Does the warp drive would ever ever become real

[Pawelk198604]

I would live to see the time when humanity will have warp drive, such as in Star Trek.

If I could suggest something a future astronaut, is that before the first warp drive activatiom broadcast this

[guto8797]

There was a concept, proposed by a mexican scientist if i am not mistaken, Alcumbierre. The idea is that it would shorten the time-space continuum in front of the ship and enlarge it on the back, this would propell the craft in time, instead of space. Imagine you have a towel and you trow a small toy car forward. Instead of doing this, you just sink the towel in the center, this is somewhat what would happen.

AS per doability, estimations calculate that it would have pretty large power requirements, most likelly requiring a fusion reactor. But i wouldn't be surprised if it gets invented in the future, if we don't blow ourselves up untill then (which is even more likelly).

[Mitchz95]

I don't think the scientific community would be satisfied until they made it happen.

[Canopus]

I'm sure it will happen but not in the lifetime of anyone on this forum.(unless you live long enough to get yourself frozen or your brain gets preserved in a robotic body ) It will take a few hundred or thousand years.

[Scotius]

I will be happy to just know it is possible at all

[m4v]

There was a concept, proposed by a mexican scientist if i am not mistaken, Alcumbierre. The idea is that it would shorten the time-space continuum in front of the ship and enlarge it on the back, this would propell the craft in time, instead of space. Imagine you have a towel and you trow a small toy car forward. Instead of doing this, you just sink the towel in the center, this is somewhat what would happen.

AS per doability, estimations calculate that it would have pretty large power requirements, most likelly requiring a fusion reactor. But i wouldn't be surprised if it gets invented in the future, if we don't blow ourselves up untill then (which is even more likelly).

Large power requirements isn't the issue, the issue is the need of strange matter with negative mass. Alcubierre himself said that before his drive can be real we need a breakthrough in theoretical physics, and that's most likely to remain a science fiction thing.

[Roastduck]

I read an article recently (in the past year) where NASA gave a guy a corner of a lab somewhere to work on proof of concept that a warp drive was possible on at least the subatomic scale.

[jwenting]

I don't think the scientific community would be satisfied until they made it happen.

wrong. The scientific community is overall more pragmatic than that. And so is the engineering community. They'd love to see it happen IF it were useful and feasible.

The Alcubierre drive has been shown to be neither.

[Seret]

Well, strictly speaking it's not that it's been proven impossible, it's just that there's no compelling reason to think that it is possible.

[Streetwind]

Icarus Interstellar is a nonprofit organization with the self-chosen goal of enabling practical interstellar travel (that is, reaching other star systems within a human lifetime) before 2100. An Alcubierre style spacetime warp engine is one of the concepts they are researching. Some good keywords to look up are "quantum vacuum" and "casimir effect".

Current work being done on the subject is less about how to make it possible and more about how to reduce the amount of energy required to make it possible. A few years ago they were at "one Jupiter worth of antimatter", while more recently they've brought it down to the size of a small moon. Or so I hear claimed. Still utterly impractical of course

[m4v]

Icarus Interstellar is a nonprofit organization with the self-chosen goal of enabling practical interstellar travel (that is, reaching other star systems within a human lifetime) before 2100.

More likely an organization that lives of donations from people that are clueless about physics and has not done any real engineering work.

[Streetwind]

Errr... engineering? What engineering? The topic at hand is firmly in the realm of theoretical physics, and will likely stay there for the foreseeable future. And thus the organization employs theoretical physicists, who by definition do not engineer.

Contrary to what you see in movies, you can't really just build something, not even experimentally. You need to establish the groundwork first. This is called 'fundamental research'. On average, it takes about 50 to100 years for it to transition into applied sciences, at which point you can start thinking about engineering. An example of this would be Maxwell's equations for electromagnetic fields. Derived in the mid-19th century, it took until the second half of the 20th century to really see widespread application.

Of course, if you have practical ideas how to develop FTL technology without first creating a power source capable of running it... well, we're all ears.

[rkman]

Icarus Interstellar is a nonprofit organization with the self-chosen goal of enabling practical interstellar travel

Isn't that a bit like setting out to discover America, before the invention of sails?

The topic at hand is firmly in the realm of theoretical physics

The topic tag is "science fiction theory".

If there is ever going to be anything like a warp drive, the knowledge to create it will come from fundamental physics, not from science fiction theory, nor from Columbus-wannabees-without-sails.

[KerikBalm]

No, there is nothing to suggest that it is possible.

There are a couple of speculative proposals about loopholes - to allow one to get somewhere faster than light, without actually locally exceeding the speed of light.

The problem with the alcubierre drive and such is that the only way we know of to warp space time... ie gravity, travels at the speed of light.

Thus we get "gravity waves".

Then there is the general expansion of space-time, seemingly ongoing since the big bang... but that seems to happen uniformly, and for warp drives to work, it would need to be non-uniform.

Lastly, there are wormholes, which would require negative energy to keep open... and well... those would require passing through a gravitational sheer (likea black hole) that would obliterate anything.

However, if you could accelerate arbitrarily close to the speed of light, you could cross the galaxy in an arbitrarily short time from your frame of reference, but that also means things would change "in the blunk of an eye" due to time dialation.

[Streetwind]

The topic tag is "science fiction theory".

Ah, sorry, my fault. I thought we would be talking actual science here. Carry on with sci-fi, then!

[Red Iron Crown]

Well, strictly speaking it's not that it's been proven impossible, it's just that there's no compelling reason to think that it is possible.

Nothing can be proven impossible scientifically. More generally, nothing can be proven scientifically. Science isn't in the business of proof, that's for mathematics.

Sorry, pet peeve of mine.

[Seret]

Science isn't in the business of proof, that's for mathematics.

Sorry, pet peeve of mine.

Preaching to choir, I'm an engineer. It's all about utility

[Winter Man]

Do we really need *another* thread about this? One side agrees, the other disagrees, someone comes along and posts a wall of text that no one bothers to read all the way through, etc.

[LawnDartLeo]

As it stands with our current understanding of the physical universe....

Biological systems are far to fragile for any number of reasons.

Electrical systems would probably wither, too.

Mechanical systems would be mangled by immense forces.

Gene Roddenberry scripted it all away... but he gave us inspiration for something to shoot for. Improbable, yes. Impossible, well, mankind finds ways to overcome the impossible every time it's understanding of the universe grows.

[Comrade Jenkens]

Yes I believe its invention is inevitable if humanity doesn't blow itself up before hand. However it won't be in our lifetimes

[Pawelk198604]

It would be beautiful if we could create a warp drive

I still think that first ship going warp should play this:D

[DarkStar64]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7tU0H6rD-g

Your welcome

[Hodo]

While the concept of the "warp drive" is plausable, it is not possible currently.

The issues that we face with the warp drive is it wouldn't work like in Star Trek and the power requirements.

A warp drive would require a nearly unfathomable amount of power to do what it is needed to get a spacecraft past the speed of light. The next feat would be reducing the mass of that spacecraft to less than that of any known particle so that it can go faster than the speed of light. The last factor is how do you get a human or living crew to survive such a transition in speed without being atomized. Then there are the other factors, like dust and micro meteorites that you could collide with at those speeds which would be catastrophic to say the least.

The Roddenberry Warp Drive, works on the principle that the warp field moves space around the ship, which is kept in a bubble or a field that in which the ship is not technically moving. Kind of how a bulldozer track works on the ground, if you are standing on the inside of the track, it isn't moving, but the vehicle is moving.

A real warp drive would have to work differently, as pulling space around a field may not be possible, but reducing the theoretical mass of something is.

[andrew123]

Mass effect... except if we spread out into the stars, I perfectly expect the Insurrectionists and Friedens to show up sooner or later. That begs another question... would we ever be willing to tolerate a single intergalactic government to control human space, and should we conquer species that we encounter and are less advanced than us.

If a rebellion does occur, and we all become immortal due to a singularity, don't expect a Forerunner Ecumene, but a government that rules with force projected through a military. I personally wouldn't care if I could easily get myself a planet.

I also believe that we should at least attempt a slipspace drive for 11 dimensions of pure joy.

Heck, I might even want to become this guy: http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/James_Ackerson

Edited March 12, 2014 by andrew123

[orbital mechanic]

Current work being done on the subject is less about how to make it possible and more about how to reduce the amount of energy required to make it possible. A few years ago they were at "one Jupiter worth of antimatter", while more recently they've brought it down to the size of a small moon. Or so I hear claimed. Still utterly impractical of course

It is not antimatter, but matter with negative mass/energy. There is a big difference: antimatter is known to exist and we can even produce it (although it is very difficult/expensive to produce and store). Matter with negative mass is not known to exist at all.

Some good keywords to look up are "quantum vacuum" and "casimir effect".

Some people (non-physicists) claim that they can use the casimir effect for a proof of concept. Last time I looked at this, mainstream physicists consider this nonsense. This does not necessarily mean that it can't be done, but we should be clear that it is not supported by mainstream physics. Also, it is important to note that even in the best case this is only useful to detect if spacetime can be warped in such a way. It is very clear that this particular method, even if it works, cannot be used for actual propulsion, so you still need to find actual negative mass/energy if you want to build an Alcubierre drive capable of propelling a ship.

Another point, that is not usually brought up is that if you can actually build an Alcubierre drive (and assuming General Relativity is correct) then it immediately follows that you can also build a time machine. This does not necessarily mean that the Alcubierre drive is impossible but it is important to note and in fact if it were possible it would be far more significant than actual faster-than-light travel.