Kassandra (interplanetary compact ship) v3.01, gravity turn? automatic once again!

[H2O.]

[quote name='Legendary Emu']1 meter crew pod as a lander[/QUOTE]

Thanks,

Well it is like 1 ton less, so it is very very interesting. Compared to the previous version, this lander has 750 m/s [I]more[/I] delta-v.

[quote name='Kevin Kyle']I did forget to put the brake on once before I released the rover[/QUOTE]

It happens to me all the time! I'll see what I can do, although it is a very funny misadventure. Edited November 26, 2015 by H2O.

[KingPhantom]

awesome!

has this lander cutes now? :D

[H2O.]

Still no chutes!

Really, the TWR is way higher on the lander, chutes are dead wheight for almost all the trip and pretty useless if you don't go to Duna. And going to Jool is now way easier!

[Kevin Kyle]

Finally got time to run this mission. Either the auto gravity turn didnt work for me or I didnt execute it right. I might try it some more later as far as the launch goes. It was a fairly vertical launch profile. Maybe thats what you intended.

What I did was encourage it to start turning gently towards 90 after I reached 60 m/s until the nose was over about 10 degrees off vertical. Then I turned on SAS and set it to follow prograde. Thats pretty much my normal launch profile these days. The rest of the launch I did as noted in the manual. That made it so the second stage got me to just shy of making orbit, it plunged back to the surface. I finished orbit insertion with the transfer stage, no problem. Executed everything else just as noted in the users manual for the most part. Went pretty smoothly and the fuel and electric was generous. Easy using that mono though, save that for docking.

The things I did do different were. I didnt deploy the radiators until after I had done my ejection burn to Duna, didnt notice I guess but the heat was ok on a single burn without them. I recommend using them though. lol

Also, I deployed the command ships solar panels fairly early on in the flight. Only thing I had a problem with was that I couldnt collect the Goo container results and reset until after I dropped the rover.

I went through all the motions and tried everything. Flight went just fine, first non parachute landing on Duna for me, easy as pie. I will work on that launch profile too, Im sure I can do better than I did. Im bet you can go to many places with this ship. Great build man, thanks so much for your efforts.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Kevin Kyle

[H2O.]

Thank you for your thorough testing Kevin Kyle!

Alright, so the auto gravity turn : the procedure is to throttle up and to press space. You should not have to do anything else before 20000 meters. If everything goes acording to plan, the ship will slowly turn to the 90° direction. SAS is activated at 20000 meters, not before. No steering is required (you should not turn manually the ship at all). If it doesn't work like that tell me so I can start investigate.

The mono is just for docking yes! Mono is the most ineficient form of propulsion and the TWR of the ship is pretty low, so nukes are good even for small manoeuvres.

The radiators are a plus, I strongly encourage to deploy them, but an ejection burn is doable even without them.

Your problem with the Goo is weird. Did you use a scientist ?

A big thank you for your review, that is heart-warming!

[Kevin Kyle]

Yep, took one of each so ya, the scientist could not get the Goo, I tried timing jumping and hitting the right mouse button. lol It takes little to amuse me! I bet a small ladder would resolve that, Of course, I collected it after I dropped the rover, In hindsight, I maybe could have lowered a landing leg to get it probably at some risk. F5 first of course.

No, the gravity turn didnt work for me. It was a very vertical profile. Im sure that isnt what you had in mind. Now I have to say this is a modded build, 1.05 of course. I dont think I have any mods that modify the atmo or engines or weight in any way that I am aware of. Im considering making an all stock build and trying again along with the anomaly surveyor contract pack to check an issue with it as well. I need a stock build for testing things I think. Probably wont be tonight though. Maybe tomorrow night

I actually used the lander to get within docking range, was an easy way to get close and stable before I actually docked.

So let me get a stock build going and I will try that launch profile again. Could be a mod I have caused that, l Ide like to be sure first.

Might want to mention the radiators in the user guide and I caution anyone that opens the command module's solar panels early for 2 reasons, If you were to attempt an atmo slow down at Duna they would be lost and of course, dont want to crash into them before they are needed and destroy one of them.

Thanks for a great ship, it was a pleasure to test this one.I kind of like testing anyway.

[H2O.]

Yes, try an unmodded install, see if it works better.

I've modified the manual with your feedback. Regarding the Goo, I don't see an obvious solution but I'll see what I can do.

Thanks again!

[Kevin Kyle]

OK, all stock build, gravity turn works just as stated in the user's manual. The only issue I had on launch was that I cant wait for the sepratrons to burn out. If I do, the ship flips over backwards. Starting the next stage about halfway through the sepratrons burn works fine though. I achieved orbit, separated the stages and did the cleanup burn for the second stage and it fell back to the ocean. So it works like it should.

Now I am wondering what mod I have that is changing stuff, that mod has to go.

[H2O.]

Did you hit the "follow prograde" button right after SAS is activated? I've redone the launch sequence and I have the same behaviour that you describe when I don't switch to "follow prograde" mode. But everything is fine when I "follow prograde".

Regarding the mods, you probably have one that change the weight of some parts. This auto-gravity turn is incredibly sensitive and a bit tedious to get right .

Edited December 15, 2015 by H2O.

[Kevin Kyle]

Ya, that was it. Note to self, should not fly until after the first cup of coffee. Nice to know it can make orbit without steering or even using SAS or RCS, not many ships can do that. None that I know of except this one.

Works with stockbugfixes and stockplus mods

Edited December 15, 2015 by Kevin Kyle

[H2O.]

Thank you so much for your imput.

I was rather proud the first time it worked on my computer. I was like "Physic, b**ch!".

[Kevin Kyle]

Your welcome and thank you for all your effort. Its an awesome flying ship, I will strive to make mine fly like that from now on. It also showed me that my normal launch profile isnt as efficient as it could be. I bet you spent some time making it to fly like that. Great job man, I would be proud too.

[H2O.]

According to KER, the rocket has 3318 m/s of delta/V (stage 1 + stage 2). Once the circularisation burn is completed, it has 245 m/s left. So it means that this rather efficient trajectory cost 3073 m/s. It is a good estimate of what a rocket need to go to orbit.

Yes, it was quite a challenge (and a very time consuming one), although it was very rewarding in the end. I strongly suggest anyone to try to do a rocket with an automated gravity turn, you will learn a lot about TWR, the atmosphere and how/when staging should occur. Beware : KER is mandatory.

Edited December 16, 2015 by H2O.

[zenmaster]

it doesn't have enough power to take off. what am i doing wrong

[H2O.]

Did you throttle up before launching ?

[Kevin Kyle]

Yep, just follow the user manual exactly as it says, works every single time. Ive tested it many times recently. I caution you that some mods, not sure which exactly, will cause it to not work properly. On a mostly stock build with stock parts and atmosphere that it works perfectly.

I do wish they would change the stock throttle position to full throttle. There is no need to set it halfway at launch. NO ONE launches that way. I hope someone from Squad see's this and makes the appropriate change. Its long long overdue!

[tab]

only 30 units of monos make docking rather difficult for a noob like me. i have to make many attempts before do it correctly.

need practice

anyway, as i said before, amazing ship.

[H2O.]

6 hours ago, tab said:

only 30 units of monos make docking rather difficult

Hey, that is the game !

Well, I agree, for a newbie, it is a bit tricky, but if you fly this ship you should be already pretty familiar with docking. Use regular fuel to get close and to cancel relative velocity, and use monopropellant only for the last 100 meters.
Monoprop is so heavy that you should really put the bare requirement on your ship, not a unit more: on my personnal version of the ship, I don't put monoprop at all and no RCS thrusters either

Thank you for your review !

[tab]

6 hours ago, H2O. said:

Hey, that is the game !

Well, I agree, for a newbie, it is a bit tricky,

just done a mission on duna and return using only 13 units of monoprop!

[H2O.]

8 hours ago, tab said:

only 13 units of monoprop!

Nice ! Good training is key to maintain the weight of a ship down.

How was the auto-gravity turn ? Did it worked for you ? And the rover ? Did you had enough juice with the fuel cell ?

[tab]

auto-gravity turn works perfectly.

i havent use rover too much cause i already unlock all the tech-tree, anyway it seems work good,

[Majorjim!]

Hey man.

 I think this is a kind of perfect craft. it seems so simple yet I can see the hours of practice that allowed you to put something like this together.

 One thing that seems odd is why ditch the transfer stage if it has fuel left. Why not get rid of the ion stage and re use the transfer stage for the return trip? Is there not enough fuel?

[H2O.]

6 minutes ago, Majorjim said:

Why not get rid of the ion stage and re use the transfer stage for the return trip? Is there not enough fuel?

Hmm, not sure what stage you are referring to. The nuclear one ? Or the lander one ?

Thanks for your comment btw, really heartwarming, especially coming from such a builder as you. Can I suggest you give it a go for a launch to LKO ? The auto-gravity turn is quite something and I would love to have feedback from you.

edit : stock only, some mods seems to interfer with parts weight and makes things go, well... not very well

Edited January 9, 2016 by H2O.

[Majorjim!]

1 hour ago, H2O. said:

Hmm, not sure what stage you are referring to. The nuclear one ? Or the lander one ?

Thanks for your comment btw, really heartwarming, especially coming from such a builder as you. Can I suggest you give it a go for a launch to LKO ? The auto-gravity turn is quite something and I would love to have feedback from you.

edit : stock only, some mods seems to interfer with parts weight and makes things go, well... not very well

Sure thing mate, and thank you for the kind words. I only use editor and visual mods so I forsee no issues there.

 I will report back soon.

[Majorjim!]

Ok so I took it to Duna. The auto turn was fantastic and everything worked as advertised.

 I am in a parking orbit of 64x64. You need to change the instructions as it mentions aerobraking, this cannot be done now without a shield. Good thing too because the solar panels where changed recently and cannot be retracted.

My transfer burn was quite good I still have half my fuel left for the nukes. And if you allowed the transfer stage to be re-docked to the crew pod you can get rid of the ion stage. There is more than enough fuel to get there and back. Also, you need to add chutes to the lander. I know it is cool to do a powered descent, which you can still do after chutes. It would allow the lander to be smaller, and you can add more 'toys' for the surface crew.

 I am mightily impressed with this. It is indeed a perfect build. It does not require any of the things I suggest, apart from the instructions. Great job man!

If i was doing it I would add a shield on the nose, widen the fairing, and allow for aerobraking. It can save a fair bit of fuel and you could remove a lot of the ablator to save weight again.

How did you engineer the auto ascent?