So is it just me?

[r4pt0r]

I have but even they don't add what I personally would like to have in this game, Kethane is great and all but all you do is use it for fuel, I'd rather have metals and silicon and refinery buildings to build my own parts.

try this one: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59545-Extraplanetary-Launchpads-v3-4 ive read it fits your description: ores, refinerys, smelters, make your own parts, that kind of stuff.

I don't need the game to tell me what to do, I NEED more options, not just building rockets and exploring, That gets boring quickly, You know I am starting to think that all of you are very simple and closed minded and don't know how to read and understand -.-

KSP is about 2 things: Building Rockets, and Exploring

that literally is the game. heres how i describe it to friends: "you build your own rocket out of a bunch of different parts and get to explore this huge solar system"

Stop insulting folks, and try to enjoy the game.

[juvilado]

Seldion is right about the fact that there are very important mods like Clock, Engineer Redux, KAS and others that should be on the very basic pack because they overhaul the game so much that once you try them, you dont see the game so complete without them. Squad members should reach an agreement or contract with the authors of the mods and include them in the main program.

[EuSouONumero345]

I just read the "not to suggest" thread quickly, and I think most of the stuff suggested are going to be implemented to the game and, personally, I think the game is now following a new direction, it's not going to be the same "build your rocket and fly to the unknown" kind of game, well, sandbox mode stills here, but it's also gonna be the "manage your space program" game.

And, yeah, it's not only you thinking there are stuff that stills need to be added, there's even a sub-forum for people to suggest stuff (I think you already know that ).

By the way, I

that basically says, each people likes a different thing, I love KSP by now, but some people would like it when Squad adds resources, or someone that just dislikes space exploration, it's a matter of opinion, it's a problem I think Squad have to deal with, each people wanting a different game, some people may agree with this or that, but each one has a different opinion, making stuff much more complicated.

Also, alpha.

[John FX]

Totally. Those NASA guys? They're just trying to cheat more dv on location.

There will always be someone who regards cheating as possible in a sandbox game...

Myself I don`t think it is. You can change your game so much your achievements aren`t comparable to someone elses but not cheat.

To cheat there has to be a common set of agreed rules that are being broken.

That is simply not the case unless you are doing a challenge.

You can cheat at a challenge.

Using kethane in a challenge that says you can`t. That would be cheating extra Dv.

[vger]

resources should not be in the game, unless you land one of these on the planet, its just excusing you trying to cheat more dv on location. http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/carefinery/crseam/images/refinery.jpg

Who says the resource has to be fuel? What if it's just needed for more advanced parts and you need to haul it back to Kerbin?

[Bessy]

u havent played the game for 100s or even 1000s of hours thats like me saying i played freelancer for 1000 hours yet i didnt play freelancer i played a starwars conversion mod for 1000 hours that used the engine of freelancer as a backing even the basic mechanics were changed like what i do now the only thing i have that is remotely ksp atm is the kerbals are there and some of the stock parts i rarely use the rest is mods that give realish aerodynamics even my system has new planets and i can refuel ships on the way having a proper reason for bases and stations ..the tech tree is also modded to bits im not playing ksp like 90% of the other people that paid for this game"ish" im playing the mods using the scaffolding the squad team and put in

saying resources are not fun but u play kethane is like saying u dont believe in god but still wish to tell him how much u love your partner by getting married in a church

resources are great they add a complexity to the game that i think is needed the devs made it all last year drills processors etc and decided it was to complicated for people ... but to be fair it would give them dam pointless asteroids in last patch a use other than oo look a rock and u cant even make rings around the planet because they are not visible after a certain distance ohh wait theres a mod i use for that too but its has a 700KM range wouldnt it be good if that was stock

you dont have to refuel on other worlds just like u dont when ur using kethane but giving those of us who like to feel like we are expanding and making something other than oo iv put a asteroid on all the planets got all the science now what ... id like to build something that i can say now thats cool ... not it looks cool that what it does is cool

i hate the argument of well i cant see how we can have fun with it so we wont add it ... because im sure there are many people who can find fun in it im def 1

would be cool if lighter metals etc xenon etc are rare on kerbin but if u get your own from another planet it saves u cash etc

[Vanamonde]

Folks, we understand that you all feel strongly about your positions, but we can't have people insulting each other on our forum, or things get unpleasant for everyone. Please consider your tone before hitting the submit button.

[Jouni]

The problem with resources is that it's very hard to implement them in a believable way, while still making the game fun. Currently KSP is a game about rockets that work mostly like real rockets. If resources are implemented, do they turn the game into a kind-of-realistic mining and industry simulator? After all, heavy industry may become the biggest reason for space travel in the future. Or will the approach be more game-like, as in the Kethane Pack, which is just an easy way to get huge amounts of free fuel quickly anywhere, with just a tiny bit of equipment? Then KSP will become a game about space travel, where things work in an arbitrary way.

[Atoning Unifex]

Skipping over the frustration in this thread and going back to the OP:

Career Mode:

Should be more then just gathering research, a budget or resources should be implemented.

Your space center shouldn't start with everything, If a budget is implemented one should have to spend cash to upgrade it, Unlocking different parts or part tiers.

If resources are implemented then one would have to buy them at the start, this would also allow for buildings to be build that would allow you to go and gather your own resources and make your own parts.

I agree career mode should be more, however budget will be introduced, as will contracts and reputation. Resources was one thing I was disappointed that had been shelved but I can see how it could just become a grind rather than fun. If i have to spend hours of gameplay to mine resources & build parts, so I can then launch a rocket to where I really want to go, then it's going to be really dull after one or maybe two times.

I have wondered whether a limited space centre initially would be feasible and I'm not really sure how it could be done. Parts are already unlocked via research and I have a feeling once money comes in you will also have to pay to create unlocked parts - you can see there is an apparent part cost in the research tree. So, in terms of having building upgrades, I can imagine maybe having to build aircraft first to get research to unlock VAB - I'm rubbish at flying in this game I think it's due an overhaul too - maybe also having a shorter VAB to restrict rocket size. Possibly. I'm not really sold on this though.

Space:

Orbital structure should be in the base game, whats the point of just sending rockets into space, The games replay-ability gets stale quickly.

With orbital structure one could station a science team up there and allow a steady and contentious stream of science coming in, Tho small as they are only observing other galaxies, stars, nebula and such.

Certainly more parts suitable for building a space station would be great. I've used mod packs to get what I think are a few cool stations out around the system, however there are core game parts that you can launch and dock together in space to create a habitable structure. Admittedly it doesn't provide any benefits but it's cool to achieve it.

As for a steady stream of science. This has been discussed to death and boils down to the fact that, if you have continuous science over time then you just hit time warp, gather all the research to unlock everything and that's basically derailed the progression. There are ways around this, however perhaps you might wish to look in some of those lengthy discussions. I'd love to see science stations in orbit. I hope they find a good way of implementing them.

I can understand getting bored of the game. I'm 700 hours in and, even though I love the game, I'm in need of a break. I've not really touched ARM and I'm waiting for the next update before I get into it again - maybe even longer. I dont mind that though, I've already got my money's worth, anything more is a bonus!

[vger]

The problem with resources is that it's very hard to implement them in a believable way, while still making the game fun. Currently KSP is a game about rockets that work mostly like real rockets. If resources are implemented, do they turn the game into a kind-of-realistic mining and industry simulator? After all, heavy industry may become the biggest reason for space travel in the future. Or will the approach be more game-like, as in the Kethane Pack, which is just an easy way to get huge amounts of free fuel quickly anywhere, with just a tiny bit of equipment? Then KSP will become a game about space travel, where things work in an arbitrary way.

Given how early in development the game still is, I don't think it's fair to say the game is about rockets. It's about exploration. Rockets are a huge part of that, but there are a lot more gameplay elements, some that haven't been implemented in the slightest.

EVA's have almost no purpose right now. All you have to do is step off a ladder, grab a sample, hop back in and go home. Takes 2 more seconds than an unmanned landing, and a little extra dV. You really think it's going to stay that way?

[John FX]

Well to get back to the OP and the title of the thread, yes. It`s just you. I think you may have done the equivalent of buying Flight Sim X and complaining in their forum that it`s only about flying planes...

[Stargate525]

EVA's have almost no purpose right now. All you have to do is step off a ladder, grab a sample, hop back in and go home. Takes 2 more seconds than an unmanned landing, and a little extra dV. You really think it's going to stay that way?

Actually... Yeah, I do.

[r4pt0r]

as do i. at most i forsee a sample grabbing animation where a kerbal bends down for a sample

[Seldion]

So you basically just want a huge gripe-fest in here? Everyone should just air their grievances? Your personal list in the OP will be largely addressed in future versions, as stated, What other features that are "being left to the modding community" has you in such an uproar?

I have much more of a list, this was just to set things off, as for the "Gripe-fest" no not at all.

Frankly the part you said "and those things in your OP that have been shelved by the devs can be put in using mods." again another person that fails to understand anything other then they're point of view, please if you are not going to understand what the whole conversation is about then please, don't post.

try this one: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59545-Extraplanetary-Launchpads-v3-4 ive read it fits your description: ores, refinerys, smelters, make your own parts, that kind of stuff.

KSP is about 2 things: Building Rockets, and Exploring

that literally is the game. heres how i describe it to friends: "you build your own rocket out of a bunch of different parts and get to explore this huge solar system"

Stop insulting folks, and try to enjoy the game.

Pretty shallow and lacking of a game if that is all it is and is going to be, Also on another note this is taken from the main website it self.

"KSP is a game where the players create and manage their own space program. Build spacecraft, fly them, and try to help the Kerbals to fulfill their ultimate mission of conquering space."

Conquering space? how is one to do that if you do nothing but explore.

Folks, we understand that you all feel strongly about your positions, but we can't have people insulting each other on our forum, or things get unpleasant for everyone. Please consider your tone before hitting the submit button.

And yet every where I go, no one understands my point of view, please add that maybe before pressing the summit button they should read and re-read the post to fully understand it instead of skimming over it and then posting a quick though on the matter, Thank you.

Certainly more parts suitable for building a space station would be great. I've used mod packs to get what I think are a few cool stations out around the system, however there are core game parts that you can launch and dock together in space to create a habitable structure. Admittedly it doesn't provide any benefits but it's cool to achieve it.

There are simpler ways of adding space stations then building the whole thing and launching it into space or part by part, Frankly you could have it where you build the core space station in a hanger, then launch a construction platform into space that when you add parts to it, slowly builds it into one part instead of many different parts, then you can add "Wings" to the core station via docking ports or attachment points and thus have a fully functional station in orbit with out the perforce issues of large amounts of parts.

as for a steady stream of science. This has been discussed to death and boils down to the fact that, if you have continuous science over time then you just hit time warp, gather all the research to unlock everything and that's basically derailed the progression. There are ways around this, however perhaps you might wish to look in some of those lengthy discussions. I'd love to see science stations in orbit. I hope they find a good way of implementing them.

Having the part unlocked in one thing, getting the resources needed to build the parts is another thing, This is one point that no one seems to understand.

Given how early in development the game still is, I don't think it's fair to say the game is about rockets. It's about exploration. Rockets are a huge part of that, but there are a lot more gameplay elements, some that haven't been implemented in the slightest.

EVA's have almost no purpose right now. All you have to do is step off a ladder, grab a sample, hop back in and go home. Takes 2 more seconds than an unmanned landing, and a little extra dV. You really think it's going to stay that way?

The rockets are the means to a end, But if this game is only about exploring then it is very pointless, As I said before I can easily go play a free game to get what this game offers and has planed to offer.

Well to get back to the OP and the title of the thread, yes. It`s just you. I think you may have done the equivalent of buying Flight Sim X and complaining in their forum that it`s only about flying planes...

Yes but the name says it all, I know what to expect with that game, This is called Kerbal Space program, Where all you do is build rockets and explore, Please if your not going to understand the full post, don't post at all, Thank you.

[vinsent10]

It's fun like minecraft.You can play it for the thrill of doing new stuff and when that stuff is over you just play it out in your own way.You can build a mün base,a house held up by propellers take on a challenge in the challenge forum.It follows a formula.It is what you make it.Yes you can call it ''just put bases on other planets'' but then you don't really get the Point of the game.If you don't like making bases do something else in the game that you like.start a Company in the forums to make flying rovers and other stuff that hasn't been invented yet

'

[Atoning Unifex]

Having the part unlocked in one thing, getting the resources needed to build the parts is another thing, This is one point that no one seems to understand.

I had actually addressed the resources in the previous aragraph to the one you quoted:

Resources was one thing I was disappointed that had been shelved but I can see how it could just become a grind rather than fun. If i have to spend hours of gameplay to mine resources & build parts, so I can then launch a rocket to where I really want to go, then it's going to be really dull after one or maybe two times.

[Red Iron Crown]

As I said before I can easily go play a free game to get what this game offers and has planed to offer.

Don't be coy, please link to another game, free or paid, that combines KSP's modular spacecraft construction with realistic orbital physics and a variety of planets to explore. I'd like to know, much as I love KSP if there was another game like it I would likely play it, too.

Other than that, I don't understand your complaint (and I've read your posts). You feel that because KSP has Space Program in the name it somehow didn't meet your expectations after paying for it? Did you play the demo? Read any reviews? Poke around the website and forums? It's not exactly a closely-held secret what the gameplay mechanics of which KSP consists are.

[regex]

I have much more of a list, this was just to set things off, as for the "Gripe-fest" no not at all.

Frankly the part you said "and those things in your OP that have been shelved by the devs can be put in using mods." again another person that fails to understand anything other then they're point of view, please if you are not going to understand what the whole conversation is about then please, don't post.

You're right, I don't understand the conversation. Basically you're mad because KSP isn't a space program by your definition? That some pieces aren't being put in or haven't been put in yet? That the game is incomplete and you're angry because of that? I got news for you, then: the KSP devs are going to make the game they want to see and if you don't like it you should go play that aforementioned free game you keep lauding.

You have a laundry list of complaints but as soon as people address those complaints you say they don't understand the "conversation". I can only conclude that you're trolling. If you're not actually trolling then please read (and re-read) the posts and understand that people are actually trying to help you get what you want out of the game.

[Baythan]

Ok, I trimmed your original post to try so sum up what you are getting at. I'd like to think i understand what you are saying, but because my opinion differs from yours, I'm afraid you're going to just say I don't understand (or are you ONLY looking for responses that agree with you? If so, you're in the wrong place).

... I came here and read the rules like I always do, Then I read the "What not to suggest?" and "Already suggested List" ... see how many things are left to the modders to do ... Most of these features I think personally should be added to the base game by the developers, So many developers today make a half reared game and then leave it to the consumers to do the rest of it.

You read the forum posts about what not to suggest, what has already been suggested, and the planned feature list. You also seem to have made the assumption that the planned feature list is a complete list of all that's going to be in the game and nothing else thats not in this list is going to be added. I feel its safe to say that this is a false assumption, as just about everything added in the ARM patch(0.23.5) was NOT on any of those lists that I can recall.

Most of the items marked as "Not Happening" have no citations, but Devs at one point or another said they would not be adding those features so its safe to assume they'll never be stock parts of the base game. Mostly because they don't fit with the Dev's vision of this game at the time they said they wouldn't do it. They reserve the right to change their minds, thats life. But then, the SEVEN(thats it, just 7 measly things they've nixed) listed 'not happening' features aren't what KSP is about anyway.

Don't get me wrong, the game is great as it is, but in my opinion I think it is also lacking...

It is an opinion, we are all entitled to them. No need to be calling people stupid for disagreeing, we're trying to discuss the matter in a civil manner here.

So this is why I started this thread, Do any of you feel the same way, If so please post here what features you think the base game should have.

This entire section of the forum is about what features people think should be in the game, why have one thread in that forum to do the same? Most people are going to post their suggestions in separate threads, not here, so this thread is going to remain a response to your post and any additional posts you make.

Career Mode:

Should be more then just gathering research, a budget or resources should be implemented.

Your space center shouldn't start with everything, If a budget is implemented one should have to spend cash to upgrade it, Unlocking different parts or part tiers.

If resources are implemented then one would have to buy them at the start, this would also allow for buildings to be build that would allow you to go and gather your own resources and make your own parts.

Space:

Orbital structure should be in the base game, whats the point of just sending rockets into space, The games replay-ability gets stale quickly.

With orbital structure one could station a science team up there and allow a steady and contentious stream of science coming in, Tho small as they are only observing other galaxies, stars, nebula and such.

Career mode is going to be much more than it is, it is in it's infancy right now. The tech tree is still being rebalanced (right now all the parts are balanced for Sandbox mode).

I love the idea of having to manage a budget and upgrade the KSC with whatever rewards come from the contract system (feature still in development, we have no idea what kind of rewards there are, or how 'money' is going to work).

I don't like the idea of having to travel all over the place and mine minerals to build individual parts. I'm leary enough of having to manage a budget that gets wiped out with every Duna mission I launch, or each Eve mission that can't come back because I calculated my D-V wrong, or mis-timed a burn.

Orbital space stations? Awesome, tons of us want 'em, that's why people have already made mods to add them to the game. Not because Squad isn't going to do it, but because the modders WANTED to make a mod. Squad hasn't "left it up to [them]," they probably jumped the gun. If Harvester and the other Devs want to add that feature, there are people out there that have already figured some of the problems out.

Orbital telescopes gathering science? Sure! Why not. Career mode is still in the works, still needs balancing, I don't see why this can't or won't happen.

As far as I can tell the base game is going to be very stale and makes me wish I wouldn't of bought the game, specially after seeing what is all to be left up to modders, made me lose all respect for this game and its makers.

Just what is it thats being left up to the modders? The seven features they decided not to implement? The 1,001 other features it would take them twenty years to add? If a mod is out there that ALREADY does what people want, why should the Devs waste time re-doing all that work? They've already hired two or three modders from the community to help them work on this game, nothing says they can't or won't do that again. Some mods have already been rendered obsolete by features they had becoming stock, it may well continue to happen.

Theres no set release date for this game, it may stay in development for years, growing well beyond it's original scope.To assume the base game is going to be stale is to look at a sapling and assume it's going to be a crappy tree growing bitter fruit, when it could be a redwood or an orange tree. The future of this game is as yet unwritten, and I believe it has a bright future, as do hundreds or even thousands of other people who play this game and either suggest interesting features or decide to mod them in.

So, really... what's the problem? If you don't like the game then I'm sorry, I love it. If you think it's incomplete, well.. it is. If you still have no respect for the hard-working makers of this game (did you know SQUAD isn't a game developer?), then there's nothing anyone here can say to change your mind.

[Ikaneko]

Then I read the What not to suggest fourm and see how many things are left to the modders to do and think, Well now it seems like there are so many games out there that have potenial but then fall short or leave it to the community to either put in features they want or would like to see added, Most of these features I think personally should be added to the base game by the developers, So many developers today make a half reared game and then leave it to the consumers to do the rest of it.

The thing is, the reason features are on the what not to suggest page does not mean that it is not going to be added. In fact, it means the opposite: they are going to be added in future updates.

Incorrect. It merely means the suggestions are so common that we have to limit them so that we can actually see a few original ideas come around every now and again. Some things, like weapons, are most decidedly not (as stated by Squad) going to be in the game, and are thus on the WNTS list.

--Vexx32

Also, a sandbox game is all about getting a sense of achievement. If you want something more, wait until Budget and reputation is added in 0.24. One more thing: your attitude to other forum members is horrendous! How dare you belittle these people and insult them? Doing this will merely turn them more and more against you. Attacking someone who gave their opinion (which they are entitled to have) and even supported your motion will simply make them go against you.

Edited April 21, 2014 by vexx32

[John FX]

I know features are still being added, I know already so stop posting it, What This whole discussion has been about is the LACK OF FEATURES

I`ll just leave this here...

It seems to capture the thread...

You can`t discuss the topic of the thread?

problem : not enough features

solution : features are being added

difficulty is you can`t mention features are being added?

thread over in my mind.

Keep going round in circles if you like but I`m out of here.

[DoToH]

Back to the OP, and linked to the discussion about if resources or any other feature must be added, here goes my humble opinion:

Before I purchased KSP when 0.18 was released, I read these forums and the Planned Features Wiki page.

I knew the game was in alpha state before purchasing. Multiplayer was in the "What not to suggest" list and "Not happening" list back then. Better aerodynamics, re-entry heat and (not sure of this one) resource system were planned features.

Devnotes about 0.24 confirmed that multiplayer is in first stage of development as we also can read in the wiki page: "Squad is committed to add multiplayer to the finished game after the success of the user created mod KMP, or Kerbal MultiPlayer."

Resource system development is parked/abandoned, but they gave a reason. If Squad thinks they have to find a better or nicer solution than something like Kethane mod before working on it, I support the decision (even if I dont like it). They did a great work until now, the game is awesome. Im sure if they find a way to make it nice, we'll have it in vanilla.

On the other hand, aerodynamics, re-entry heat and some other nice features seem forgotten. No word about them, even when we have nice mods for many of them.

What im trying to say is: I prefer resource system or aerodynamics better than multiplayer or some kind of autopilot (I dont use mechjeb), but it doesnt mean I dont want multiplayer or autopilot to be developed. I'm sure I will like many of the upcoming features. If not, I only need the option to disable them or just not use them, like many mods I tried and uninstalled.

As alpha testers, we are supposed to give feedback, suggestions and constructive critic about a game under development. I dont see the point of repeating hundreds of times "KSP is in alpha state, features are being added" or complaining about lack of features. Some players want to give their opinion just because is in alpha state. They ask for features they consider "core" to be developed before, for balancing changes,... Some other players are mainly satisfied and dont want to change anything. Different playstyle, different opinion. There isn't a right or wrong side. As long as we keep constructive is good feedback for the devs.

[Kasuha]

I have played the game for almost 200 hours now, I am bored to death of it doing the same thing over and over with no real sense of achievement

200 hours is not all that much to some, but many people leave a game after way shorter period. You seem to be the case of a player who likes the game for the fun it used to be but who does not find it fun anymore. That's quite normal thing to happen and it is important to understand that it is not someone's fault that it happened. Many people go and complain about the game not providing enough challenge or certain feature with which they would certainly find the game fun again ... but even if they actually get what they're asking for (and yes I have seen that happen), it often doesn't help. I had this happen to me way too many times already with all kinds of games (and even non-games) and there was always just one solution: to move on. It's better to leave a game with good memories of all the fun you had with it than to leave it with bitter feelings about it not going the way you thought you'd have liked it to go. Because with good memories, you may eventually get back and try it again for the old feeling of accomplishment on things that seemed so simple by the time you left.

[Alan85PL]

OK so will just throw a few coins from me to this discussion. Of course its only mine opinion and i won't to get in some misunderstanding with anybody. Please excuse me for my bit lack of English.

I don't really remember which version of KSP was my first. But from about 0.19 im just coming back to see whats been implemented and dont play the game.

I know what a development release is. But im still a bit disappointed that there are no resources or a sort of economy implemented yet...

Sure KSP was for me a lot of fun and a tricky to achive some orbits and landing. But i was bored after a time. So i do well understand of some frustration, becouse of launching rockets for free. Just to be clear. An economy based on resources is the thing thant keeps me off from the game since some time...

I dont want a enginnering-academic-nasa-simulator. But it would be for me still much more fun, do keep some working infrastructure to fuel things in the game. Or gathering different fuel components from the planets soil or liquids. These arent achivements but an in game task that gives you the opportunity of achieving your goals. Thats one of the main problems in the real life - space exploration that we are challenging now...going to Mars with all the fuel for back home - despite the life sustaining resources for the crew. I mean there are a lot of games where do you build stuff from credits, gas and crystals thats S-F ;]... KSP should have a near real-life resources-economy to keep the space program alive. Or tasks for the crew - that costs resources and in-game time. To build, repair or adjust.

So im a bit disappointed its isnt still in the game, how it was said about a half year ago. But im still very positive and hoping for the future of KSP. I see a lot of potential in this game, and i hope my expectations will be fulfilled some day. I think then it will be an almost perfect game for me.

But at this point its a bit boring. Dont get me wrong;]

Edited April 22, 2014 by Alan85PL

[Linear]

Lets simple this out.

The guy is complaining about the challenge of the game. He clearly doesn't understand that much about the game, then - career mode was only added a few months ago. What would he have thought before that...?

He's complaining about the lack of/diversity of features; the game is being made at this point, stuff will be added and fixed, just be patient.

You're also missing the point, features that they don't want to be discussed here aren't out of the equation, multiplayer is an example of this.

Overall, everyone has their own opinion, and everyone is always right in a way, and always wrong in another. We must be patient, we all love the game - the devs do too - we have to embrace the passion of the KSP team, there's not that many game studios which would put this much effort into one game, considering it's not a massive AAA title.