[0.24.x] Stock ReBalance v1.4 | 11/09/14

[Random Tank]

Okay, but as this mod tends to explicitly list parts by name, and is focused on the stock parts, I'd be pretty surprised if it interacted with LLL much at all. In fact, reading the source of this, I'd be shocked. Here's a link to what I was thinking of in the LLL thread - Lack Luster Labs, pg 188, maybe the LLL antennae lost their ModuleDataTransmitter in the latest update?

Super Weird! I hadn't updated to v12 of LLL yet (because I didn't know about it), I was still on 10.7.3; I've updated now, and they're fixed. The update for LLL was the same day as I added this pack; that and the fact this mod mucks around with the antennae just made me suspicious.

Answer me this though: How can not updating to the latest version break parts? None of the files have changed, there is no auto updater that could change anything, and there is no KSP update that could break parts... Unless its something to do with module manager? (I still don't know what it actually does, just that I need it :3)

Thanks for the help! (and sorry for hijacking the thread a bit there)

[stupid_chris]

Super Weird! I hadn't updated to v12 of LLL yet (because I didn't know about it), I was still on 10.7.3; I've updated now, and they're fixed. The update for LLL was the same day as I added this pack; that and the fact this mod mucks around with the antennae just made me suspicious.

Answer me this though: How can not updating to the latest version break parts? None of the files have changed, there is no auto updater that could change anything, and there is no KSP update that could break parts... Unless its something to do with module manager? (I still don't know what it actually does, just that I need it :3)

Thanks for the help! (and sorry for hijacking the thread a bit there)

It could simply be KSP version change.

[ArcFurnace]

There's a typo in the adjustments to the RCS. It's listed as setting "thrustPower = 2"; it should be "thrusterPower = 2".

[Duxwing]

My Kerbal Engineer Redux build and flight readouts are wrong, indicating a thrust-to-weight ratio of over 1.3 whilst the rocket falls at full thrust.

OS: Windows 7

KSP: 0.23.5

Mods:

• Toolbar
  
• Atmospheric Sound Enhancement
  
• City Lights and Clouds
  
• Chatterer
  
• Deadly Re-Entry
  
• Kerbal Engineer Redux
  
• Environmental Visual Enhancements
  
• Ferram Aerospace Research
  
• Kethane
  
• Final Frontier
  
• Precise Node
  
• Procedural Parts
  
• RCS Sounds
  
• Real Chute
  
• Select Root
  
• Ship Manifest
  
• Stock Rebalance
  
• Texture Replacer
  
• TAC Life Support
  
• Kerbal Alarm Clock
  
• Module Manager 1.5.7
  

-Duxwing

[stupid_chris]

There's a typo in the adjustments to the RCS. It's listed as setting "thrustPower = 2"; it should be "thrusterPower = 2".

Yeah I'm aware

My Kerbal Engineer Redux build and flight readouts are wrong, indicating a thrust-to-weight ratio of over 1.3 whilst the rocket falls at full thrust.

OS: Windows 7

KSP: 0.23.5

Mods:

-snip-

Duxwing

This isn't quite the KER thread :/

[Duxwing]

This isn't quite the KER thread :/

I thought you could help because you changed the values.

-Duxwing

[stupid_chris]

I thought you could help because you changed the values.

-Duxwing

If it broke anything, it surely isn't due to some config editing, since this is about all this is It could be an issue between KER and MM, can't really tell, or maybe you had something blocking your thrust? :/

[Duxwing]

If it broke anything, it surely isn't due to some config editing, since this is about all this is It could be an issue between KER and MM, can't really tell, or maybe you had something blocking your thrust? :/

Nothing was blocking my thrust.

-Duxwing

[Amaroq]

Which KER do you have? Make sure you have Padishar's build from the "Add-on Development" thread, not the main download from the "Add-on Releases and Project Showcase" thread.

[m4v]

My Kerbal Engineer Redux build and flight readouts are wrong, indicating a thrust-to-weight ratio of over 1.3 whilst the rocket falls at full thrust.

-Duxwing

Calculate the TWR by hand and check if KER's readout is accurate, shouldn't be too hard. If is accurate, then there's something wrong going on with your rocket at the launchpad, if is not accurate then there's a bug in KER.

Either way this mod can't be related to your issue, did you try removing it?

[Voidi]

Ok I have some proposals, doesn't know if this fit in your view of the mod

Ion-Engine:

I like the pre 0.23.5 variant, it wasn't much better then in reallife, but still playable.

The new variant is to strong, normaly they're used to propel very light probes.

Maybe ether revert totally to pre-0.23.5 version, or something in between.

I curently test some with Thrust 1 and ElectricCharge 12

RTG:

some pages before someone remarked that RTG produce to tiny amount of electricity.

Maybe for ion-engine, not anything else e. x. powering unmanned probes

But for a balanced Gameplay they're overpowered, because the produce energy no matter what.

I suggest, use a new Ressource Blutonium as Fuel.

//RTG
@PART[rtg]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleGenerator]
	{
		@mass = 0.15
		@isAlwaysActive = false
		activateGUIName = RTG on
		shutdownGUIName = RTG off
		requiresAllinputs = true
		INPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			name = Blutonium
			rate = 0.00002
		}
	}

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Blutonium
		amount = 3000
		maxAmount = 3000
	}
}

this runs for 1-2 years, until out of fuel I think

Edited May 2, 2014 by Voidi

[undercoveryankee]

Ok I have some proposals, doesn't know if this fit in your view of the mod

Ion-Engine:

I like the pre 0.23.5 variant, it wasn't much better then in reallife, but still playable.

The new variant is to strong, normaly they're used to propel very light probes.

Maybe ether revert totally to pre-0.23.5 version, or something in between.

I curently test some with Thrust 1 and ElectricCharge 12

RTG:

some pages before someone remarked that RTG produce to tiny amount of electricity.

Maybe, for ion-engine not anything else, powering unmanned probes

But for a balanced Gameplay they're overpowered, because the produce energy no matter what.

I suggest, use a new Ressource Blutonium as Fuel.

//RTG
@PART[rtg]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleGenerator]
	{
		@mass = 0.15
		@isAlwaysActive = false
		activateGUIName = RTG on
		shutdownGUIName = RTG off
		requiresAllinputs = true
		INPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			name = Blutonium
			rate = 0.00002
		}
	}

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Blutonium
		amount = 3000
		maxAmount = 3000
	}
}

this runs for 1-2 years, until out of fuel I think

A realistic RTG would require a plugin to handle the decrease in available power as fuel decays and to calculate the amount of fuel used while the vessel was inactive. If anyone knows of a stable realistic-RTG plugin, I would run it.

An RTG that:

• can be switched off and stop using fuel,
  
• produces constant power until it dies completely, and
  
• gets lighter as it runs if you let Blutonium have mass
  

doesn't strike me as enough of an advantage over the stock RTG to be included.

[Voidi]

A realistic RTG would require a plugin to handle the decrease in available power as fuel decays and to calculate the amount of fuel used while the vessel was inactive. If anyone knows of a stable realistic-RTG plugin, I would run it.

how does it behave if i switch the vessel? does the generator does completely shutoff?

[*]gets lighter as it runs if you let Blutonium have mass

could change the fuel to massless and increase dry mass

[m4v]

RTG:

some pages before someone remarked that RTG produce to tiny amount of electricity.

Maybe for ion-engine, not anything else e. x. powering unmanned probes

But for a balanced Gameplay they're overpowered, because the produce energy no matter what.

I suggest, use a new Ressource Blutonium as Fuel.

//RTG
@PART[rtg]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleGenerator]
	{
		@mass = 0.15
		@isAlwaysActive = false
		activateGUIName = RTG on
		shutdownGUIName = RTG off
		requiresAllinputs = true
		INPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			name = Blutonium
			rate = 0.00002
		}
	}

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Blutonium
		amount = 3000
		maxAmount = 3000
	}
}

this runs for 1-2 years, until out of fuel I think

I like the concept, but one problem is that resource consumption isn't simulated for unloaded parts, so I don't think you can do what you want without a plugin.

[NathanKell]

Ion-Engine:

I like the pre 0.23.5 variant, it wasn't much better then in reallife

I wouldn't really call 1kN vs real life's average of a few dozen *milli*Newtons "not much better"....

[undercoveryankee]

how does it behave if i switch the vessel? does the generator does completely shutoff?

Unloaded vessels neither produce nor consume resources, so when you switch back you will have exactly what you had when you unloaded. Same amount of stored EC, same amount of fuel.

A good realistic-RTG plugin would do what TAC Life Support does: Keep track of the last time the vessel was loaded and, on subsequent load, subtract the fuel that would have been used if the unload hadn't intervened.

[Duxwing]

Which KER do you have? Make sure you have Padishar's build from the "Add-on Development" thread, not the main download from the "Add-on Releases and Project Showcase" thread.

I installed it without having read your post: now my lifters need 5,000 atmospheric delta-V.

Calculate the TWR by hand and check if KER's readout is accurate, shouldn't be too hard. If is accurate, then there's something wrong going on with your rocket at the launchpad, if is not accurate then there's a bug in KER.

Either way this mod can't be related to your issue, did you try removing it?

I'll try both tomorrow.

-Duxwing

[loppnessmonsta]

so i'm trying to customize this mod so that the structural adapters (not nose cones) function as batteries (at half the mass/power ratio of normal batteries) instead of fuel tanks. I went into the adapters cfg and changed it to this.

edit: snip for page size

it works, but now they have electricity AND fuel. I cannot figure out where the fuel is coming from. None of my other mods affect these parts, and the fuel capacity is the same as your original cfg. It's not listed in the part selection window (the electricity is) but shows up in the right click menu for the tank itself, both in the VAB and in the world.

edit: well i figured it out, but it's strange. it's because it was an existing craft. new instances of the parts work just fine. weird. whatever.

Edited May 5, 2014 by loppnessmonsta

[Amaroq]

Yes, that is expected behavior. A part on a craft in flight is "fixed", and does not retro-actively gain or lose attributes based on updated part configurations.

[Dodgey]

Has anyone had an issue with hot rockets? I just installed it along side this and I lost the fuel bars for the Ion engines that Chris added. No other issues that I can see but I thought I would bring it up.

[Voidi]

Has anyone had an issue with hot rockets? I just installed it along side this and I lost the fuel bars for the Ion engines that Chris added. No other issues that I can see but I thought I would bring it up.

HotRockets replace for all Engine parts the used PartModule, if i correct remember stupid_chris is working on that issue.

In the meantime it may help to rename the StockRebalance folder to 0StockRebalance or similar, because of alphanumeric ordering it's loaded before Hotrockets and can apply it's Tweaks.

After that HotRocket switches the used PartModules

[Rakaydos]

So when budgets roll around, how do we want to balance price?

I would suggest pricing by scale- a bunch of weaker engines added together cost about the same (perhaps a little more) as an equivilant larger engine.

[stupid_chris]

So when budgets roll around, how do we want to balance price?

I would suggest pricing by scale- a bunch of weaker engines added together cost about the same (perhaps a little more) as an equivilant larger engine.

I'll see when it does come around, it mostly depends on how the game mechanics work on that side.

[Aldmehr]

Changelog:

April 19th 2014
v1.3
-Toroidal/0.625m dry tank mass aligned with other tanks

The resulting adjustments seem to be:

Oscar-B Fuel Tank (miniFuelTank)
LF 5.735 -> 5.4
OX 7 -> 6.6

ROUND-8 Toroidal Fuel Tank (toroidalFuelTank)
LF 10 -> 10.8
OX 12.2 -> 13.2

Can you explain the math for these adjustments?

It seems to me the appropriate values to match the mass ratio of the other (non-NASA) tanks would be the following:

Oscar-B Fuel Tank
LF 10.8
OX 13.2

ROUND-8 Toroidal Fuel Tank
LF 18
OX 22

What am I missing?

[stupid_chris]

The resulting adjustments seem to be:

Oscar-B Fuel Tank (miniFuelTank)
LF 5.735 -> 5.4
OX 7 -> 6.6

ROUND-8 Toroidal Fuel Tank (toroidalFuelTank)
LF 10 -> 10.8
OX 12.2 -> 13.2

Can you explain the math for these adjustments?

It seems to me the appropriate values to match the mass ratio of the other (non-NASA) tanks would be the following:

Oscar-B Fuel Tank
LF 10.8
OX 13.2

ROUND-8 Toroidal Fuel Tank
LF 18
OX 22

What am I missing?

You rounded upwards, I rounded downwards