Universal Storage 1.4.0.0 (For KSP 1.4.x) 13th March 2018

[Daishi]

Does anyone know if this will work with DangIt?

I hope so - if not, I'm sure Ippo could make it work. Give it a try

[SpacedInvader]

Well, I was planning on doing it with a module manager file anyway, so I guess that answers that question. I'll spend some time in it tonight and should have it done tonight or tomorrow.

Are you guys ok with me sharing the MM file on this thread, or would you rather I only share it through pm?

Edited June 20, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[Duxwing]

Hmm, odd. Does it happen on removing, or attaching wedges as well? Any wedge in particular? Got pics of your craft? No idea why it should be exploding :|

My craft disassembled themselves only on removing any wedge from any attachment point; e.g., removing a KAS wedge from the top of the stock 0.625m stack decoupler. The hapless Kerbal removing the wedge would instantly accelerate to a seemingly-random speed on any vector pointing from the ship.

-Duxwing

[Daishi]

Bizarre, and it doesn't do it with other large KAS enabled parts? I think the best bet is to PM a modlist and probably game logs to Paul. There is only so much I can do without my computer, sorry. I suspect its probably another mod related to joints and attachment (joint reinforcement?), or maybe KAS itself causing you strife. Never heard of this bug before :/

[Rayder]

Hi guys,

Starting to get into this mod and I'm really enjoying using the parts. Some I like and others I'll likely remove. But I'm having a problem, specifically with the Science Bay. I noticed the problem doesn't appear on the YouTube tutorial, so I'll show you the issue I'm having.

This is the YouTube video. The radial attach surface works properly.

Here is a screenshot of my game.

The radial surface seems to be inverted. Any ideas what to change in the cfg to fix this?

EDIT: The game also doesn't see them as flat surfaces, instead preferring to rotate them as if it's a curved surface.

Thanks

Edited June 20, 2014 by Rayder

[SpacedInvader]

Hi guys,

Starting to get into this mod and I'm really enjoying using the parts. Some I like and others I'll likely remove. But I'm having a problem, specifically with the Science Bay. I noticed the problem doesn't appear on the YouTube tutorial, so I'll show you the issue I'm having.

This is the YouTube video. The radial attach surface works properly.

http://i.imgur.com/h0QCgDP.jpg

Here is a screenshot of my game.

http://i.imgur.com/ok48rlt.jpg

The radial surface seems to be inverted. Any ideas what to change in the cfg to fix this?

EDIT: The game also doesn't see them as flat surfaces, instead preferring to rotate them as if it's a curved surface.

Thanks

Turn off angle snap and it should work perfectly. I had the same problem and that fixed it for me.

[Rayder]

Ah yes, now it works. Many thanks.

[SpacedInvader]

Ok, so I'm about halfway done with my module manager config for TACLS integration and I'm at a point where I've got a couple of options on how to proceed and would like a little input. The first possibility is to have the TACLS config have all of its own parts (created through referencing the originals with some edits, not by copying models) with TACLS's unitless amounts, which for an oxygen block would be about 84.15 (average human breathing ~550L/day with 46284L in the tank). In this version I would also need to alter the resources so the US Core would use something like LO2 and LH2 to signify that they are in liquid form while also preventing those 46284L from throwing the TACLS balance completely out the window. The other option would be to convert the US Core amounts to match what TACLS would be, while then also scaling the usage rates for the fuel cell to keep them in line with what is already established for this mod.

I think option 2 is the most succinct / least complicated way of doing the integration, but I have concerns that the game will accept an input resource rate of ~0.00006/sec. Option one means more extra parts the game has to load and for users to sort through, but it would preserve the original numbers much better, plus I would include a TACLS converter that would give an appropriate conversion from liquid oxygen to TACLS oxygen units so your LO2 supply could be cut into to give you more O2 in a pinch. I also have plans to include a water purifier, carbon extractor, and maybe even a waste compactor since I keep reading things that hint that the shuttle had such a device.

Anyway, I'd like your thoughts on all of this, keeping in mind that this is still just a stopgap measure until the proper TACLS pack is released.

Edited June 20, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[Rayder]

My personal opinion, is that while KSP is quite realistic in some ways, it is definitely not in others. So with that in mind, I'd not bother with actual or accurate quantities.

So with that said I'd stick with TAC's measurements, as in 1 resource = 1 day. It makes it easier to work with, and know how much you have. You can then ballpark a figure and say "this container could last around 180 days", etc.

If you wanted to change things up a bit (ie not so simple), your recyclers could work on different timescales, so you might get Oxygen faster than you get Water.

I converted the US EVA-X to use TAC scales, and added food into it as well. Just made it a day's supply. If I had to work with actual units, it would take ages. Putting a 1 in each resource is much simpler.

[J.Random]

I have concerns that the game will accept an input resource rate of ~0.00006/sec.

Doesn't it accept such consumption rate for food and poop already? IIRC, food is stored/used as 1 unit per kerbal per 24 hours.

[vardicd]

I would love to know what program you use to make the textures for KSP? I've gotten pretty good and writing and editing code for part files, but I'd love to start making my own models and textures, and would love to hear what you use.

[Paul Kingtiger]

Does anyone know if this will work with DangIt?

I've been testing it with DangIt and so far so good. We both really love that mod and will work to make sure US is fully compatible.

[Duxwing]

Bizarre, and it doesn't do it with other large KAS enabled parts? I think the best bet is to PM a modlist and probably game logs to Paul. There is only so much I can do without my computer, sorry. I suspect its probably another mod related to joints and attachment (joint reinforcement?), or maybe KAS itself causing you strife. Never heard of this bug before :/

Removing the regular KAS box also causes the phenomenon.

-Duxwing

[Daishi]

I would love to know what program you use to make the textures for KSP? I've gotten pretty good and writing and editing code for part files, but I'd love to start making my own models and textures, and would love to hear what you use.

Cool! Its a big learning curve (I still screw up pretty badly) - but the only way to learn is through mistakes I use Maya for modelling, then put the model in Zbrush for UV unwrapping. Doing it this way separates the normally linear workflow of UV unwrapping before texturing; so i can texture the whole thing in 3D and come back and tweak the UVs afterwards if i've mucked something up before exporting the maps. These exported maps go back into Maya, and i just tinker in photoshop until they're right. Then Unity and KSP.

Maya is extremely expensive (I need to learn Blender before my trial runs out) and Zbrush is unintuitive and intimidating (and full of bugs), so I don't think my workflow is for everyone. Blender is free and would provide exactly the same functionality Maya does, and Photoshop has GIMP, but Zbrush is the tricky one. It doesn't really have any cheap\free alternatives, so you might have to throw in a dedicated UV unwrapping program into the mix, and do all the texturework in GIMP. Headus is probably the best bet for that.

Feel free to flick me a PM if you're having trouble, just keep in mind there is only so much I can do without my PC, and US will take top priority once I get it back. I was a tutor once at university, if that counts for anything

Removing the regular KAS box also causes the phenomenon.

-Duxwing

Ah, might be KAS then. Try removing our mod completely and see if it persists. If it does, hit up Majiir or the other devs on the KAS thread about the bug.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Daishi

[SergeantBlueforce]

I have a question regarding the resources added by this plugin.

Are they for a life support plugin, or are they something entirely for this plugin?

[Paul Kingtiger]

...so you might have to throw in a dedicated UV unwrapping program into the mix...

You can unwrap in blender, but I've no idea how the functionality compares to other packages. It takes a bit of time and effort to do well, but I guess this is true of any system.

- - - Updated - - -

I have a question regarding the resources added by this plugin.

Are they for a life support plugin, or are they something entirely for this plugin?

If you're just using the core pack then the resources are just for Universal Storage. If you download one of the life support mods then the resources will also be used for that mod.

[Duxwing]

Ah, might be KAS then. Try removing our mod completely and see if it persists. If it does, hit up Majiir or the other devs on the KAS thread about the bug.

Thanks.

-Duxwing

[Rayder]

I've noticed a few times that tank capacity, consumption etc have all been referenced as Litres. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to use grams and kilograms? Liters is a measurement of volume, which would indicate the tank's physical size.

Reason I say this is because when dealing with water, you can't really compress the water in a tank. So the size of the tank pretty much determines how much water you can store in it. Food is in the same boat here, but for different reasons (obviously). The same is not true for Oxygen, however.

You can have the same volume tank, and increase the pressure to store a higher quantity of gas. This is also true for the other gases in Life Support (H2, CO2 and CH4). The other reason is that to properly calculate the conversion rates in the Electrolyser, Sabatier and Purifier you need to use the resource's mass.

Take for example, a 1 Liter tank. At 14.69 psi and 0°C you can store 1.3g of oxygen. Take the same tank, but pressurize it up to 300psi at 0°C and you can now store 29.1g of Oxygen. The same tank filled with water will always hold 1 Liter.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Rayder

[OOZ662]

If you have a look at the dev's blog, you'll see that the system is balanced to put realistic masses into the volume of the tanks at realistic pressures.

[RedAV8R]

I've noticed a few times that tank capacity, consumption etc have all been referenced as Litres. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to use grams and kilograms? Liters is a measurement of volume, which would indicate the tank's physical size.

Reason I say this is because when dealing with water, you can't really compress the water in a tank. So the size of the tank pretty much determines how much water you can store in it. Food is in the same boat here, but for different reasons (obviously). The same is not true for Oxygen, however.

You can have the same volume tank, and increase the pressure to store a higher quantity of gas. This is also true for the other gases in Life Support (H2, CO2 and CH4). The other reason is that to properly calculate the conversion rates in the Electrolyser, Sabatier and Purifier you need to use the resource's mass.

Take for example, a 1 Liter tank. At 14.69 psi and 0°C you can store 1.3g of oxygen. Take the same tank, but pressurize it up to 300psi at 0°C and you can now store 29.1g of Oxygen. The same tank filled with water will always hold 1 Liter.

Well see, no. Stock KSP gives resources a density which basically makes 1unit = 5L, kind of an odd ratio, RealFuels changes that to 1unit = 1L. RealFuels also has a built in feature that essentially models pressurization. Say having a 10L tank, but pressurized to 3600psi, would mount to having about 245L all squeezed into 1L. So there is a variable that one would set to 245, and bam, that 10L tank, can handle 2450L of a resource. If I'm not mistake US without RealFuels actually also makes resources based on a 1unit = 1L density, just doesn't model pressurization...

[OOZ662]

If I'm not mistake US without RealFuels actually also makes resources based on a 1unit = 1L density, just doesn't model pressurization...

Here's the details...

[Paul Kingtiger]

The figures in that dev blog are a little out of date as they use pressurized gas (based on real world medical storage and Welding supplies). US currently used liquefied gasses so the capacity is much higher. For example, O2 can be liquefied down to store 798 times as much as a gas at STP rather than 85 times as a compressed gas.

But the mechanics in the dev blog are sound, US does take into account storing gases compressed in a liquid state. That's why the O2 block stores 46 thousand liters and the identical water block holds 57.

One of my tasks in the next couple of weeks to to public all my research so that other people can use and review my numbers.

[Starwaster]

I've noticed a few times that tank capacity, consumption etc have all been referenced as Litres. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to use grams and kilograms? Liters is a measurement of volume, which would indicate the tank's physical size.

You've been given some. good information as answers but I'd like to expand on RedAV8R's answer just a bit.

You cant know what a tank's capacity is by mass alone, you HAVE to know both volume and density for exactly the reasons you cited, especially with mods like Modular Fuels. How can a tank's maximum capacity be described using mass alone when that same tank can be configured for liquid water, liquid (H2, O2, CH4, etc), compressed/non-compressed gaseous (O2, CO2, etc)?

And sometimes you have to start with volume because you're looking at some parts pack storage tank and you have to work out its storage by starting with its physical dimensions and you end up with volume. Then let the game code (both stock and modded) worry about mass when and where it needs to. (and in the case of Modular Fuels, both volume and mass are reported to you)

[TurielD]

SpacedInvader for what it's worth I really like the 1 unit = 1 day from TACLS, and have so far adapted the EVA-X and a few other parts to use this system just like Rayder. I know it does have some issues with low usage amounts, though it seems to be fine when the ship isn't the focus. I'd suggest just giving it a try with that for now and if the usage rates don't seem to be working right then you'll know.

I would very much appreciate TAC components

Aside from that, a person niggle: Why is the Octocore so very heavy? 10x as much as the quadcore, but with only 2x the functionality? I'd say 0.2 would be reasonable, surely? Same goes for the safety decouplers.

[Paul Kingtiger]

Aside from that, a person niggle: Why is the Octocore so very heavy? 10x as much as the quadcore, but with only 2x the functionality? I'd say 0.2 would be reasonable, surely? Same goes for the safety decouplers.

It's much bigger than the quad decoupler and stronger to form part of the larger stack. If anything the Quadcore is a little light and I'll probably push it up a bit closer to 1.0 release.