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I'm Going To Tylo!

The Jedi Master

By The Jedi Master
in KSP1 Discussion

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Random Tank

Random Tank

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One thing about Tylo: You don't need to use high TWR engines for take-off. Because it has no atmosphere, there isn't anything slowing you down and wasting your fuel in a slow ascent (if you tried this on Kerbin, you'd kill a lot of fuel by spending too long in the atmosphere). Therefore, so long as your TWR is above 1, you can use high ISP engines rather than high thrust engines. Also, adding just enough engines to make TWR>1 will save weight compared to engine spam, which is always good!

Landing is more difficult, so the reason why I use higher thrust engines here is to allow me to do easier Suicide Burns; yes they waste more fuel, but a normal 'thrust all/most of the way down' can often waste fuel due pilot error, so that's why I do suicide burns. I'm tempted to use 3 of those Service Propulsion engines from KW as they are efficient but high thrust... :D

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Kasuha

Kasuha

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One thing about Tylo: You don't need to use high TWR engines for take-off.

Actually... when taking off in atmosphere, anything above TWR 2 is a waste because you'll spend fuel ineffectively on atmospheric drag. On bodies without atmosphere, the bigger TWR the better because it means you'll get out of the ineffective phase of the ascent sooner.

Only once in safe orbit your TWR stops being a concern.

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NecroBones

NecroBones

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That's the thing, if your TWR is barely over 1 (with respect to local gravity, as opposed to thrust:mass ratio), most of your fuel is going into fighting gravity, and your upward acceleration will be low. High TWR is great when there's no atmosphere, since it's not being wasted on drag, and you spend less time fighting gravity.

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Lukaszenko

Lukaszenko

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And a high TWR will also be helpful when landing. I had to waste a lot of thrust in the downward direction instead of purely retrograde due to inadequate TWR. Point is that on Tylo descent and ascent, a stronger engine might lose delta-v due to weight, but it will gain delta-v due to reduced gravity losses. Somewhere there is a balance, and I'm pretty sure it's not at a ~1 TWR.

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kookoo_gr

kookoo_gr

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For Tylo you will need about 6300 ÃŽâ€V. Asparagus staging is the way to go. At your lander you will only need 2 RTG's and not the big monopropelant tank, also brake the ship into two parts, the lander and the drive ship to get you to Tylo and back to Kerbin. Are you going to Tylo at career mode or sandbox? If it is the later the you can use a command chair and don't forget to place an SAS unit since you will need the extra torque, if you want to get science then the lander can is the way to go. When landing/taking off you can go as low as 14Km into a safe orbit. Here is my Tylo lander from the Jool-5 challenge. Needless to say i didn't have the necessary ÃŽâ€V and barely made it to orbit with RCS.

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Edited by kookoo_gr
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SkyRender

SkyRender

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tylo_lander.jpg

I cooked this up this morning for a potential Tylo mission. It has about 3300dV for landing and the same for lifting off again, and is modular (meaning you can in fact just attach a new landing stage to the return vehicle and refuel said return vehicle, and you'll be able to make a second landing on Tylo as a result).

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The Jedi Master

The Jedi Master

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-snip-

I cooked this up this morning for a potential Tylo mission. It has about 3300dV for landing and the same for lifting off again, and is modular (meaning you can in fact just attach a new landing stage to the return vehicle and refuel said return vehicle, and you'll be able to make a second landing on Tylo as a result).

Mind giving me a .craft file?

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SkyRender

SkyRender

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Mind giving me a .craft file?

Sure! Just one important caveat: there is no RCS on board. It's designed with the dual-docking-port system for a reason, and that is that you should keep that heavy hypergolic fuel mixture the heck away from Tylo's surface if you want to get off it again. It's intended that you use a pair of RCS tugs (docking port + probe body + RCS tank and 4 RCS thruster blocks + docking port), one on either end, to pull it back to its mothership if you're not good with RCS-less docking.

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magnemoe

magnemoe

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http://www.skyrender.net/lp2/ksp/tylo_lander.jpg

I cooked this up this morning for a potential Tylo mission. It has about 3300dV for landing and the same for lifting off again, and is modular (meaning you can in fact just attach a new landing stage to the return vehicle and refuel said return vehicle, and you'll be able to make a second landing on Tylo as a result).

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SkyRender

SkyRender

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One of the nice things about a modular lander design is that you can easily retrofit it with whatever you need. To wit: you can just attach a small fuel tank with landing legs in place of the Tylo landing module for landing on the other moons of the Jool system. The only one it can't easily handle is Laythe, and even there you could jerry-rig something up if you're particularly clever.

The short of it is that modularity is your friend in the Jool system.

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CalculusWarrior

CalculusWarrior

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Landing is Easy.

Taking off AFTER that landing?

A whole new beast.

Actually, as several people have mentioned, keeping your TWR high for landing is the most important part. If you can't kill your vertical velocity as you're burning to kill your horizontal speed, then you are just wasting fuel. For takeoff, you don't even need that high of a TWR at all, as there is no atmosphere to slow you down.

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  • 2 weeks later...
SkyRender

SkyRender

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Well, the ship crashed into water, meaning it broke a little, but Jeb survived, and since water will not be a concern on Tylo we will call this a successful test.

Having a modular design also helps with that problem, potentially: if the lower half of your rocket will not be going back to space today, you don't have to be too terribly worried if it gets a bit crippled during landing as long as the upper stage remains intact.

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magnemoe

magnemoe

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You need an TWR larger than one then landing, and more than 3km/s dV after landing. In short your TWR can be lower than one then you start, It looks a bit hard to me, you probably need an hybrid, say 2 LV-N and some 48-7S you activates for the final braking and turn off then you start gravity turn.

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