Debunk Help

[SSR Kermit]

To be honest, if you would get that far it would be major news and probably worthy of a Nobel prize.

Whoah, sorry, I am not letting you get away with handwavy references. For these major kind of statements you need at least one truly reputable source (like a medical journal of any quality) and preferably more.

Without it this is just a typical internet story.

*Sigh*

Ok, Mr. Internet Tough Guy.

Here's a good paper that gives a general overview:

US National Library of Medicine

Here's the application of the fingertip results:

McGowan Institute

I guess the 2 million people who have recieved ECM treatments are part of some conspiracy?

EDIT: Besides, what does the Swedish Royal Academy have to do with this? The Nobel Prize?

Edited March 22, 2014 by SSR Kermit
Sweden

[Red Iron Crown]

Yeah, it wasn't hard to find a bunch of articles about it, though the story seems to be the researcher fixed his brother's finger rather than his own.

Fascinating stuff, I hadn't realized we'd come so far in this field.

[Camacha]

*Sigh*

Ok, Mr. Internet Tough Guy.

I think we all benefit from discussions based on proper facts. That has nothing to do with trying to be a tough guy As we are talking about debunking stuff, Google is a little bit too broad to be considered a source.

Here's a good paper that gives a general overview:

US National Library of Medicine

Sadly, the full text does not seem to be available and the abstract is quite... abstract. I am finding some other more internet type articles though, although the more medically inclined tend to speak of mice rather than men.

I feel the finger story is a bit dodgey, to be honest. I will ask some more medically knowledgable people what they know, can find and think.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Camacha

[SSR Kermit]

I think we all benefit from discussions based on proper facts. That has nothing to do with trying to be a tough guy As we are talking about debunking stuff, Google is a little bit too broad to be considered a source.

Sadly, the full text does not seem to be available and the abstract is quite... abstract. I am finding some other more internet type articles though.

I feel the finger story is a bit dodgey, to be honest. I will ask some more medically knowledgable people what they know, can find and think.

Here's the application of the fingertip results:

McGowan Institute

2 million treatments.

I guess you don't watch Oprah, or the news?

[SSR Kermit]

Yeah, it wasn't hard to find a bunch of articles about it, though the story seems to be the researcher fixed his brother's finger rather than his own.

Fascinating stuff, I hadn't realized we'd come so far in this field.

His brother? Hmm.. then that's rather unethical; could be though, it wouldn't surprise me if the story gets changed a bit among researchers in the same field.

[K^2]

Description of warp drive is very shaky, but it's on the right track. Unfortunately, we only have warp capabilities on paper so far. So no FTL ships used by our (or anyone else's) gov't.

Stealth tech isn't as far along, either. There are metamaterials that can bend light as described, but nobody figured out how to build them into an armor yet. They have some properties that don't make them suitable for construction.

On medical, we can't print something like a replacement arm yet, but we're really close on that. So that one's almost believable. The rest are nonsense.

[jfull]

What would be the point of hiding FTL capability from the public? I mean, seriously, how and why would you keep that secret?

[Red Iron Crown]

What would be the point of hiding FTL capability from the public? I mean, seriously, how and why would you keep that secret?

Obviously to keep it from the aliens living among us.

[Camacha]

Here's the application of the fingertip results:

McGowan Institute

2 million treatments.

It seems the source is referring to stimulating finger tip regeneration under specific circumstances, which was already known to naturally happen in younger children and some adults. That is a bit different from growing them back artificially and certainly something else than growing back complete fingers or even limbs.

I would very much like to see those things happen, but I think it will be some time. It would be nice to have some insurance in a case of acute stupidity

I guess you don't watch Oprah, or the news?

I hope you are joking. The news might be a source of news on developments, but has a tendency to misinterpret them and to be oversimplistic (for example, an important small step is translated into a miracle cure). Oprah can not be considered a serious source of information on anything medical (other than the obvious live healthy and eat proper stuff, perhaps, maybe). Besides, I do not tend to watch it.

His brother? Hmm.. then that's rather unethical; could be though, it wouldn't surprise me if the story gets changed a bit among researchers in the same field.

That is one of the things that has me doubting the story. Some guy experimenting on a close relative is not the typical (modern) medical approach, to say the least.

On medical, we can't print something like a replacement arm yet, but we're really close on that. So that one's almost believable. The rest are nonsense.

Close is an optimistic view, but not a terribly unreasonable one. As stated before, simple organs like bladders are currently grown and/or printed with some succes. More complex and solid things are not possible yet and harder to do, but they are working on it - for instance by using printed sugar substrates as a basis for vascular systems.

I must admit I am a lot more familiar with the printing part than the growing process, although the latter seems to be always needed in combination with the former. It seems obvious to me that organs with good (re)generative qualities like the liver are the first non-hollow organs to be succesfully grown - they probably only need some nudging in the right direction to get going. I think it will be some time before we can simply replace limbs though.

[jwenting]

Obviously to keep it from the aliens living among us.

now you're confusing me. Weren't those the ones that the government colluded with at Area 51 to cover up the Rosswell incident that provided the air force with that warp drive in the first place?

[78stonewobble]

It seems the source is referring to stimulating finger tip regeneration under specific circumstances, which was already known to naturally happen in younger children and some adults. That is a bit different from growing them back artificially and certainly something else than growing back complete fingers or even limbs.

I would very much like to see those things happen, but I think it will be some time. It would be nice to have some insurance in a case of acute stupidity

I hope you are joking. The news might be a source of news on developments, but has a tendency to misinterpret them and to be oversimplistic (for example, an important small step is translated into a miracle cure). Oprah can not be considered a serious source of information on anything medical (other than the obvious live healthy and eat proper stuff, perhaps, maybe). Besides, I do not tend to watch it.

That is one of the things that has me doubting the story. Some guy experimenting on a close relative is not the typical (modern) medical approach, to say the least.

Close is an optimistic view, but not a terribly unreasonable one. As stated before, simple organs like bladders are currently grown and/or printed with some succes. More complex and solid things are not possible yet and harder to do, but they are working on it - for instance by using printed sugar substrates as a basis for vascular systems.

I must admit I am a lot more familiar with the printing part than the growing process, although the latter seems to be always needed in combination with the former. It seems obvious to me that organs with good (re)generative qualities like the liver are the first non-hollow organs to be succesfully grown - they probably only need some nudging in the right direction to get going. I think it will be some time before we can simply replace limbs though.

In my mind here... There is certainly very very far from regrowing a fingertip (which can apparently happen naturally) and then to either regrowing a complete finger with nerves, bloodvessels and bone or the even more complex organs or artificially growing anything.

If I had to personally guess on a timeline for this? Before we invent an AI and probably a good deal after we get fusion power running. So ... 50-100 years?

[Camacha]

In my mind here... There is certainly very very far from regrowing a fingertip (which can apparently happen naturally) and then to either regrowing a complete finger with nerves, bloodvessels and bone or the even more complex organs or artificially growing anything.

As far as I understand, the finger tips can actually regenerate bone, nerves, nails and blood vessels. The requirement is that the finger is cut somewhere within the nail. If you lose more than that, you probably lose it permanently.

The restoring capabilities of things like nerves are quite amazing - you can actually sever them somewhere down your hand and, over time (think years), a new nervous system will grow back from the point of the break to the finger tips, slowly restoring touch. I can imagine that this is some kind of contingency plan, as the sensitive and dextrous fingers of man are quite important for his ability to function.

[78stonewobble]

As far as I understand, the finger tips can actually regenerate bone, nerves, nails and blood vessels. The requirement is that the finger is cut somewhere within the nail. If you lose more than that, you probably lose it permanently.

The restoring capabilities of things like nerves are quite amazing - you can actually sever them somewhere down your hand and, over time (think years), a new nervous system will grow back from the point of the break to the finger tips, slowly restoring touch. I can imagine that this is some kind of contingency plan, as the sensitive and dextrous fingers of man are quite important for his ability to function.

You're probably right about that last bit, though I don't think evolution have planning per say. ...

The body does have some regenerative properties (liver can grow back, fingertips, woundhealing) or backups (2 kidneys?) and the brain is sometimes flexible enough that you can regain use after some brain damage (other areas take over).

It's still a jump to get a finger to regenerate beyond a joint and from scratch grow a new fingerbone and there are still plenty of people in wheelchairs with spinal damage.

[Lukaszenko]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. FTL travel and the like is as extraordinary as it gets. Sure, it's POSSIBLE, but highly unlikely. There are infinite amounts of such possibilities, and so it is quite useless to discuss them without the aforementioned evidence, as then it is only a discussion of far-fetched "what ifs" and "maybes".

[Drunken Hobo]

Obviously to keep it from the aliens living among us.

Nonsense - we already know.