[Ongoing Dev] [0.23.5] Modular Kolonization System v0.16 (RELEASE) [05-10-2014]

[thutmose]

Hey Rover, I feel like I must be overlooking something basic, but I am having trouble detecting resources. In the VAB, the Kethane survey units say they can detect everything (kethane, minerals, ore, substrate, water). However, once I get them in orbit and activate them, they detect kethane just fine, but nothing else. I.e., looking at the planet, with "kethane" selected, I can see the usual white / green hexes showing what areas have been scanned. But when I flip through the kethane menu to display minerals, ore, etc., the grid is completely blank, and nothing is displayed. When I mouse over a hex, it displays something like "Kethane: 534.24, Minerals: (no data), Ore: (no data), Substrate: (no data), Water: (no data)." And it does not seem to just be that there are no resources in these cells - because some hexes display "Kethane: (none), Minerals: (no data), Ore: (no data), Substrate: (no data), Water: (no data)."

If it's relevant, I am playing in career mode (I have unlocked the advanced sci tech node with all the MKS modules), and I hyperedited the scanners into orbit to make sure they detected MKS resources before an actual launch. I tested them around Kerbin, Minmus, and Duna. What am I missing? Thanks!

Mine did something similar when I added MKS after having a planet scanned, on the second time through, it rescanned from "Kethane: (none), Minerals: (no data), Ore: (no data), Substrate: (no data), Water: (no data)" to Kethane: (none), Minerals: (none), Ore: (none), Substrate: (none), Water: (none)." or similar. I think it only checks if the materials have been updated during the scan itself, and doesn't go and backfill things once added after.

[RoverDude]

Fair enough, although after setting up my first colony it feels like it'd be way easier to take the secondary materials up myself (Construction parts, enriched soil, etc). Also is it intended that the composter module in the kerbitat drains all my power instantly when activated? I have 12 large solar arrays and a few smaller panels around my colony and 140k power storage and it all goes nearly instantly on the composter.

Let me check on balancing. BTW in my saves I've gone back and forth with parts or no parts. In some cases (like, say, Duna) landing with a 20T MKS module just rips all of the parachutes off I think it will become a lot more relevant once there's a cost to fuel as well (not sure if we're getting some of this in .24 with contracts). I've not seen that power drain issue, but will run some independent tests. I will say that they are pretty power hungry - hence the new PDU which basically adds a bunch of RTGs and a 50K battery. I'll be publishing this pretty soon, I was just finishing up some balancing bits.

[RoverDude]

Mine did something similar when I added MKS after having a planet scanned, on the second time through, it rescanned from "Kethane: (none), Minerals: (no data), Ore: (no data), Substrate: (no data), Water: (no data)" to Kethane: (none), Minerals: (none), Ore: (none), Substrate: (none), Water: (none)." or similar. I think it only checks if the materials have been updated during the scan itself, and doesn't go and backfill things once added after.

Ahhh yeah one thing I did not test unfortunately is how Kethane reacts to having new resources added after a scan is complete. I guess you could, in theory, monkey with the persistence data to reset the scan information and somehow force a re-seeding of the data? Not a pretty hack, but I expect it would work.

[RoverDude]

Hey RoverDude How's it going?

Good - I'm on the verge of releasing the pre-release version. Models are locked (so no save-breaking), folder organization is ready for prod, but I just want to finish chasing down some of the bugs folks have reported. So this weekend's release (0.15) will be pretty much be what gets released.

[RoverDude]

To the folks watching this - sorry, been a relatively hellish week, but for good reasons - I'm also a musician and conspired to have two shows this week with two different bands First one is done, next one is Saturday - then I can get back to more KSP and MKS goodness. Got the day off today for recovery from a punk rock show I played last night.

btw - if anyone here is in NYC and likes ukelele-free melodic indie rock, we're playing a pretty sweet show this Saturday night (May 3rd) at Hank's Saloon in Brooklyn

[erbmur]

and which instrument will you be playing?

[RoverDude]

and which instrument will you be playing?

I'll be the guy on bass (James Rocket btw)

Edited May 1, 2014 by RoverDude

[LORDPrometheus]

I'm interested in this mod but cautiously holding back until I'm sure it will be functional for a long time and not be killed with an update

[RoverDude]

I'm interested in this mod but cautiously holding back until I'm sure it will be functional for a long time and not be killed with an update

Yep, fair enough This thread is more for folks willing to help test it out in an alternate save while I work through the kinks. I'll be doing a new thread on the showcase forum when it hits release.

[LORDPrometheus]

Yep, fair enough This thread is more for folks willing to help test it out in an alternate save while I work through the kinks. I'll be doing a new thread on the showcase forum when it hits release.

I'd be happy to help test things just need an alternative install

[Vim Razz]

It sounds like a busy week and weekend. It's ok -- you're ~allowed~ to have some fun outside of KSP every now and then...

Some thoughts and feedback and stuff from recent experiments:

The disappearing ship issue may be related to the bugs with ModuleManager 2.0.3 somehow? At least, none of my test ships have disappeared since upgrading to 2.0.7, although it's still to early to determine whether that was a direct cause, or perhaps an exacerbating factor. I'm rather tentative on this, since my understanding is that the 2.0.3 bugs were primarily UI-related. Then again, I don't really understand technical details of the 2.0.3 problems to begin with, so....

I'll be testing things out further before committing any serious mission tests with MKS modules as root parts, but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone else who experienced this issue is (or was) running MM 2.0.3 as well. If it does turn out to have been the cause, then that would explain why the problem wasn't experienced by those using older stable versions of MM like 1.5.7 or 1.5.6 (which I presume has been used for development, since it's included in the MKS.zip).

The question of "grey" distant marker labels that I mentioned in an earlier post turns out to have been a non-issue. The marker color for "base" type objects seems to be a very light blue (almost to the point of being grey, tbh). It just looked "debris-grey" to me because of the blueish-green backdrop of Minmus.

Thoughts on parts:

- Is there any real reason to drop the old 4-way connector hub completely? The newer caged 6-point node is a great addition, but falls short of a full-on replacement. It looks great in direct conjunction with the caged base modules, but it's too visually busy to look good as a junction for longer tubes or peripheral base extensions. The simpler red caps of 4-way hub rhyme well with other base elements without directly competing for attention in the way that the caged hub does in those applications.

- Speaking of visually busy, the Kerbtrails look a bit off when used for longer runs. The levels of bandiness and puffiness all kind of add up to the point of being distracting from the overall aesthetic balance of a construction. Since the texture isn't just wrapped simply around the tube, I guess I need to spend some time learning about Unity and PartTools in order to start playing around with some different ideas directly, but I'm currently thinking of a pair of the gold lines running lengthwise down the sides to separate the "top" and "bottom" halves of the tubes, with the "bottom" remaining as-is to provide a sense of structural support but removing the banding portions from the "top" half in order to break things up visually enough that it isn't so.. well... bandy....

- Also, speaking of those red caps: having some stack caps/node covers with that same basic red-dome geometry and texture to put on the ends of various tanks and things would make it easier to integrate them into the MKS-colony style. The top side of the geometry you've been using is flat enough that they could double as part-size adapters without having to make special provisions for it.

Mechanics questions -- stuff I haven't been able to find or figure out yet that would be helpfull for planning moving forward:

- How exactly does productivity affect production rates? How much of an influence does it have, and for really stupid kerbals how severe is the penalty for a negative production value?

- Is the rate of resource consumption affected by the productivity value, or just the rate of production?

- Does the total productivity value actually affect anything, or is it just a reference index for the base?

- How does the % efficiency value relate to the productivity value? Does one affect another, or are they applied independently?

- How much does RapidConstruction add to production and consumption rates in the Construction Hub? Particularly in terms of energy consumption.

- Also, I was under the impression that production modules were supposed to be able to use resources directly from nearby MKS rover bays, even without a direct docking connection. I haven't been able to get this to work, and am wondering if I've misunderstood the purpose and function of the proximity logistics system.

Thoughts on current gameplay balance, etc.

- One of the biggest things I've been looking at so far in my little test facility as I prepare for my next phase expansion is energy consumption and management. TBH, this aspect of the mod seems rather poorly balanced for planetary operations (given the extended periods it's necessary to operate without solar power), and should be looked at very closely before you go full release.

Consider trying to follow the wiki walkthrough for a Duna mission, for example.

The suggested Pioneer Colony Mission package is:

Mission MKS Payload:

1 ColonyHub

1 ConstructionHub

1 Mining Storage Unit (either Jumbo or Inline)

1 Supply Storage Unit (either Jumbo or Inline)

Other Equipment:

Pioneer Crew (Two Kerbals)

Drilling unit (All Kethane drills have been modified to also mine Ore/Substrate/Water/Kethane)

Life Support (Enough to support our crew for 500 days)

ColonySupplies (A 500 day supply, or 100 units with this MKS payload)

Connectivity (KAS, Docking Ports, etc.) to ensure all four MKS modules above are connected.

The one really, really important thing that this list is missing is:

- Either bring at least 250,000 electric charge worth of batteries in order to maintain production through Duna's ~9 hour night (for just those two MKS modules + life support), or else be prepared to switch production off every planetary night and back on again every planetary dawn (that's having to stop everything and flip the switch nearly 1000 times over the course of a game year).

If you add in the Mission 3 package later (and run only the bare minimum suggested production modules), that adds another ~120k in nightly energy storage capacity demand.

That's a rather substantial commitment -- either in terms of mission payload or real-life time spent micro-managing -- and Duna isn't even ~that bad~ compared to some worlds (a base on the Mun requires twice as much battery, for starters). The fact that's it's not mentioned at all in an otherwise excellent and comprehensive guide sounds like you haven't had the chance to look at it on a sustained testing basis yet. I'd strongly suggest that you take the time to do so before going "live". It's a pretty huge balance element.

The PDU is a nice addition and it's a powerful little unit, but it doesn't even come close to closing the gap in terms of energy storage requirements for sustained planetary colonies unless you're looking at sending 50-90% PDUs along with every mission package, depending on the destination and mission profile. While it could be made 10-20 times stronger, at that point it would be getting pretty ridiculous in terms of general game balance. Cutting production energy demands to 1/10 or 1/20 of current levels across the board on all modules strikes me as a better option to investigate first.

Anyway, those are my observations, etc. from what I've been able to try out so far. More will come along eventually, I'm sure -- despite my few grumbles here and there, it's a great package and I'm having a lot of fun exploring it.

[JonnyMonroe]

I've not found energy to be quite such a problem on my Mun colony. Granted I'm only running 6 modules full time right now (7 if you include the PDU), but my 140k energy storage lasts a full munar night. That's with Terraformer running both it's modules, Greenhouse running, Kerbitat running both it's modules, Hub and Constructor all running.

Update on the power bug I was having: it seems to happen with a few modules. When I first bring them online after transfering in 750 conParts they just drain out all my energy. Switching to the space center then back to the colony seems to fix the problem though. Only mods I'm running are Kethane, KAS, MKS, chatterer and Hyperedit. Conflict doesn't seem likely but I wouldn't rule it out.

- Also, I was under the impression that production modules were supposed to be able to use resources directly from nearby MKS rover bays, even without a direct docking connection. I haven't been able to get this to work, and am wondering if I've misunderstood the purpose and function of the proximity logistics system.

Yeah, I've not been able to get Proxy Logistics working yet either. My base is starting to get a pretty high part count and I can see the kraken on the horizon, moving closer with every new addition.

[Vim Razz]

That's interesting. I'll have to take a closer look at the output of the PDU. By my count, you're burning around 17k/hr more than I am (4x construction huts + core hub), but my colony's 75k batteries are gone in under 15 minutes once the sun goes down if I don't switch everything off but life support.

Another possibly-relevant question I haven't explored at all yet with MKS is how well energy consumption rates hold under warp. For example: with TAC Life Support, it's a known issue that energy consumption only registers properly up to 50x time acceleration. Past 100x warp, TAC will only burn a fraction of it's listed energy consumption rate, and it becomes more and more "efficient" the faster you go.

Have you noticed anything like this happening? How fast are you warping through your nights on the Mun? I keep fiddling with other stuff and haven't done any high-warp-rate testing myself, yet.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Vim Razz

[JonnyMonroe]

I've warped at a few different rates depending on what I was doing (drilling my mineral supplies back up, waiting on conParts, etc). Whilst some warps have indeed been over 50x, I genuinely cannot remember if I ever did a full night below 50x. I'm about to load up so I'll check now. Your post is the first I've read of TAC messing with warp resource values but I've read all of 0 documentation about TAC so I'll take your word for it.

[Vim Razz]

It's easy to see in TAC -- just open the Time Remaining window in a ship without any solar panels/RTGs/whatever, and play with different warp speeds (make sure you have a ton of batteries, though). Food, Water, and Oxygen Remaining all track properly at any warp speed, but Electricity Remaining starts losing track once you cross 100x.

Anyway, you kind of kind of shamed me into running my own tests tonight, even though I hadn't been planning on it until i got the new batteries in place.

It was kind of messy, though, since I had a bunch of stuff in transit, and had to stop testing a bunch of times to park it in orbit or land the modules that didn't have enough supplies to wait.

As for the test itself, the base was my "Colony One" Minmus test facility that I posted about back here. It hasn't changed any since then -- I was planning on installing the next upgrade this weekend.

I reduced TAC life support energy consumption to zero for the test, so that only the MKS modules would be evaluated, and so that I could safely run the base dry without killing all my kerbals in the process..

Total Battery Storage: 76,540 EC

Theoretical MKS Energy Resource Demands:

- Command Hub, running punchcards: 400,000 EC/day +productivity modifier (if there is one-- I'm not sure, but it seems that there might be)

- 4x Construction Hubs running construction: 4x 1,600,000 EC/day +productivity modifier

Total Theoretical MKS energy demand: 6,800,000 EC/day +productivity modifier (that's ~283,333.3 EC/hour +whatever)

Warp tests:

5x, 10x, 50x Time Warp

- Batteries depleted fully in ~5 minutes

100x Time Warp

- Batteries depleted fully in ~12 minutes

1,000x Time Warp

- Batteries depleted fully in ~1 hour, 50 minutes

10,000x Time Warp

- Only ~2/3 of total battery capacity was used during the entire ~6 hour night cycle

100,000x Time Warp

- Days and nights flashed by too quickly for me to determine how much battery capacity was being used, but production was never interrupted by energy depletion.

So, anyway: that's not really unexpected. I'm not aware of any mod that handles energy consumption accurately past 50x warp, tbh. If anyone knows of one, I'd be interested to check it out.

[RoverDude]

Catching up on the thread, and thanks folks for the great info - this is a huge help. I'm currently working on emmissives so we have working lights, but want to add some of this stuff in.

Dissapearing base: I've not seen this with my older MM, it could very well be an MM or KSP issue with that icon, but to test I am switching over to the latest MM to see how that behaves. Worst case, I'll switch everything to Landers just to make sure this does not cause people problems at launch.

4-Way Hubs: Two ideas. I'm going to first try setting the old hub up with the node order posted earlier in the thread to see if I can get it working right (I'll have to pull the old asset off of Github and rename it). If that fails, I'll make something that's a bit more radially aesthetic.

Tubes: Gotcha on the bandyness, I'll do some playing with the model. Also having separate caps is an excellent idea, and pretty trivial since I just need to clip part of an existing model.

Mechanics Questions:

Efficiency increases the conversion rate. So a module with 200% efficiency will consume and produce at double the speed. This is determined by how many modules you have that are active, how many Kerbals in the ship overall, their intelligence level, and if they are actually inside the module (so crew placement matters). RE stupidity levels - consider that (roughly) a really stupid Kerbal is as valuable as half of an average one, and a smart Kerbal is as good as two average ones. So airlock the stupid ones first

Proxy Logistics Updates:

This one I changed due to performance issues. Proxy Logistics work only between hubs now. Valid hubs are those large round supply huts. All have (at present) a 200m range, and will try to maintain a modest level of resources.

Consider the following base with two disconnected series of MKS components, where Storage A and Storage B are both the jumbo pancake-style Storage Huts (Supply). The dashes would indicate they are physically connected via tubes, etc.

[COLONYUHUB]--[sTORAGE-A]--[CONSTRUCT]

[sTORAGE-B]--[KERBITAT]--[ANTENNA]

If you transfer construction parts to Storage-A, you will instantly see Storage-B try to take a little bit of these. It will always try to maintain this level. So as you pull ConstructionParts from Storage-B into the Kerbitat, Storage-B will instantly take enough resources from Storage-A to keep that minimum level up to date. This can be observed as you do the transfer - you'll see Kerbitat go up, and Storage-B hover around the same number.

The Antenna does the same thing for PunchCards (So you don't need to launch a bunch of Colony Hubs). As the Antenna runs out of cards (I think it tries to keep around 100 or so) it pulls them from any ColonyHub within 200m.

Power Consumption:

Agree on balance, I'm reviewing the rates (part of this is why I have the PDU). As a benchmark, I think having enough to operate on PDU and batteries for a night cycle for four average modules would make the most sense, with solar panels to replenish the batteries. These are large factories, and need serious power (this plays well to the reactors in KSP-I) I'll do some tweaks in that direction. Warp wise, I usually go full-bore for warping, but will do some time tests at 50x to make sure the effect is consistent. Especially if it's the case that I am over-consuming. These balancing parts do not include drills, because those are some power humgry beasts

If there are specific modules that are draining power, let me know. It may be something weird with how TAC-LS works since I subclass off of the TAC GenericConverter. It could also be tied to having a module stuck at 'Active' but missing parts, and when the parts arrive, it tries to play catch-up, thus draining your battery. This may be related to another issue I am chasing down where it thinks there is no space for stuff when a module first kicks in. And thinking out loud, I think there's a very strong corrolation and that it's the root cause of both of these bugs.

Also - Wiki is out of date, I need to re-do the Duna one.

Part Count: I'd be curious what I can do to help reduce part count. Bear in mind a lot of it is less parts and more physics colliders, etc. so in some cases, merging parts does not help (i.e. landing gear) unless I do a really simple box collider that encompasses the landing gear and core module. That being said, I can definitely do a collider review and see what I can merge in.

Again, thanks for the feedback. I'll do another release likely Sunday with the current WIP stuff.

[RoverDude]

FYI no luck on the legacy hub - making it top-attachable pretty much ruins it being able to be attached horizontally and vice versa, going to have to noodle this over a bit.

[crimsonknight3]

The disappearing ship issue - Do you use procedural fairings? I have a disappearing ship issue, only when using those fairings.

Also another question, with the KAS hookup, when you link two end-points there is an option to tell one of the points to "Pump here", do I need to use that?

Reason being I spent about an hour testing KAS and resource transfers etc earlier and it is VERY hard to get resources to move around using KAS, and not even TAC fuel balancer worked, only the Ship manifest mod would move them around, but with this mod it acts a little cheaty whilst landed at ksc (As i was) and allows you to instantly fill or dump tanks etc and while I did "transfer" some liquid fuel from one tank to another I just want to make things clear before I go setting up a base on the mun just to find it isn't working.

My plan was to send up a drill, then send up 2 tanks, one for substrate one for water, connect the two tanks to the lander with the drill, fill them up, then drive them on over (LONG DRIVE) to the spot on the mun where there is a MASSIVE amount of ore/minerals and a reasonable amount of kethane, then I can connect the 2 tanks to my MKS system, but also will be attached to ANOTHER base obviously close by for extra-planetary launchpads, so I have a manned self sufficient MKS base, a base to launch craft from and the facility to build the rocket parts for said crafts.

One other question, how can I connect the mks modules with docking ports, and guarantee they will always line up in situ? Linked into that, once landed how simple is it to get the mks modules close enough for the docking ports to work? Am I going to need to make a tug of some kind? or is it simply a case of skillful flying until the ports touch?

[RoverDude]

Also another question, with the KAS hookup, when you link two end-points there is an option to tell one of the points to "Pump here", do I need to use that?

Reason being I spent about an hour testing KAS and resource transfers etc earlier and it is VERY hard to get resources to move around using KAS, and not even TAC fuel balancer worked, only the Ship manifest mod would move them around, but with this mod it acts a little cheaty whilst landed at ksc (As i was) and allows you to instantly fill or dump tanks etc and while I did "transfer" some liquid fuel from one tank to another I just want to make things clear before I go setting up a base on the mun just to find it isn't working.

Honestly, no idea - I've been doing all of my stuff with docked parts and Proxy Logistics in testing. But the resources should behave like any other resources that allow flow.

One other question, how can I connect the mks modules with docking ports, and guarantee they will always line up in situ? Linked into that, once landed how simple is it to get the mks modules close enough for the docking ports to work? Am I going to need to make a tug of some kind? or is it simply a case of skillful flying until the ports touch?

The current MKS port is REALLY aggressive (may be toned down a bit), which helps a bit with docking. Generally, I make sure everything is at the same level in the VAB first, which helps. You can also (for light gravity) dock in orbit and use a sky crane to drop the assembled unit down, or use IR docking washers to rotate stuff if your aim is a bit off (I hear it now works in 0.23.5)

[Westi29]

If you could make a runway that was long and didn't clip into the ground or move around I'd be soo happy. LOL

[crimsonknight3]

Honestly, no idea - I've been doing all of my stuff with docked parts and Proxy Logistics in testing. But the resources should behave like any other resources that allow flow.

The current MKS port is REALLY aggressive (may be toned down a bit), which helps a bit with docking. Generally, I make sure everything is at the same level in the VAB first, which helps. You can also (for light gravity) dock in orbit and use a sky crane to drop the assembled unit down, or use IR docking washers to rotate stuff if your aim is a bit off (I hear it now works in 0.23.5)

Thanks for your advice, I'll go play some more while my daughter sleeps. I have a tutorial for modular base building in my bookmarks so I might use that to make the modules mobile enough that I can easily configure/reconfigure in situ, need to unlock some more stuff on career mode to make life easier I think lol

[Vim Razz]

@crimsonknight3 -

I do have Proc Fairings installed, so I'll add that to the suspect list if the problem resurfaces. Thanks!

The "pump here" option using KAS pipe fittings is a new thing in the latest version that's supposed to allow pipes to act as fuel lines. I haven't tried it out yet so I'm not sure how well it works, but it isn't needed for mining or transferring materials manually.

As for "getting things lined up", there are a number of ways to approach it. The biggest thing is just to make sure your legs and docking ports are a consistent height relative to each other on all components. After that, there are a number of possibilities:

- Personally, I have a thing for cranes and large utility rovers. So that's what I like to use....

- Teemsters modular building guide is pretty popular and reliable.

- Attaching wheels directly to things and just driving them into each other is another good way to go. The wheels can be tied onto decouples or KAS pylons if you want to get rid of them later. RoverDude mentioned the KAS pylon trick earlier in this thread, and I find it pretty slick since you can re-attach the wheel assemblies later.

- Skycranes are an option if your flying skills are good enough. (Mine aren't.)

- If you assemble things in orbit, then one of the docking alignment indicator mods can be helpful for getting things straight.

@ Roverdude -

Thanks for the clarification about the current state of proxy logistics. That should be useful for giving my dumber kerbals a place to live (the supply shed) without having them get in the way of primary production. (No, I don't want to airlock them! That's horrible! ) It also provides a more unique function to the Supply Hubs than just being pretty storage containers, which is great. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Regarding production rates: so the only thing affecting production rates on the MKS side of things is the overall % Efficiency value? EPL's production values appear to be influencing individual MKS module's production rates (that is: MKS modules with smart Kerbals in them are producing noticeably faster than modules with stupid kerbals inside of them while running MKS alongside EPL). Is this intended?

The overall affect isn't a bad thing (it adds another dimension to individual kerbal assignments within the base), I'm just still trying to wrap my head around the way the two mods are interacting with each other. I've set up another test install running MKS without EPL to try and get a better feel for things, and will see what I can document -- I think it's safe to say that MKS+EPL will be popular together.

I'm also seeing efficiency rates of up to 250% for modules that are actively staffed by kerbals, though 200% seems to be the cap for unmanned modules. Is this working as intended? It's happening both with and without EPL installed, so I know it's not related to that.

I've also been wondering is what exactly the three numbers listed after the efficiency value refer to. (ie: "Efficiency 200% [1k/10s/1m")

And, of course, if MKS and EPL are influencing each other in unpredictable ways, then that might relate back to the disappearing ship question again -- Green Skull had mentioned experiences with EPL being unstable in that regard. Dunno. We'll see. As I posted earlier, though, I haven't lost any MKS ships yet since upgrading MM from 2.0.3 to 2.0.7 earlier this week.

Regarding energy consumption: "a night" can be pretty variable depending on where you're setting up shop. You might consider starting with a specific target and mission and look at balancing from there -- your Duna walkthough Pioneer Mission concept, for example, has got kind of an iconic feel to it.

Expanding it to 1x Colony Hub, 1x Construction Hut, 1x PDU, and 1x Supply Hut, it looks like you can build a nice little paradrop mission payload that fits into a single 3.75m expanded KW fairing, rolls together on the ground, then pops off the wheels once it's in place (Rough concept sketch -- assumes mining and survey gear were sent on ahead).

The mission profile would be to get Rapid Construction and the PDU's generator up and running to lay the foundation for future expansions, etc. That'd provide 80k batteries to get through the night, plus 27k/hr once the PDU gets online. The question then becomes: how much do you want to be able to support with that?

Anyway... I'm just kind of playing around with ideas.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Vim Razz

[phoenix_ca]

One itty-bitty suggestion/pleading please do.

Add the version number to the filenames of your dropbox zips. It'd be...handy. It's not a terrible inconvenience but just, useful.

[JonnyMonroe]

With regards to physics, would it be possible to just disable physics on modules which are firmly on the ground? call it something like an anchor mode or what have you. I don't think reducing part count would be a solution since people will just use that as an excuse to take more parts with them.

Quick question regarding the new Proxy Logistics functionality: will this still be self sustaining across a separated colony? the way you describe it, it sounds like you would need to move parts manually to the storage units in order for other storage units to pull from them.

[RoverDude]

With regards to physics, would it be possible to just disable physics on modules which are firmly on the ground? call it something like an anchor mode or what have you. I don't think reducing part count would be a solution since people will just use that as an excuse to take more parts with them.

Quick question regarding the new Proxy Logistics functionality: will this still be self sustaining across a separated colony? the way you describe it, it sounds like you would need to move parts manually to the storage units in order for other storage units to pull from them.

It should be self sustaining (i.e. if a Storage Hut for supply sees it is getting low on food, it should try to pull it from another nearby Storage Hut).

(Addendum) and there may be some weirdness RE physics, would need to play with it.

Edited May 4, 2014 by RoverDude