BSC: Aeris 4a - AND THE WINNER IS:

[Giggleplex777]

Aaaand the thread exploded. This is going to mean a lot of testing to cast my vote. Well, I'd better get at it!

Not sure if that is a great idea or not. You want a plane to not like getting excessive lateral drift, since that can make for a very "interesting" landings. Then again, you have all-moving vertical stabilizers, which is bound to get a more dramatic effect. The White Dart is designed for stability, and the trade is always manoeuvrability... anyhow, finished yet? I want to try it because it looks awesome!! (and I'm only at like page 5 through testing).

Rune. Keeping track of relative scoring is also going to be a pain in the ass, I hope my notes are enough.

Well, it yaws as much as your plane with reaction wheels on, so I don't think it would be much of a problem. As an added bonus, I can fly it like a giant glider and perform sideslips while coming in to land.

One problem I've been having is how it is laterally unstable due to the anhedral angle of the wings. The earlier spaceplanes were more stable, but I like the look of the current configuration.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Giggleplex777

[Silverchain]

Spearhead, Leisure, Strela and one of mine in 2000x2000 Kerbin orbit.

Early-model Kaeris demonstrates How Not To Land (entirely my fault!)

[Kasuha]

Early-model Kaeris demonstrates How Not To Land (entirely my fault!)

http://i.imgur.com/ReT7CTB.png

Hehe yes, it kinda has that problem even in later versions. Best bet to get out of that is to switch off intakes and rotate it prograde using A/D. I blame the control surfaces bug for that behavior.

Want a stable rocket? Forget nosecones, use this:

Edited March 9, 2014 by Kasuha

[Spartwo]

Spearhead, Leisure, Strela and one of mine in 2000x2000 Kerbin orbit.

http://i.imgur.com/byGwHIj.png

Any criticisms?

[Mareczex333]

I want to build something too!! But I got a problem. The rules says that parts should not be clipped. It should be Simple craft, that any newbie could make by himselft. I saw a lot of crafts with airhogging techiques, wings clips etc. So I want to ask: It can be clipped or no? If it can, then are there any limits?

[mhoram]

I want to build something too!! But I got a problem. The rules says that parts should not be clipped. It should be Simple craft, that any newbie could make by himselft. I saw a lot of crafts with airhogging techiques, wings clips etc. So I want to ask: It can be clipped or no? If it can, then are there any limits?

Well ... the only hard criteria are:

- make the craft file available

- publish a screenshot

- give it a name

Everything else depends on the people who test the entries and vote for them. Some find partclipping acceptable, some don't.

[likke_A_boss]

I want to build something too!! But I got a problem. The rules says that parts should not be clipped. It should be Simple craft, that any newbie could make by himselft. I saw a lot of crafts with airhogging techiques, wings clips etc. So I want to ask: It can be clipped or no? If it can, then are there any limits?

I don't air hogging is approved though, as it is considered cheating by some and these are supported to be stock-alike.

Also: how does one register to vote?

[Guest]

So I want to ask: It can be clipped or no? If it can, then are there any limits?

Regarding this particular contest, I would never place a vote for a craft using obvious alt-f12 part clipping since no stock craft relies on that. However, there are some tricks you can use without touching the debug screen to obtain some part clipping, so it's kind of hard to tell.

[Mareczex333]

Please check the BSC: Challenge Guidelines Mk.II - even if you just want to vote! This is where I've outsourced all the rules, legal stuff and design-goals.

I was talking about this. Read it

"-Try to avoid exessive part clipping, a new player should be able to take your ship apart, learn how it works and put it back together"

Edited March 9, 2014 by Mareczex333

[Silverchain]

Any criticisms?

Bad:

It's very intake stacked and clipped; the brief specifically asks us to avoid excessive part clipping.

Takeoff was a bit wobbly.

There's no explanatory notes.

Good:

It looks nice. Extra cockpit space is an unusual feature, think it's the only one.

Ascent flight was good.

It has lots of range, rendezvous flight in space was good, docking was good (surprisingly so given the position of the port on the underside.)

Atmospheric reentry and descent flight was very good, probably the best of the ones I've tried (only flown about half of them back to landing so far.)

I was able to fly it to a landing in rough terrain.

Overall:

Looks nice, good to fly, too much clipping.

---

About clipping - I make it 8 entries have massive amounts of clipping and 5 more have large amounts; interestingly, some of them the authors claim aren't clipped, which leads me to believe they understand "don't use clipping" as meaning "don't specifically turn on the no-clipping cheat mode" instead of "don't clip parts." ^^

Mareczex, most entries (mine and the stock Aeris certainly included) do feature a small or minimal amount of clipping, there's only a handful that have no clipping at all, and really, given the vague way that some clipping detection is carried out (e.g. with identical parts on each side of a plane, often one will show forbidden and the other allowed until you remove and reattach them) I think low clipping is the standard to be aimed for, not no clipping. But as I understand functional clipping, like stacking fuel tanks inside each other or engines inside engines or whatever, is not right for this challenge.

[Mareczex333]

Mareczex, most entries (mine and the stock Aeris certainly included) do feature a small or minimal amount of clipping, there's only a handful that have no clipping at all, and really, given the vague way that some clipping detection is carried out (e.g. with identical parts on each side of a plane, often one will show forbidden and the other allowed until you remove and reattach them) I think low clipping is the standard to be aimed for, not no clipping. But as I understand functional clipping, like stacking fuel tanks inside each other or engines inside engines or whatever, is not right for this challenge.

That's what I wanted to hear. So smart cliping is allowed.

I never launched "allow clipping in editors" Always in traditional way ;d

I don't intend to accuse u for not holding the rules. I just wanted to find out what is the truth ;d

[Ravenchant]

Spearhead, Leisure, Strela and one of mine in 2000x2000 Kerbin orbit.

Yay, so the design is at least somewhat viable! What did/didn't you like about it?

[BagelRabbit]

Regarding this particular contest, I would never place a vote for a craft using obvious alt-f12 part clipping since no stock craft relies on that. However, there are some tricks you can use without touching the debug screen to obtain some part clipping, so it's kind of hard to tell.

Despite the clippy look of my craft, it didn't use any help from the debug menu at all. I would view it as having a small amount of clipping, but the clipping is only for aesthetics, so it's not quite as frowned upon.

That being said, some entries (Spartwo, I'm looking at you!) utilize part-clipping to the extreme. These entries may be great in terms of flying abilities but they don't teach newcomers as much as they could. I would recommend to all newcomers to avoid non-aesthetic part-clipping if at all possible.

Oh, and to Silverchain considering the "Great Spaceplane Derp": The plane wasn't thrown into the air, the Kerbal was thrown over a kilometer below sea level. Maybe the Kraken got 'im and was dragging him down like in The Europa Report.

Also, I'm curious as to whether my spaceplane was one of the ones that you classified as having large amounts of part-clipping. I thought the clipping was pretty minimal, myself, and that I just used my parts in a compact way.

[Spartwo]

Bad:

It's very intake stacked and clipped; the brief specifically asks us to avoid excessive part clipping.Not much I can do here without leaving too much jet fuel

Takeoff was a bit wobbly.So you're saying I should use struts?

There's no explanatory notes.Intentional.You should be able to use a stock craft without prior instruction.I'll recommend not to read the instructions...before giving instructions

Good:

It looks nice. Extra cockpit space is an unusual feature, think it's the only one.Page 20 has an 11 kerbal craft

Overall:

Looks nice, good to fly, too much clipping.

>unrelat-snip<

Thank you I'll fix the latter two and possibly make a variant for this challenge(although that might defeat the purpose of getting everyone to test them)Complaining is always appreciated.

That being said, some entries (Spartwo, I'm looking at you!) utilize part-clipping to the extreme. These entries may be great in terms of flying abilities but they don't teach newcomers as much as they could. I would recommend to all newcomers to avoid non-aesthetic part-clipping if at all possible.

Why are you looking at me!,I don't even have Fkeys.I still think that learning to stack intakes is vital.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Spartwo

[KissSh0t]

Part Clipping is placing the same part over and over again in the same spot while turning on the part clipping option, air intakes for lots of air, fuel tanks for lots of fuel, wing parts for lots of lift.. This is Part Clipping

This guideline is what I think is the most important.

Your craft should be an example new players can emulate. It should demonstrate design techniques.

[Spartwo]

Hmm...not as bad as I thought(Winglets were added)

It still looks hideous though:(.The back wings go through the engines now,the front looks like a set of stairs,the back port now has too much room,and it has no front flaps because it will be meant putting wings inside the craft.Still though 0 fuel clipped as opposed to ~120 and more intake air without stacking.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Spartwo

[kenbobo]

Hello!

I call this one the Firebee SSTO Alpha-Omega 1!

Flight plan in craft description in SPH

http://www./view/la5jf0dr862o3t5

Screenies

http://imgur.com/a/xTJ1p#0

[Blaster]

Would be nice to know if the simplicity of the KR100 is appreciated.

[Kasuha]

Part Clipping is placing the same part over and over again in the same spot while turning on the part clipping option, air intakes for lots of air, fuel tanks for lots of fuel, wing parts for lots of lift.. This is Part Clipping

This guideline is what I think is the most important.

Your craft should be an example new players can emulate. It should demonstrate design techniques.

By my definition, part clipping is when a part goes through another part at least partially. Excessive part clipping is when there are parts completely inside other parts, and when it is uncertain or not obvious how many and what parts are in certain places.

Clipping is often used for aesthetic purposes because stock physics and aerodynamics do not give clipped parts any other advantages - they still keep their weight and drag, and they don't become any more firmly attached to the rest of the plane because they clip inside.

[Xeldrak]

I still think that learning to stack intakes is vital.

Well, this is something I would object. I don't think that statcking intakes is vital - extending the operational ceiling of you plane, simply but copying another six intake into the same place feels a little cheaty in my mind.

Talking about clipping - as long F12 was not used, I'm usually fine with it. However, even when someone would be able to do stuff like stuffing several equally sized tanks into each other without F12 - I still think thats bad engineering.

[KissSh0t]

By my definition, part clipping is when a part goes through another part at least partially. Excessive part clipping is when there are parts completely inside other parts, and when it is uncertain or not obvious how many and what parts are in certain places.

Clipping is often used for aesthetic purposes because stock physics and aerodynamics do not give clipped parts any other advantages - they still keep their weight and drag, and they don't become any more firmly attached to the rest of the plane because they clip inside.

Parts passing through parts is just parts passing through parts, And as you say, we do it aesthetically to create certain shapes out of the parts available to us.

Part Clipping is still placing the same part in the exact same location multiple times.

[breakthrough]

My 0.02USD about no-debug part clipping is that its not an illegal way for a inexperienced player to manage to make orbit. Most people that keep at the game for awhile will eventually move toward either aesthetic design where clipping is acceptable or self imposed limits where they choose not to clip to keep it from being too easy.

[Kasuha]

Parts passing through parts is just parts passing through parts, And as you say, we do it aesthetically to create certain shapes out of the parts available to us.

Part Clipping is still placing the same part in the exact same location multiple times.

While everybody's undestanding of what is and what is not part clipping differs, I have never met anyone mentioning "part passing". I am not against coining new terminology but you should probably recognize that at present yours is not shared by others. Also I think that your definition that clipping is only when a part is overlapped by the same part at exactly the same place is unnecessarily narrow.

[KissSh0t]

I do not wish to debate with you the definition of part clipping.

I am telling you what part clipping is in regards to placing multiple parts pixel for pixel in the exact same location, this is part clipping.

If you wish to call parts passing through parts "part clipping" as well, then you are free to do so and I will not argue against it.

[MiniMatt]

Don't worry, not a new entry or an update But using lessons learnt from designing the Mallard (vote Mallard!) I built an unmanned fuel tanker variant capable of lifting 360 units of rocket fuel +oxidiser to orbit and return safely to Kerba-firma:

Utilises all the ease of use features found on the Mallard (vote Mallard!) and another example of why I love these BSC challenges.

Further details & craft file on the Spacecraft Exchange forum should any be interested.