And the price is nowhere near comparable. Consoles are sold with virtually no margin or even at a loss, because the money comes from taking a cut out of game sales. It's the razor blade model for toys. A bleeding edge next-gen console might cost a similar amount to an entry-level PC with an Intel GMA chipset. Go for a decent PC and you're looking at way more money than a console.

You can definitely get a PC with an i3 and a low end discrete GPU for the price of an XBOne, and possibly for the price of a PS4 if you're patient and watch for sales.

[9911MU51C]

ahhh the "good" 'ol console and pc argument, that will never have a winning side.

Some people like consoles

some people like computers

Some people prefer the simplicity of pop in a CD and play

some people like the options of downloading,modding,upgrading,etc

It's seriously opinion. There is no right or wrong answer. KSP could be ported to consoles, but it'd be very different from on the computer. Also, lets not forget the soon-to-be steam machine's.

[Liquid]

Lots of misinformation floating around in this thread... for a start, yes consoles allow downloadable games; last generation had many, very successful digital-only releases (Minecraft, Trials Evolution, Toy Soldiers, etc.). The current generation allows every game to be downloaded digitally, on the same day as the retail release. Anyone who doesn't know this is either living under a rock or not very interested in the gaming industry.

Just because the components in consoles may not be quite as powerful as desktop counterparts, doesn't mean they magically become useless crap. A current-gen octo-core, 1.6GHz console CPU is still in the range of a quad-core 2.5GHz - 3GHz CPU, nothing to scoff at and certainly beats the ass off any dual-core CPU (which the majority of Steam users still use). As for GPUs, consoles are generally a notch above what most PC players are using and with the latest generation, same goes for RAM.

Consoles can and do allow mouse and keyboard input and yes this functionality is available to game developers, Counter Strike: Global Offensive allows it on the PS3. It's entirely up to the developer, if they think their game works well with a mouse and keyboard, there is console platforms that will accommodate them.

That said, the PS3 is very likely not sufficient for KSP, for a few reasons:

- It's CPU uses the IBM Cell architecture - KSP was built for x86.

- It only has 512MB of RAM - KSP loads all assets on launch and they take up more than 512MB.

- It isn't a very powerful machine overall, being built long before development on KSP was even started.

The PS4 and Xbox One on the other hand...

- Both use an x86 CPU architecture.

- Both have 8GB of RAM.

- Are pretty damn powerful as far as cheap computers go, and were built fairly recently.

All gaming platforms have their pros, cons and target audiences, acting like a fanboy/elitist only shows ignorance of the industry. Attempting to speak for the console market, saying that they'd never appreciate something like KSP, is similarly stupid. I'm primarily a console gamer, who loves me some KSP, would certainly buy it on a console and have convinced at least 5 other console gamers to buy it, who also love the game. People pay cold, hard cash for all kinds of games on all kinds of platforms, anyone who can't accept that will just have to #dealwithit

The major hurdles to getting KSP working on next-gen consoles are parallelism, input and licensing. It would require Unity to allow physics calculations either on multiple CPU cores or an AMD brand of GPU, something that I don't think it supports yet. It would require either a keyboard and mouse, or a major overhaul of the controls and GUI. As far as I know neither console allows unfinished "early access" games so it'd really only be possible for the 1.0 release. Despite these challenges, I'd love to play KSP on my PS4 and it would allow a much wider audience to enjoy the game so I hope it happens.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Liquid

[Red Iron Crown]

- It's CPU uses the IBM Cell architecture - KSP was built for x86.

KSP was built on Unity, which is platform agnostic. Unity already has a PS3 port, so if performance on the PS3 was sufficient most of the heavy lifting of a port is already done.

[Jouni]

A current-gen octo-core, 1.6GHz console CPU is still in the range of a quad-core 2.5GHz - 3GHz CPU

Do you have any references for that? All sources I have seen indicate that AMD Jaguar is mostly comparable to Intel Atom, meaning that it can execute less instructions per cycle than a desktop/laptop processor such as Intel Core i5 or i7.

[Liquid]

KSP was built on Unity, which is platform agnostic. Unity already has a PS3 port, so if performance on the PS3 was sufficient most of the heavy lifting of a port is already done.

Unity might theoretically be platform-agnostic, but in practice we already see quite a few platform-specific bugs. As for performance being sufficient, the PS3 has 512MB of RAM. Not just VRAM but total RAM, shared by both CPU and GPU, I just don't think that's enough without a serious overhaul.

Do you have any references for that? All sources I have seen indicate that AMD Jaguar is mostly comparable to Intel Atom, meaning that it can execute less instructions per cycle than a desktop/laptop processor such as Intel Core i5 or i7.

Don't have time to hunt down a reference right now, but would say that IPC isn't a good measure because it fluctuates between the type of application being run. My overall point is: less power than high-end PC parts, is not the same as "not enough power to run KSP".

I run KSP on an Intel 2.93GHz Core 2 Duo (dual-core), which is actually above average according to the Steam hardware survey. All a console has to do is beat the average really, which they do. They still run AAA games in 1080p at 60FPS and that's what counts. KSP would be a cakewalk for newer consoles as long as the physics could be offloaded to other cores or preferably the GPU.

[briansun1]

Unity might theoretically be platform-agnostic, but in practice we already see quite a few platform-specific bugs. As for performance being sufficient, the PS3 has 512MB of RAM. Not just VRAM but total RAM, shared by both CPU and GPU, I just don't think that's enough without a serious overhaul.

Don't have time to hunt down a reference right now, but would say that IPC isn't a good measure because it fluctuates between the type of application being run. My overall point is: less power than high-end PC parts, is not the same as "not enough power to run KSP".

I run KSP on an Intel 2.93GHz Core 2 Duo (dual-core), which is actually above average according to the Steam hardware survey. All a console has to do is beat the average really, which they do. They still run AAA games in 1080p at 60FPS and that's what counts. KSP would be a cakewalk for newer consoles as long as the physics could be offloaded to other cores or preferably the GPU.

except you can't do that right now

Edited March 3, 2014 by briansun1

[Red Iron Crown]

briansun1, please enlighten us as to how to offload the physics to other cores or the GPU, that's a highly desired feature that would enhance performance greatly.

[briansun1]

How should I know? I'm just saying you can't

[Red Iron Crown]

If you read your previous post you will see how I was confused, it says the exact opposite.

[briansun1]

If you read your previous post you will see how I was confused, it says the exact opposite.

fixed.........