NASA LADEE Munor Mission challenge

[SRV Ron]

NASA's LADEE Lunar Mission Challenge;

Build a Minotaur V rocket and place its payload into low Mun orbit, under 20,000 meters.

Minotaur and LADEE payload systems are based upon low cost components and the use of surplus dated rocket technology. http://www.ask.com/wiki/Lunar_Atmosphere_and_Dust_Environment_Explorer?qsrc=3044

Mission Objectives;

A successful LADEE mission will be using off the shelf stock Kerbal technology from version 23.5. You are to build this rocket as light and as cheap as possible. As the lowest score will be declared the winner, your score will be based upon the total cost, and weight of the payload minus the amount of fuel and or mono propellant left once low Mun orbit has been achieved. (This is going to be tweaked in order to encourage fuel efficiency, but not at the expense of spamming fuel cans on the payload.) A bonus will be awarded for leaving no debris in space. In addition, you must have enough fuel or mono propellant left in order to crash LADEE into the far side of Mun on April 21, 2014.

Three photos should be enough to prove your concept;

1. Photo of the rocket in the VAB

2. Photo of the payload in low Mun or Minmus orbit.

3. Map mode showing orbital data, weight, and units of fuel left.

Bonus mission, use the same rocket and go for Minmus low orbit.

Required components;

1. The new S1 SRB-KD25K SRB. This booster very closely simulates the SRB component of the recycled first three stages of the Minotaur V launch vehicle. When properly tweaked, it will place the rest of your rocker into a high suborbital trajectory for a efficient orbital insertion.

Required payload items to simulate the LADEE instrumentation;

2. Commrotron 16 antenna

3. Double C Accelerometer

4. PresMat Barometer

5. Gravamax Gravity Detector

6. 2 Hot Thermometer

7. Solar panels and spare batteries. Use any type needed to maintain power throughout the entire mission. You do not want dead batteries when on the dark side of the moon or Kerbal.

You may use any other stock component to make up the rest of your rocket.

Originally, I did this mission using KW Rocketry and NovaPunch Mods. With 23.5 I was able to recreate it April 4th using all stock. Photos below.

While I will peek in to see what designs are flying, the real goal of this challenge is to have fun seeing how small and light you can go using the required components.

Lets see who is the best engineer comes crash day.

[mythic_fci]

Entry incoming!

Please post the final weight of your ship for comparison My new entry weighs less than a ton!

Edited April 6, 2014 by FCISuperGuy

[mythic_fci]

First Entry!

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Cost of ship is (using in-game cost): OKTO2 (480)+SRB(800)+Communitron(150)+Gravity Detector(8800)+Thermometor(900)+Accelerometor(6000)+Barometer (3300)+2x Solar Panels(760)+2x Radial RCS Tanks(800)+1m to 0.5m Adaptor(150)+FLT200 Fuel Tank(225)+487S Engine(300)-Remaining RCS (80)=17 345

Could you please change the rules to add a little something about final weight in the score/cost? I got a final tonnage of 0.54 tons...

Edited April 6, 2014 by FCISuperGuy

[SRV Ron]

Could you please change the rules to add a little something about final weight in the score/cost? I got a final tonnage of 0.54 tons...

My probe did weigh more then yours due to the use of two RCS cans where one was not needed. Still working on how it will score. Since everyone has to have the required booster and scientific instruments, everyone can remove their cost from the score as that remains fixed. I am still working on a multiplier for the final orbital weight and bonus for remaining fuel so its weight doesn't penalize overall score. Score will be based upon cost of all other parts minus fuel units left times weight of probe in orbit. I don't want to penalize fuel left as excess weight since it is required for deorbiting later on. I'm open for suggestion on how to remove its weight from the overall score.

Just supply the cost, fuel units left, and weight of the probe for now.

BTW, nice design. I also ran out of fuel by design and stage to use RCS for final orbit. May experiment with ant engines and Oscar B in place of RCS.

[SRV Ron]

An update on the challenge, My LADEE stage with all instrumentation, solar panels, extra battery, fuel can, and engine, weighs in at 0.26 tons. It currently is in under 20,000 mun orbit. Due to being half the weight of the first test launch, the second stage had sufficient fuel to place the LADEE into the required orbit, so I was able to place it into a sub orbit, return the LADEE to its proper orbit with its own engine, and achieve the removal of the second stage debris by crashing it into Mun.

I will withhold design pictures at this time so as not to influence challenge designs. Also the reason for removal of the resource from the posted pic which proves the concept for orbit and debris removal.

There may not be much room left to beat the mass placed in Mun orbit, but, there is certainly room for cutting cost.

Edited April 7, 2014 by SRV Ron

[Woopert]

Oh, why does it have to be Sunday! I hope to do this when I have time.

[SRV Ron]

Oh, why does it have to be Sunday! I hope to do this when I have time.

You have until April 21. That is the day NASA sends the real one crashing into the Moon. Plenty of time to design something for the mission.

[Woopert]

Can I use the other SRB parts? I think I might be able to get something cool with them.

[SRV Ron]

Can I use the other SRB parts? I think I might be able to get something cool with them.

They can be used, but in the spirit of the Minotaur 5, only on top of the mandated first stage SRB booster. No mounting using radical decouplers in this challenge. The S1 SRB-KD25K has to lift everything until it has consumed all of its fuel. In the interest of cutting cost, I see no reason for not using an RT-10, sepratron 1, or even a BACC if you can get enough control to steer the non vectoring SRBs to get into a Mun insertion.

Still working out the scoring. I am looking at removing the mass of unused fuel, oxidizer, and, or Monoprop from the satellite in order to give a lower overall score as opposed to having no fuel left. After all, your LADEE has to be capable of being deorbited into Mun.

Edit, Quick testing, The S1 SRB-KD25K can easily lift an RT-10 or even a heavier BACC with ease as part of its upper stages. The real Minotaur 5 uses SRBs in its first three stages represented by the S1 SRB-KD25K. You are free to experiment with additional SRBs on top.

Edited April 8, 2014 by SRV Ron

[Woopert]

They can be used, but in the spirit of the Minotaur 5, only on top of the mandated first stage SRB booster. No mounting using radical decouplers in this challenge. The S1 SRB-KD25K has to lift everything until it has consumed all of its fuel. In the interest of cutting cost, I see no reason for not using an RT-10, sepratron 1, or even a BACC if you can get enough control to steer the non vectoring SRBs to get into a Mun insertion.

Still working out the scoring. I am looking at removing the mass of unused fuel, oxidizer, and, or Monoprop from the satellite in order to give a lower overall score as opposed to having no fuel left. After all, your LADEE has to be capable of being deorbited into Mun.

Edit, Quick testing, The S1 SRB-KD25K can easily lift an RT-10 or even a heavier BACC with ease as part of its upper stages. The real Minotaur 5 uses SRBs in its first three stages represented by the S1 SRB-KD25K. You are free to experiment with additional SRBs on top.

I was thinking about using the Rockomax BACC booster (the big white one), since it's a bit shorter -- and the Minotaur V is a sort of short-ish rocket, at least compared to the new SRB.

[RuBisCO]

I sort of did this back right after it launched, with a 5 stage solid rocket no less. I think I did it way back in version 0.21 or 0.22.

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[SRV Ron]

I sort of did this back right after it launched, with a 5 stage solid rocket no less. I think I did it way back in version 0.21 or 0.22.

http://imgur.com/a/fzjwy

I did something similar with the mods before tweakable thrust. Now that we have the stock equivalent and tweakable thrust, give it a try with the stock only restriction.

Edit, Keep in mind the cost factor which means that the LADEE design in this challenge doesn't have to look like the real thing.

Edited April 8, 2014 by SRV Ron

[SRV Ron]

I was thinking about using the Rockomax BACC booster (the big white one), since it's a bit shorter -- and the Minotaur V is a sort of short-ish rocket, at least compared to the new SRB.

There is still the restriction that the S1 SRB-KD25K has to be the first stage. However, I tested using a BACC in the second stage just to see if it was possible to get my LADEE into Mun orbit. With tweaking of the thrust, one could get a much better flight then I got with the quick test. Still, I was able to get to the required Mun orbit with fuel left for deorbiting. So, there is lots of room to experiment to find the lowest cost design. I'll test a RT-10 later

[BagelRabbit]

Here's a quick look at my design. It is the most bare-bones contraption that has yet been posted, containing a single battery and two fins on the SRB stage. And yet, it has more than enough Delta-V to soft-land on the Mun, or travel to Minmus from the Mun's orbit. Once in Minmus's orbit, the craft weighed 0.1 tons.

Discounting all of the parts that are considered "Required," the rocket costs $3540.

Oh, and I crashed the second stage into the Mun, so no orbital debris!

Edited April 9, 2014 by UpsilonAerospace

[SRV Ron]

I think this is the new first-place post.

Just looking at weight, fuel left, and bare bone design, you have first at present. There is still room to trim some cost. Congratulations on the Minmus encounter.

It beats my test flight at present.

[BagelRabbit]

Just looking at weight, fuel left, and bare bone design, you have first at present. There is still room to trim some cost.

Cost is now included in the post. I would recommend counting the cost as that of all parts aside from the ones that are required, such as the booster and science equipment. It simplifies things a bit, that way.

Do I need to get into a sub-20x20km Minmus orbit?

[SRV Ron]

Cost is now included in the post. I would recommend counting the cost as that of all parts aside from the ones that are required, such as the booster and science equipment. It simplifies things a bit, that way.

Do I need to get into a sub-20x20km Minmus orbit?

Exactly. One does not count the cost of the required equipment as this is the same for everybody. You have fuel enough for a under 20,000 meter minmus and deorbit. You don't need to drop it down.

My launch pad testing indicates 0.11 tons probe weight using cheapest cost to 0.10 tons for lightest design with all fuel gone. The LADEE is so light that the engine in use can lift it off from Kerbal. Fuel left over is a plus in this mission. Testing on Mun mission is placing the LADEE in orbit with a good reserve of fuel in the second stage.

Will post more tomorrow.

Keep up the research. I have to recalculate to confirm that my test design has only $3,060 in added parts.

[ThisIsTurtle]

Total cost

$800 (SRB) + $200 (jr docking port) + $300 (48-7S engine) + $110 (FL-T100 fuel tank) + $300 (stayputnik probe body) + $80 (battery) + $8800 (gravity detector) + $6000 (accelerometer) + $3300 (barometer) + $900 (thermometer) + $150 (atenna)

= $20940

Non-required parts

$200 (jr docking port) + $300 (48-7S engine) + $110 (FL-T100 fuel tank) + $300 (stayputnik probe body)

= $910

Can reach Minmus and has plenty of fuel left once in orbit.

Not sure if it is the lightest design but it is the cheapest.

First place?

In VAB

On Launch Pad

SRB returns to Kerbin leaving no debris

Mun Encounter

Munar Orbit

Minmus Encounter

Minmus Orbit

Screenshot from Munar orbit

I was actually able to land on and return from the Mun with this design

[Edit 4/9/14: cost of non-required parts was $800 more than it should have been. I can't math]

Edited April 9, 2014 by ThisIsTurtle

[SRV Ron]

ThisIsTurtle. Cheapest so far, no doubt. Only criticism is your probe, due to having the larger tank and engine attached, is four times the weight of the others. That much difference, unfortunately, works against you in scoring. Debris should crash into Mun or Minmus which is usually the second stage. Eliminating the SAS on the booster, to save cost, results in being unable to perform a gravity turn, so launch time to get to Mun is critical. Fortunately, there is enough delta V in the design to overcome the inefficiency in that launch as well as stability to fly which is what is essentially is having control at all during the SRB stage. Never though of using a docking port to cut cost. Novel idea.

All the top designs are proving they have sufficient fuel for a return to Kerbal.

Keep at it with testing and tweaking.

[mythic_fci]

Eliminating the SAS on the booster, to save cost, results in being unable to perform a gravity turn, so launch time to get to Mun is critical.

Even though this is conventional, take a look at my post again.

It uses fins attached to the booster =D No need for SAS, but still can do a gravity turn.

[SRV Ron]

Even though this is conventional, take a look at my post again.

It uses fins attached to the booster =D No need for SAS, but still can do a gravity turn.

Was not referring to a design with fins which one can use to steer the booster into a gravity turn in place of the reaction wheel.

Straight up is not efficient. But as long as one can pull it off, there is sufficient DeltaV and stability in the design to do so, it can still get the job done.

[ThisIsTurtle]

That much difference, unfortunately, works against you in scoring.

Does adding 0.29 tons cost me more points than saving $2630?

How much does each ton of mass count against my score?

It would help to optimize my design if I knew how much extra it is worth spend to reduce weight.

Edited April 9, 2014 by ThisIsTurtle

[ThisIsTurtle]

(I screwed up my math on my last design's post. The price should have been $910, not $1710.)

Design #2

The center of mass slightly off center to make the first stage do an automatic gravity turn.

There are seperatrons on the 2nd stage and probe body so they can be deorbited leaving no debris.

Still Minmus capable.

Mass in orbit

0.07 t

Price of non-required parts

$400 (jr docking port x2) + $300 (48-7S engine) + $110 (FL-T100 fuel tank) + $300 (stayputnik probe body) + $200 (seperatron x2)

= $1310

In VAB

Auto gravity turn

Mun encounter

2nd stage deorbited

Munar orbit

Minmus orbit

Do I get first place now?

Edited April 9, 2014 by ThisIsTurtle

[SRV Ron]

Does adding 0.29 tons cost me more points than saving $2630?

How much does each ton of mass count against my score?

It would help to optimize my design if I knew how much extra it is worth spend to reduce weight.

Recalculated your LADEE with no fuel and no clampatron Jr. (TR2V decoupler of the same cost is 0.025 tons lighter.) It comes in at 0.21 tons. Depending how cost figures in and a fuel left bonus, you could come very close to the 0.11 and 0.10 ton designs.

The real goal is watching how participants are approaching the challenge. While hard to fly during the SRB stage, you have a design with the fewest parts and therefore also the lowest cost. That's going to put you in the same league as the probes half the weight of yours.

One example of approaching a problem from a different perspective, your LADEE design using an FL T-400 fuel can do the mission SSTM.

Edited April 9, 2014 by SRV Ron

[SRV Ron]

Do I get first place now?

At 0.07 tons It is the lightest. And, still can be deorbited.

Doesn't look like anyone can beat this design. The separtron approach allowed the removal of the second stage from orbit and retained the ability to deorbit the satellite as required.

Edit, Oops, With the stayputnik, instruments, and sepratron, weight comes in at 0.12.

I see what has happened on the weight, the Sepratron has had its fuel load cut to the bare amount needed for deorbit. Good job thinking out of the box for a solution to the challenge.

Edit 2. Verified the weight issue. And, there appears to be enough of a kick to deorbit into Mun. As you have probably guessed, I am testing designs using KSP in the background.

Unless someone can come up with a valid reason to challenge otherwise, looks like you have first place.

Edited April 10, 2014 by SRV Ron