The Munar Skif, a Ker-Flow-Full light rocket design.

[sal_vager]

Edit: I added an RCS tank and 3 thrusters to the Munar Skif, landed on the Mun, and successfully returned with all crew alive, screenshots and info below or click here: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=7229.msg105292#msg105292

Or click here for the old 0.13.2 Imgur gallery of my flight:

https://imgur.com/a/WPNJ3#0

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'Boy\'s, we need another rocket!'

Kodger looked up from the factory floor where a half finished Little Sipper stood, surrounded by scaffolding, stacks of pipes, and an eager Kanley working the controls to the companies antique hand operated winch.

'What\'s wrong with this one boss?'

Kigwig wiped his brow as he reached the bottom of the stairs 'Nothings wrong, it\'s fine, but we need one that\'ll just orbit the Mun, it doesn\'t need to land, oh and it\'s got to look nicer'

'The wife, she not like this one then? I ask that as I know you were going to take her to see the sea of serenity this weekend'

Kodger saw his boss\'s discomfort when he spoke 'Well yeah, Henrietta thought it was, well, a bit stumpy'

'Stumpy? Well I don\'t know how we\'d make it less \'Stumpy\' but we\'ll give it a go boss'

'Thanks Kodger' smiled Kigwig as he started up the stairs to the office.

Kodger turned and cupped his hands to his mouth like a megaphone 'Ok boy! We need to make her look less \'Stumpy\'! Got any idea\'s?'

Distracted by the yelling, Kanleys hands slipped on the crank, and the fuel tank he\'d been just about to place crashed into the side of the Little Sipper, knocking it flat, sending dust billowing and pipes rolling across the floor.

'Oh no now I\'m for it!'

When the dust settled, Kanley looked up to see Kigwig standing open mouthed, looking down at the destruction below.

'I\'m sorry boss!'

But Kigwig was silent for a moment, the rocket, though broken and creaking, looked just like a giant 'H'

'Boys, make it look like that, it\'s perfect!'

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The Munar Skif, a Ker-Flow-Full light rocket design.

Visit the Mun in this stock ship with only eight (8) tanks (Now capable of Munar landing and return)

New from Ker-Flow-Full sewerage and pipeworks, a ship so small we couldn\'t even fit the second F on the side, intended for sightseeing trips to Munar orbit.

This super economy model will set you back a mere eight tanks of premium rocket juice and will test your ability with it\'s all-manual control system.

Also available is a winged version, which we believe will become a popular Kristmas toy for Kerbins youth.

Please be aware however, that the wings are just for atmospheric maneuvering and are not designed for Munar landing, Ker-Flow-Full sewerage and pipeworks can not be held responsible for customers attempts to land this vehicle on the Mun.

(Updated for 0.14 compatibility)

The Munar Skif on the pad

Ascending to orbit

booster separation

In orbit

Mun transfer burn

High orbit around the Mun

Passing craters at 5k on the terminator

Strange terrain on farside

More rough ground on the eastern point

Time to return

Back at Kerbin after aerobraking

Final burn to deorbit

Releasing the capsule

Landing near the KSC

[sal_vager]

I had to try landing it.

Trying for a Mun landing

This is the first time I have landed on an engine without breaking it

Lifting off again, so little fuel

Need to get orbital speed

Oh dear

I\'m not going to make it

Kaboom!

[yaang]

you can easily land on the moon and get back if you add 1 more fuel tank under the command module

[sal_vager]

Yeah I know, I already have a version with the extra tank and another with ASAS instead of the stack decoupler seeing as they weigh the same.

The point behind this ship was to see what 8 tanks could do, and I think if I was careful enough and did a bi-elliptical transfer orbit, the Skif could return from the Mun, but it\'ll be incredibly close.

And anyway I already made a 9 tank ship, the Little Sipper

[sal_vager]

I just made a successful landing on the Mun, and returned with all crew, with this tiny 8 tank ship and a single RCS.

I had already landed the Skif before but didn\'t have enough fuel to return, or even to get into Munar orbit.

After reading lawsonuw\'s post here regarding a 3 and 4 thruster, single RCS tank return from the mun, and after trying a 4 thruster return myself, I decided to give it a shot.

lawsonuw\'s post: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=7311.0

I was worried about weight so decided to go with 3 thrusters, in hindsight I might have been able to carry the extra 50 grams, I could have escaped Mun at 2 million meters and aerobraked at a higher altitude.

As it was I struggled a bit with only 3, I needed the nose up quite high to keep from losing altitude.

I flew as efficiently as I know how, only thrusting at apoapsis and periapsis except for one burn to avoid a Munar collision, when my \'apsis moved away from me I\'d stop thrusting and catch it up.

All transfer orbits were of the Hohmann type, as I haven\'t mastered Bi-ellipticals yet, so I don\'t know if that would improve fuel reserves.

And yeah I was bricking it when I was almost out of gas and thought I might hit land

Edit: The server move has corrupted the images left on the site and this gallery was the only one I made before I made an Imgur acount, so I have to re-fly the whole thing.

Here is the link to the old Imgur gallery, I\'ll update with pics from 0.14.4 later: https://imgur.com/a/WPNJ3#0

The Skif with an RCS return stage

Not in orbit yet, need to circularize the orbit

In stable orbit, I tried to safe as much fuel as possible

Post Munar transfer burn

I\'ll be coming in fast and low

After the De-orbit burn, not much fuel left

Thankfully the Mun is smooth here

Down and safe, I had a smidgen of fuel left for a launch assist, but there was not enough clearance for the engine

Return stage lifting off

Back in orbit but I used a lot of gas to get here

Accelerating slowly with only 3 thrusters

In hindsight I could have raised the Apoapsis further, it would have saved fuel on the Kerbin De-orbit

Recaptured

I managed to get my Periapsis low enough for aerobraking

It\'s a good thing too as I have only whispers of gas remaining

Not safe yet, I need a water landing

The blue line shortens as I plunge through the atmosphere, getting closer to land

Relief as the coastline passes below

Coming down for a survivable water landing

It\'s an incredible feeling to be back after all that

[DrLucky]

Nice.

My experience with Mun landing was like your first:

I\'m sure I was less than efficient. I set it down very gently, but the uneven terrain tipped it over after it slid a bit, and that popped off the capsule.

[sal_vager]

At least Jeb and co have a nice view while they wait for their air to run out

I made a landing and return with a modified Skif, I had to add an RCS tank to get home with and four wings to land on, the .craft is above if you\'re up for a challenge as it\'s not easy with such a small ship.

I think this is as far as I can go with tiny Munar craft, at least until there are new stock parts, next up I\'ll be trying to deliver a satellite (one full fuel tank) to a geostationary orbit as efficiently as possible.

Have fun flying

[kevinlacht]

Nice!

[lawsonuw]

Cool little ship! The capsule RCS and 3-4 thruster unit is pretty good at holding together in a tip-over. You might try leaving off the landing wings next time so you have more of a fuel cushion.

When I fly the RCS return module I try to do as much of the return burn close to the Munar surface as I can. So far I\'ve aimed to break a ~5-10K orbit at 800m/s, I\'ll try 850m/s next. It should also be more efficient to orbit against the Munar rotation ( a ~20m/s hit) and break orbit in the same spot to try leaving the Munar sphere of influence far from Kerth with a minimum of angular momentum. (i.e. trying something more like a bi-elliptic return) My goal is to be in an orbit intersecting Kerth\'s surface when I leave the Munar sphere of influence.

Lawson

[lawsonuw]

Cool little ship! The capsule RCS and 3-4 thruster unit is pretty good at holding together in a tip-over. You might try leaving off the landing wings next time so you have more of a fuel cushion.

When I fly the RCS return module I try to do as much of the return burn close to the Munar surface as I can. So far I\'ve aimed to break a ~5-10K orbit at 800m/s, I\'ll try 850m/s next. It should also be more efficient to orbit against the Munar rotation ( a ~20m/s hit) while breaking orbit in the same spot with the goal of leaving the Munar sphere of influence far from Kerth with a minimum of angular momentum. (i.e. trying something more like a bi-elliptic return) My eventual goal is to be in an orbit intersecting Kerth\'s surface when I leave the Munar sphere of influence.

Lawson

[Redrumsalad]

This ship actually gave me a great idea. I combined two ship designs (this and a much lighter version of the TRIDENT-01) Which was able to land me on the moon, and then return! I will probably upload it sometime soon.

[sal_vager]

How\'s that meme go?

Yo dawg I put a ship under your ship, so you could fly to the Mun while you fly to the Mun!

The Skif can already do a Munar landing and return, scroll up for the \'Munar Skif + RCS return.craft\' file if you want a challenge

I bet the TRIDENT/Skif hybrid would be perfect for a flight to Murs though

[MrBark]

I took this design and added my own touches. I have to thank you. I FINALLY have a fun ship to fly with few parts, so my computer won\'t get bogged down during launch. I think it\'ll be my work-horse for version 13.2, possibly beyond with tweaks.

I changed the main part, so it\'s now: Parachute/CM > Stack Decoupler / ASAS / RCS & thrusters / Stack Decoupler / Engine

Then, I did everything in fours instead of a pair. For the landing wings, I used two sets of four, eight total, straddling the four booster stacks. On the booster stacks, I topped them with SASs and put two sets of wings on them, eight total, four on top, four on bottom.

Then below the four booster stacks, I threw four stack decouplers, then four tricouplers holding one tank / engine combo each, for a total of twelve tanks and engines. I also added support beams out the whazoo to ensure the thing stayed solid during launch, no wiggling.

The staging goes like this. The Tricoupled Boosters (12 engines) get me to the stratosphere straight up. Then, the 4-sided enhanced design of your craft gets me almost to orbit. With four full tanks and one engine. I can achieve orbit, TMI, and land on the Mun, only breaking a couple of wings in the process! I have confidence I will be able to return the crew safely one day when I improve my flying skills.

(Unfortunately, my first landing resulted in total fuel depletion after launching into munar orbit. Those poor guys found themselves stuck there forever. My second landing hit a bug in the game or something. I landed with zero velocity in good working order, minus two broken wings. Then, I positioned the camera to see Kerbal and hit time compression so I could watch it go through phases. I did this on the first flight with no problems. When I hit time compression, the ship broke on me for no reason, so they\'re stuck there now too.)

A couple of weird things about my design though. First, you can\'t see the CM until jettisoning the boosters unless you move the camera, no big deal. The second however is more serious, but not a problem if you fly it correctly. My design does not like changing direction under power until after the seperation of the four booster stacks. I lose all control if I attempt pitch-over under power. It\'s not intuitive, but also not a problem. The thing climbs like a bat out of hell! Going straight up at launch, I can achieve apoasis of 70K when I\'m at 40K altitude. I just shutdown the rocket, pitch over to the horizon, and power on again. There\'s plenty of time. I\'ll just consider it 'character,' as I\'m quite content with the end result of launch.

If anyone is interested, I can post a *.craft file, but I don\'t have access to it now. I think I described it well enough for anyone wanting to try it now though. I did want to thank you though, because for the first time I\'m experiencing a lot of fun with minimal frustrations!

[sal_vager]

I\'d love to see pics and I\'d like the craft file too, I\'m glad the design helped inspire you, I prefer my ships small and processor friendly

If you like the Skif, help me name my new direct ascent series here: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=7750.0

Also try out the Little Sipper and the Shamrock, the Sipper is a challenge and the Shamrock is a well behaved miniature orbiter.

Shamrock: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0

Little Sipper: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=7225.0

[MrBark]

I\'ll try to get around to it in the next few days. I was up late playing, so I\'m pretty tired and probably won\'t fire up the game tonight.

Also, I have a few ideas that I might try to implement. I named my incarnations Cradle because it seemed the boosters were cradling the CSM to me. Cradle-1 was really your design, with x4 boosters instead of x2. Cradle-2 had my x4 tricoupled engines added at the bottom. I\'m thinking of some slight redesigns for Cradle-3\'s CSM. I also might redo the struts so it doesn\'t look so ugly if I\'m going to show it to other people too. LOL.

I would love to check out the other crafts. (I really need more free time.)

[MrBark]

Great success! I feel so good, I had to share the mission in my own thread here: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=7917.msg115383#msg115383

However, I did want you to see the craft file. Turns out my ideas for Cradle-3 weren\'t good, so I went back to Cradle-2 and landed on the Mun instead. Thanks again for the inspiration.

[Darkshadow]

Do you have any tips on fuel efficiency? Especially for escaping the atomosphere and making a stable orbit. All my designs have been large and brutish just to ensure that there is more than enough fuel from TMI onwards. I\'m temped to design a couple of smaller munar crafts using the single RCS return design.

[sal_vager]

Okay here\'s how I do it, may not be the best way though but it works for me.

I keep full throttle on the ascent, and make pitchover at 12k to 13k, this is high enough to be out of the thickest air.

I pitch to an angle of 45 degrees east and hold it there while watching my Apoapsis on the map screen, checking for when boosters expire or watching my G meter for a drop-off.

Sometimes I pitch again to 68 degrees east once my Apoapsis reaches 60k, but it seems not to help reduce fuel use, makes it easier to circularize my orbit though.

When my Apoapsis hits 70.5 to 71k, I shut down the engines and coast until the rocket is close to the same altitude, I lose some height but don\'t worry about it.

Then I level off and relight, trying to raise my Periapsis without going in front of the Apoapsis marker, tilting the nose up can help.

When the Periapsis is also over 70k I shutdown and start breathing again

I find with a large ship, it can help to pitch to around 35 to 40 degrees, as the best ballistic trajectory seems to be when the flight marker is at 45 degrees rather than the nose of the rocket.

I am trying to find a more efficient method, maybe Closette\'s work on throttle position can improve things.

[MrBark]

Do you have any tips on fuel efficiency? Especially for escaping the atomosphere and making a stable orbit. All my designs have been large and brutish just to ensure that there is more than enough fuel from TMI onwards. I\'m temped to design a couple of smaller munar crafts using the single RCS return design.

sal_vager\'s comments are good. I think something to keep in mind though, and this is something sal_vager opened my eyes to, is that if you can get your acceleration INSANELY HIGH, you don\'t even need to do all that much to achieve orbit. The drawback of monster rockets, besides the lag I experience in the game, is it takes a...long...time...to build up acceleration, and you lose it quickly when the thrust goes down, like at staging. You end up working your way into orbit. With my craft, based on sal_vager\'s skif, I think I\'m in the 200-300/mps range at first staging and 400+/mps when I perform my first and only pitch-over, which is why I can afford to completely shutdown to change direction for an extended period. It\'s so light, that thing almost falls into orbit. Not really, but it is FUN to fly it.

If you want any specific tips about flying Cradle-2, let me know.