Anyone else finally able to make to to Eve and back in 23.5?

[godemperorzack]

I've been trying this for a while, but with the launch of the new larger parts and improved joint stability, I was finally able to get my lander to Eve and back. Before the patch, I built a launcher made of tons of mainsails and big orange, but it just kept falling apart on the pad (no matter how many struts). After the patch, my launcher was actually stable through launch and ascension, but unfortunately it lacked the delta-v required for orbit. Instead of redesigning it, I constructed a new launcher with the new parts, and was finally able to get my lander to Eve. I know its a big lander, but when I built it, I didn't want to use aerospikes, just traditional bell rockets. I also wanted it to be capable of taking off at sea level and getting a mark 1 capsule to orbit. That being said, I'm happy I can cross this one off the list and move on to some new planets (I've only been to the mun!). Here are some pics taken over a couple attempts:

Sadly, I wasn't able to dock the lander back to my service module (only done docking twice before, so relatively inexperienced). I ran into power problems on the dark side of Eve, plus I designed the docking port locations poorly and solar panels kept getting in the way, so I just EVA it out of frustration.

Other than that, the only other issue I noticed was this weird problem where my Eve lander had some missing oxidizer (but not fuel) after I landed. One of the Rockomax 32 tanks was almost entirely depleted, but luckily I was able to rebalance the remain oxidizer, and since I happened to land at 500 meters, it was not an issue. But I'd be interested in knowing if this was a bug, or if someone knows why this happened.

Regardless, I'd like to know if anyone else has been able to get their massive landers to Eve, and if so, what challenges did you face?

[Pecan]

I haven't even attempted Eve yet. If you're for real, have only been to Mun before and not yet learnt to dock I find it hilariously cool that your next step was to Eve. Congratulations.

[Jodo42]

Agreed with the above poster. That's a quintessential Kerbal move. "OK, we've hit our first big milestone in exploring the universe. Let's go for the hardest mission possible next."

I just noticed this is your first post. Welcome to the forums! As the Eagles said, you can check out any time you like. But you can never leave.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Jodo42

[manskal]

Wow, for a person who has only done a flyby of Eve (and that in two versions ago) that really looks spectacular. Congrats! I think you can regard yourself as an expert now, according to the poll in General Discussion.

Still, no science? Jeb demands SCIENCE!

[godemperorzack]

I haven't even attempted Eve yet. If you're for real, have only been to Mun before and not yet learnt to dock I find it hilariously cool that your next step was to Eve. Congratulations.

Well, I have docked twice, once in kerbol orbit and once during a munar orbit rendezvous mission, but I usually just spend my time in ksp designing launch vehicles. As far as visiting planets, after I landed on the mun, figured I could just skip minmus and try an interplanetary mission. I picked Eve cause it was hard to take off from (I really like building launch vehicles!), but I didn't realize how difficult getting a 300 ton lander to Eve would be. Like I said, I couldn't do it before 23.5. Before then, all I had done was land a one-way rover Eve suicide mission. After the patch, its actually quite easy to launch huge payloads to LKO. For example, the rocket above gets 1200+ tons into orbit. Stuff is just SO much stabler now, plus the new engines are pretty... strong.

Wow, for a person who has only done a flyby of Eve (and that in two versions ago) that really looks spectacular. Congrats! I think you can regard yourself as an expert now, according to the poll in General Discussion.

Still, no science? Jeb demands SCIENCE!

Lol, I wouldn't say I'm an expert by a long shot! My trip to Eve and back was horribly inefficient, I bet the pros on this board could do it with half the fuel. Designing the Eve lander was kinda tough, cause it needs so much delta-v, TWR, and stability in that thick atmosphere. Pretty much had to use a multi-asparagus design. Building a launcher capable of doing a single launch Eve mission used to be the hardest (nearly impossible) part, but with the improved stability its actually pretty easy. Just look at how many struts you see on the launcher (designed post 23.5) vs. my payload (designed pre 23.5). Its an order of magnitude difference. The patch was so nice for stopping things from falling apart on the pad, I think it might even be a bit overboard.

I'm still curious if anyone knows the reason for that missing oxidizer? Has anyone ever come across a situation where oxidizer, but not an equivalent amount of fuel, was missing from your tanks?

[godemperorzack]

Agreed with the above poster. That's a quintessential Kerbal move. "OK, we've hit our first big milestone in exploring the universe. Let's go for the hardest mission possible next."

I just noticed this is your first post. Welcome to the forums! As the Eagles said, you can check out any time you like. But you can never leave.

Thank you for the welcome! I've been a long time lurker, since .18.

Yeah, you never can escape the game for long. I've definitely taken my breaks, but I always come back

[doggie015]

I haven't even managed a manned Duna return yet (Not even in sandbox but I did manage to do a 1-man (Testing a 3-man design) Ike return in Career mode!) so I think I am still a fair way off the Eve return... Good job!

Also: WELCOME to the forums!

[Red Iron Crown]

Manned return from Eve is a big accomplishment, even for veteran players. Good job.

[Moar Boosters]

Nice to see somebody doing Eve "properly". Using a capsule and landing at low altitude make the challenge much harder. Most people deprive themselves of this challenge by using command chairs or putting wheels on their lander so they can take off from a mountain.

This was my lander. It was preceded by 3 other designs which failed. It's got custom landing legs because the version I did this with was the one where the landing legs went wonky.

I'm not that great at docking, so the whole thing was sent up on top of a giant rocket.

[godemperorzack]

Nice to see somebody doing Eve "properly". Using a capsule and landing at low altitude make the challenge much harder. Most people deprive themselves of this challenge by using command chairs or putting wheels on their lander so they can take off from a mountain.

This was my lander. It was preceded by 3 other designs which failed. It's got custom landing legs because the version I did this with was the one where the landing legs went wonky.

I'm not that great at docking, so the whole thing was sent up on top of a giant rocket.

Completely agree. Those Eve return threads using command chairs and other exploits to get to orbit always seemed fake to me. I mean, if I was ascending from the surface to orbit, you sure as hell better believe that I'm doing it in a hardened capsule. I have to hand it to you for completing a sea level Eve mission before 23.5, that is quite an accomplishment and a very nice and efficient lander you have there.

[InterCity]

I've done the thing back in .21, but it wasn't a single craft. I launched a modified mun lander, and then a fuel truck. I landed the lander and the truck about 2 kms from each other (each with separate lifter) and then refuelled the lander on eve. Then i warped until next return window, and returned safely.

It was a challenge, though.

[wasmic]

Completely agree. Those Eve return threads using command chairs and other exploits to get to orbit always seemed fake to me. I mean, if I was ascending from the surface to orbit, you sure as hell better believe that I'm doing it in a hardened capsule. I have to hand it to you for completing a sea level Eve mission before 23.5, that is quite an accomplishment and a very nice and efficient lander you have there.

I think using command chairs to go to orbit on Eve is silly, but putting wheels on the ascender and driving to a mountaintop makes sense to me - it's the most efficient way of doing it, so that's probably what a real space program would do.

[FenrirWolf]

Yeah, I don't have any qualms with wheeling around to a higher liftoff point if you want to go that route. But the command chair thing always seemed kind of silly to me. I haven't gone to Eve yet myself, but when I do it's gonna be in a 3-man pod.

[Moar Boosters]

I think using command chairs to go to orbit on Eve is silly, but putting wheels on the ascender and driving to a mountaintop makes sense to me - it's the most efficient way of doing it, so that's probably what a real space program would do.

Sure it make sense, but my space program is based on strapping as many boosters together as humanly possible. My Kerbals are also terrible drivers, so there's no way I'd trust them to successfully drive up a mountain without any accidents.

[Pecan]

...my space program is based on strapping as many boosters together as humanly possible ... without any more accidents.

FIFY, lol. Pictures? [Mood is hard in text. Intended as a 'sounds like fun but I bet you have big explosions' comment]

[NecroBones]

LOL, man... I hear you about the lawn-chairs. I tried to resist using one, but since this is my first time to Eve, with a manned return (mission currently in progress), I just couldn't deny the extra 2 km/s dV I got by switching to it. Maybe for a subsequent mission I'll use a real pod, depending on how this experience goes.

[godemperorzack]

I think using command chairs to go to orbit on Eve is silly, but putting wheels on the ascender and driving to a mountaintop makes sense to me - it's the most efficient way of doing it, so that's probably what a real space program would do.

Yeah, a mobile launch platform makes sense and sounds like a pretty cool build actually. I just feel that command chairs are more appropriate for low speed, suborbital vehicles and landers. Even worse were the Kerbols hanging on to ladders. Better install a Gripflex 5000 in your ship if you want those boys coming home!

[Moar Boosters]

FIFY, lol. Pictures? [Mood is hard in text. Intended as a 'sounds like fun but I bet you have big explosions' comment]

My Kerbals treat space exploration in very much the same way the Japanese kamikaze pilots treat warfare. Dying in a gigantic explosion is an honorable way to perish, and will surely earn them a high standing in the afterlife. There were 18 Kerbals aboard this ship when this happened. The first 5 attempts also ended in disaster, but they were SO sure it'd be okay this time.

[maccollo]

I have a different idea....

Let's take of from Eve... IN RSS!

According to this chart this requires 27 km/s.

http://i.imgur.com/SqdzxzF.png

It should be possible, but it will require an absolutely enormous rocket to just get a Kerbal in a seat off that planet.

Edited April 13, 2014 by maccollo

[ScallopPotato]

I have a different idea....

Let's take of from Eve... IN RSS!

According to this chart this requires 27 km/s.

http://i.imgur.com/SqdzxzF.png

It should be possible, but it will require an absolutely enormous rocket to just get a Kerbal in a seat off that planet.

I believe in you, Maccollo.

Although I'm sure any real space program would use blimps to get above the thick atmosphere of big-Eve or Venus. Also notice how it says ascending from Neptune or Uranus takes less dV than a Venus ascent.

I'm doing an ascent from Eve with FAR in my career save. Downside of FAR = command chairs aren't any good anymore. Upside of FAR: Eve seems to be a little less pea-soupy, so a fairly aerodynamic craft can ascend through the lower atmosphere MUCH faster than in stock and thus use less dV to reach orbit. Overall, I think it's a good thing.

[NecroBones]

LOL, man... I hear you about the lawn-chairs. I tried to resist using one, but since this is my first time to Eve, with a manned return (mission currently in progress), I just couldn't deny the extra 2 km/s dV I got by switching to it. Maybe for a subsequent mission I'll use a real pod, depending on how this experience goes.

Got my Eve lander/kerbal back into orbit and rendezvoused with the orbiter, so all that's left will be escape back to Kerbin. Now that I've done this with a lawnch chair, I'm working on a less cheaty approach next.

Screenshots below. Don't worry, the aerospikes on the ground are from the ejected descent stage, they didn't fall off the lander.

[Javster]

No, but I just did a Mun landing. Brought so much fuel I probably could have gone to Minmus afterwards. EVERY STAGE extended beyond its requirements (didn't even use the ascent stage)

[maccollo]

Although I'm sure any real space program would use blimps to get above the thick atmosphere of big-Eve or Venus. Also notice how it says ascending from Neptune or Uranus takes less dV than a Venus ascent.

It turns out you can get off Venus with "just" 15 km/s of delta V. That is actuall delta V, not vacuum delta V.

However that is in the best case scenario where you have a very aerodynamic rocket for the entire atmospheric ascent, so the delta V requirement is vastly higher for small rockets, except there is no such thing as a small Venus rocket XD

The 15 km/s figure also requires a constant TWR of 2.

Using a seat is is possible to get the delta V with about 300 tons, with a capsule it takes about 1500 tons.

Edited April 14, 2014 by maccollo

[KerbMav]

I have not seen anyone using the new engines to leave Eve - does that mean they are no good for this due to weight and ISP?

[Red Iron Crown]

I have not seen anyone using the new engines to leave Eve - does that mean they are no good for this due to weight and ISP?

There's a design using them in this thread. Not sure he's made the attempt yet.