Universal Storage 1.4.0.0 (For KSP 1.4.x) 13th March 2018

[Mecripp]

I hate to ask, but I've searched thoroughly and can't find an answer. What is the workaround for the ECLSS monopropellant bug? I know everyone isn't flying without RCS fuel or just not doing EVA. It seems the most simple solution would be giving Kerbals a full tank of RCS fuel without taking it from the craft. This mod inspired me to use life support and I'm loving it! Great work guys! But I can't edit my config saves to refill monoprop tanks every time I exit the spaceship :/

There isn't 1 that, I know of guess there not going on EVA and that's why some changed to TAC.

[vardicd]

Ok, I'm puzzled, It seems as if the oxygen in this pack {fuel cell} is being consumed at a much faster rate than the hydrogen, shouldn't it use more hydrogen in the fuel cell be used faster, as water is 2 hydrogen atoms for every 1 oxygen? or have I missed something in here?

[cpast]

Hydrogen molecules combine with oxygen molecules at a 2:1 ratio, but oxygen molecules are much bigger and heavier than hydrogen molecules.

[Daishi]

That and the storage tanks in the fuel cell are likely different sizes... how much of a discrepancy is there when the oxygen runs out? We could try resize the tanks in a later build if it annoys you

[vardicd]

Hydrogen molecules combine with oxygen molecules at a 2:1 ratio, but oxygen molecules are much bigger and heavier than hydrogen molecules.

This is true, but in combining them to make water, only the unit count matters. If I have two containers one with 100 units of hydrogen, and one with 100 units of oxygen, the one with oxygen will be denser and heavier, but when I begin making water, the hydrogen will run out, but I will still have 50 units of oxygen. The difference in density won't matter, it only matters in the unit count, and to my understanding that's how KSP measures its resources. I rebalanced the tanks in US to work with my already modded TAC lifesupport, because I didn't care for the default values in the life support mod. The thing is, with the new values, US seems to use or 3 units of oxygen for every unit of hydrogen it consumes in the fuel cell. Is the mod set up so that density matters? Or again have I missed something here?

[erendrake]

This is true, but in combining them to make water, only the unit count matters. If I have two containers one with 100 units of hydrogen, and one with 100 units of oxygen, the one with oxygen will be denser and heavier, but when I begin making water, the hydrogen will run out, but I will still have 50 units of oxygen. The difference in density won't matter, it only matters in the unit count, and to my understanding that's how KSP measures its resources. I rebalanced the tanks in US to work with my already modded TAC lifesupport, because I didn't care for the default values in the life support mod. The thing is, with the new values, US seems to use or 3 units of oxygen for every unit of hydrogen it consumes in the fuel cell. Is the mod set up so that density matters? Or again have I missed something here?

KSP's resource numbers are not apples to apples when it comes to weight. You will need to look at the resource's density definition, not just the 'units' in game to determine the correct ratio of consumption for these two elements to make water.

[vardicd]

This is true, but in combining them to make water, only the unit count matters. If I have two containers one with 100 units of hydrogen, and one with 100 units of oxygen, the one with oxygen will be denser and heavier, but when I begin making water, the hydrogen will run out, but I will still have 50 units of oxygen. The difference in density won't matter, it only matters in the unit count, and to my understanding that's how KSP measures its resources. I rebalanced the tanks in US to work with my already modded TAC lifesupport, because I didn't care for the default values in the life support mod. The thing is, with the new values, US seems to use or 3 units of oxygen for every unit of hydrogen it consumes in the fuel cell. Is the mod set up so that density matters? Or again have I missed something here?

KSP's resource numbers are not apples to apples when it comes to weight. You will need to look at the resource's density definition, not just the 'units' in game to determine the correct ratio of consumption for these two elements to make water.

I sense a headache inducing night of re-modding numbers coming my way...

[Paul Kingtiger]

The difference is in the capacity of the tanks and the amount each resource can be compressed.

You can see from the table below that the O2 tanks have nearly double the volume of the H2 tank (measured using the in game model). In addition the compression ratio between O2 at STP and liquified is 798, where as H2 is only 790. That adds up to the H2 wedge holding aprox. half as much as the O2 wedge (all US resources are measured at STP).

Parts are not balanced to fit usage ratios, they are balanced against what is possible using the model size/shape and physics.

We've done it this way because we have no control over what you'll be using the resources for, so if we balanced for the Fuel cell but you also used life support, you'd run out of O2 quicker than planned. To get it exactly right to your missions requirements you can use tweakables to adjust the amounts carried. Hopefully we'll be able to assign a cost to resources in 0.24+ so that less stuff will cut down on cost both directly and indirectly (through reduced weight).

Edited June 16, 2014 by Paul Kingtiger

[vardicd]

I sense a headache inducing night of re-modding numbers coming my way...

The difference is in the capacity of the tanks and the amount each resource can be compressed.

You can see from the table below that the O2 tanks have nearly double the volume of the H2 tank (measured using the in game model). In addition the compression ratio between O2 at STP and liquified is 798, where as H2 is only 790. That adds up to the H2 wedge holding aprox. half as much as the O2 wedge (all US resources are measured at STP).

https://fdumyg.dm2302.livefilestore.com/y2p0DPtQkRh-oU1DEDM-FhLnv8xLBjRu90aZOHHU7NSZUzIXsoaL-O3vtCB7RUNlBk3LH5KVa1KbCGee-Mh_tutwjXb3JevwsvodF82YP5zRJ4/KSP%20Mods%20and%20Resources%20O2%20H2.png?psid=1

Parts are not balanced to fit usage ratios, they are balanced against what is possible using the model size/shape and physics.

We've done it this way because we have no control over what you'll be using the resources for, so if we balanced for the Fuel cell but you also used life support, you'd run out of O2 quicker than planned. To get it exactly right to your missions requirements you can use tweakables to adjust the amounts carried. Hopefully we'll be able to assign a cost to resources in 0.24+ so that less stuff will cut down on cost both directly and indirectly (through reduced weight).

I'm such a derp. My test craft uses two {TWO} fuel cells to provide power, I was editing the parts to balance, without dividing the values in half, for the {Single Part} values. :facepalm:

After a self-flagellating embarrassed self-rant, I was able to balance the numbers in 2 minutes.

[SpacedInvader]

Is there a dev release or something similar that includes TACLS? I know that the proper release is waiting for TACLS to figure out something with units, but until that is figured out, I don't really have that much use for this mod. I would however, love to start using it, even if the TACLS support isn't official or polished...

[Phazon8058]

Would it be possible for me to edit the part.cfg files for the ECLSS pack to work with TAC instead? I love this mod and I like using the fuel cell and EVAx, But I also want life support.

[SpacedInvader]

Would it be possible for me to edit the part.cfg files for the ECLSS pack to work with TAC instead? I love this mod and I like using the fuel cell and EVAx, But I also want life support.

Now there's an idea... Edit out ECLSS and then add in a modular fuel tank definition to only include TACLS resources. Unless someone has offered up a different option by then, I'll do it when I get home. If you'd like it as well, let me know, I'll PM it to you as I don't want to publicly release anything on this thread without the permission of the mod devs.

[Lekke]

Now there's an idea... Edit out ECLSS and then add in a modular fuel tank definition to only include TACLS resources. Unless someone has offered up a different option by then, I'll do it when I get home. If you'd like it as well, let me know, I'll PM it to you as I don't want to publicly release anything on this thread without the permission of the mod devs.

Could you ask permission to distribute that? I would be intrested in that aswell. I love Tac but the only downside is those ugly parts that come with the mod.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Lekke

[Phazon8058]

That would be greatly appreciated! Thank you very much! I shall now do what I do whenever anybody does me a favour that is KSP related, and I will conduct a mission in your honour.

[SpacedInvader]

Could you ask permission to distribute that? I would be intrested in that aswell. I love ECLSS but the only downside is those ugly parts that come with the mod.

I will ask, but I really think the answer to that is going to be no. This is most likely because a proper pack is in the works and they are not going to want disjointed user base with several different configs.

Edited June 19, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[SpacedInvader]

Well, the good news is that I've got a pretty good idea of how I would want to go about this, but the bad news is that the mod license is such that I can't even share privately without the authors' permission. I'll have to see where that goes before I do anything...

[Lekke]

Well, the good news is that I've got a pretty good idea of how I would want to go about this, but the bad news is that the mod license is such that I can't even share privately without the authors' permission. I'll have to see where that goes before I do anything...

Too bad, I guess I'm stuck with the not so good looking parts until the Tac pack gets released then. If you do get permission please let me know, thanks.

[gm3bq]

First off, I love this design; I can't wait for more parts. But I ran into a small issue with my oxygen tanks after downloading the KAS package, the mass is now at 19.9181. Jeb must have loaded it with liquid metallic Hydrogen instead of O2...

[Phazon8058]

Dang it! Hmm... I think I have an idea of how I could do it myself... It sucks that we can't distribute the config... I don't know if it's just me, but I thought TAC was more popular than ECLSS. I'd never even heard of ECLSS until I saw this mod.

[Paul Kingtiger]

You can edit the files , but you can't distribute those edited files. However there are a couple of options:

1) You should be able to make all the changes with a module manager config file, you can then distribute this file as it's not part of US

2) You can publish a guide for others to change their own files. Such as, delete this bit, then add this code.

[Phazon8058]

You can edit the files , but you can't distribute those edited files. However there are a couple of options:

1) You should be able to make all the changes with a module manager config file, you can then distribute this file as it's not part of US

2) You can publish a guide for others to change their own files. Such as, delete this bit, then add this code.

Well I don't know anything about ModuleManager, so that is out of the question for me. I do have an idea of how to jerry rig TAC support, but it involves deleting US resources and stuff, so I don't think it would be ideal for most people. Thank you anyway.

[RedAV8R]

Well I don't know anything about ModuleManager, so that is out of the question for me. I do have an idea of how to jerry rig TAC support, but it involves deleting US resources and stuff, so I don't think it would be ideal for most people. Thank you anyway.

Might not happen in the time frame you want, but if TAC version isn't released when I'm done with what I have going, I'll tackle this.

And actually it's not going to be a big deal for people, even with RF, because US Resources are actually just a tag, the resource is still just Hydrogen or Oxygen, or whatever, it just has a tag in place. It's easily doable, just have too much going on right now.

[Duxwing]

My craft violently disassemble themselves when any Kerbal removes any wedge: what should I do?

-Duxwing

[Daishi]

Might not happen in the time frame you want, but if TAC version isn't released when I'm done with what I have going, I'll tackle this.

And actually it's not going to be a big deal for people, even with RF, because US Resources are actually just a tag, the resource is still just Hydrogen or Oxygen, or whatever, it just has a tag in place. It's easily doable, just have too much going on right now.

Yeah feel free to do it with module manager files and instructions in the meantime - I'm just not too keen on my models being redistributed is all

My craft violently disassemble themselves when any Kerbal removes any wedge: what should I do?

-Duxwing

Hmm, odd. Does it happen on removing, or attaching wedges as well? Any wedge in particular? Got pics of your craft? No idea why it should be exploding :|

[T3chnic]

Does anyone know if this will work with DangIt?