Yuegong-1 - China's Moon Base

[Red Iron Crown]

The funny thing is, I agree with some of the things kiwi is trying to say (I think). China is already the world's biggest economic superpower, and I think it will likely surpass the US in other areas within the next few decades to become the most powerful country on Earth. I don't think that guarantees they'll stick to their Moonbase plans, but good for them (and humanity) if they do.

The way he delivers his message, though, I can't agree with.

[Seret]

The funny thing is, I agree with some of the things kiwi is trying to say (I think).

<snip>

The way he delivers his message, though, I can't agree with.

Same here. It's clear China are on the ascendant, but there's no need to be a jerk about saying so.

[NASAFanboy]

Because I think the Chinese are inefficient and on an unsustainable rate of growth that will lead to economic disaster does not mean I do not support or condone their plans to construct an research outpost on the Moon. It does not mean I am an uber-USA nationalist who is blind to the facts - I've visited China four times in my life, each stay amounting from one to six months, and I have relatives who live there and a friend who works at CNSA. I do not hate China, it is a good country with much potiental, but for now, it needs to focus its resources to fixing the issues in itself

(I.e Heavy overuse of red tape, corruption amongst local governments, skyrocketing property prices and crime rates, heavy pollution, most of economy (83%) owned by Foreign nations, improvement of living standards in countryside and city, welfare, and all that good stuff).

////POLITICS

I support multiple national bases on the Moon instead of one large "international" one. But instead of ignoring each other, these bases should be accessible to all personnel from other nations and should constantly be in contact with each other and send help if one base suffers a problem with their equipment. This way, we could have an "insurance system", that if one base has trouble, then the other bases could evacuate the personnel of that base to their base and help fix the problem rather than risk an total evacuation of the Moon.

So in truth, just one international base spread out to modules managed by different nations in different areas on the Moon.

[shynung]

So in truth, just one international base spread out to modules managed by different nations in different areas on the Moon.

Basically an ISS-esque construction on the Moon. I like the idea.

[shynung]

The problem is, in trying to tell you how the Chinese think and are patient with their planning, I was insulted and abused... and now... you say I'm in the wrong?

Yeah, thanks... people want to be jerks, then that's fine with me. Maybe these people can disagree without the need to insult, I mean, its almost like they were trying to bully me into keeping quiet... probably the only way they can disagree without the need to put up decent arguments.

No one here ever thought that the Chinese will never have a Moon base. What they're voicing out is boiled down to "The Chinese cannot have a Moon base by simply displaying these exhibits." I am quite certain that, given their technological progress, combined with the fact that they managed to soft-land a rover on the Moon intact, the Chinese will eventually have some sort of permanent installation on the Moon. However, building a Moon base is always going to be difficult, no matter who's doing it.

What drove us to question your argument was the fact that you were being emotionally unstable, to put it lightly, when you delivered the argument. Try calming yourself down for a moment. Even if the Chinese somehow completed their Moon base within the decade (which is barely possible, if at all), it does not mean that any of us are in immediate danger.

[YNM]

It'd be great if that will be real; but it'd be even more greater if they worked together with NASA and ESA (JAXA too maybe, ISRO, CSA and Roskosmos seems to be not in line with this (or if they could, alone)) and build that telescope on the far side of the Moon everyone has wanted !

Really, what's the point in traveling to other bodies while you can just sat, observe, analyze, and getting datas on them ? Our Earth isn't too bad to live on yet right ?

[Herr Doktor Strangemember]

Basically an ISS-esque construction on the Moon. I like the idea.

It's me I'm back again. I'd wish to avoid that route again, having an international base sounds nice and all but it would be a compromise affair, not a good idea in the long run. Having to make each part/module universal is just asking for trouble from a logistical point of view to say nothing of planning. Just trying make the plumbing and electrical connections universal between 10 nations makes my mind gibber.

Having all the original bases near each other so that help is not far away makes sense, as a nation gets better/experience at making it work up there then they can move out. This would also make it better for all involved to have a permanent manufacturing center on the Moon. That way it harder to walk away if the winds of politics blow ill.

I have a layman's knowledge of 3d manufacturing but how hard is it with 3d printers (high end professional/industrial) to make a half-von Neuman machine? Have a manufacturing hub with a SLS printer that can make it own parts and others have it make more parts to build a new SLS printer a few times then turn the production over to making simple robots to tunnel to expand the base(s)? IF you add industrial robots like the Foxconn FoxBot then you can have 24/7 manufacturing on the Moon.

Thoughts? Is better build here and ship, ship there and build? Which would be better for the base and the mission?

Regards.

[going-to-the-MOON]

Whoa, half of the last 3 pages have been a flame war... can we bring it back on track please?

Anyways, I am glad that at least someone is doing something in space other than in LEO. It's about time we get back to doing something more interesting.

[shynung]

I have a layman's knowledge of 3d manufacturing but how hard is it with 3d printers (high end professional/industrial) to make a half-von Neuman machine? Have a manufacturing hub with a SLS printer that can make it own parts and others have it make more parts to build a new SLS printer a few times then turn the production over to making simple robots to tunnel to expand the base(s)? IF you add industrial robots like the Foxconn FoxBot then you can have 24/7 manufacturing on the Moon.

Hard. Really, really hard.

To make any machine, you need metal. There's aluminium on the Moon, but you need smelters to purify it. Also needed are metal-separating devices, CNC cutters, welders, tool-cutting machines, bending rigs, assemblers, and probably more. Lifting all these to the Moon, assembling it, and giving it enough power to function properly will be a significant engineering challenge.

The only things that can be manufactured from Moon dust without much difficulty are compressed regolith bricks, and abrasive grains (aluminium oxide is a good abrasive, and it is abundant on the Moon).

[Vanamonde]

After removing a number of off-topic and insulting posts, we must remind you folks:

1. Please leave politics out of the discussions on our forum.

2. Do not insult each other.

3. If someone insults you, do not reply and add to the problem. Hit the 'report' button on the post in question and let the moderators deal with it.

[Seret]

I have a layman's knowledge of 3d manufacturing but how hard is it with 3d printers (high end professional/industrial) to make a half-von Neuman machine?

It's well beyond our technology. 3D printing isn't suitable to replace every manufacturing process, despite what some of the more excited voices in the press might be saying. It's analogous to the invention of the CNC machine; significant and very welcome, but not a game-changer.

[SargeRho]

Actually, you can print the "shell" of habitation modules and other such things directly from lunar regolith, been demonstrated by ESA with fake moon dust. It doesn't save you all of the mass, but coating the inside I imagine is cheaper than carrying the whole thing there.

[Seret]

Yep, like I said: it's useful, but it isn't magic.

[Jas1126]

They need to figure out the basics of efficiency for now. By basics I mean that they can go to the moon and back without batting an economical/technological eye.

The day they launch manned missions without it being any bigger a deal than saying "Hey, I just drove my car to work" is the day we should support moon bases, or the like.. Anytime before then is just asking for serious problems.

[vger]

The day they launch manned missions without it being any bigger a deal than saying "Hey, I just drove my car to work" is the day we should support moon bases

I doubt space travel will ever be that safe, unless we find a way of getting up there that doesn't involve countless tons of explosive fuel.

[8749236]

That is ridiculously similar to my design of my future Kethane base on Mun!..

Excepts everything I have so far is on wheels... except the power tower (consist of 12 Huge solar panels..) which yuegong does not have that is not on wheels...

Also, it will always be funded..

But whether it will be this design remains mystery/unknown..

Since, there will always been more design and projects than they can afford... Unless we remove economy forever (everything costs no money), which... is nearly impossible...

[Jas1126]

I doubt space travel will ever be that safe, unless we find a way of getting up there that doesn't involve countless tons of explosive fuel.

I never spoke of safety. I'm speaking of convenience. Driving a car is far from safe so I'm not sure why you thought that's what I meant. XD

[Reddragon]

I'm still waiting for the announcement of a launch vehicle to support these plans by the Chinese. They sure have made great steps in space exploration but also have international and US based companies. My best bet is the next lunar landing will be conducted using Space X hardware. This may sound too demagogic but without any equipment proposed by anyone else I just can't imagine that nobody will would waln to use the cheapest HLV (the Falcon Heavy) with groundbreaking new technologies to support even just one lunar landing.

[vger]

I never spoke of safety. I'm speaking of convenience. Driving a car is far from safe so I'm not sure why you thought that's what I meant. XD

Probably because when it comes to space, safety and success there are more or less the same thing. You can be an insane driver and still get to work with a fairly good chance of survival, IF your reflexes are good enough. Try that in space...

But regardless, how much wealth would a nation need in order to make space travel 'casual?' I don't think even China can do that.

[Jas1126]

Probably because when it comes to space, safety and success there are more or less the same thing. You can be an insane driver and still get to work with a fairly good chance of survival, IF your reflexes are good enough. Try that in space...

But regardless, how much wealth would a nation need in order to make space travel 'casual?' I don't think even China can do that.

Wealth? No, no. I said they need to work on efficiency; meaning they need to figure out ways to make this endeavor far less costly. Of course this would require the development of new engine/fuel types, transports that are minimal in design, ect. Advances in general. We're not prepared for this kind of endeavor. Not even close.

Humankind is a funny lot. We claim to have supreme intellect over all other creatures and yet we make the stupidest mistakes that were completely avoidable with time, patience, development and sense. And now people are wanting to live on Mars and make moon bases when we can barely get off of the ground without monumental challenges and cost. /sigh

[camlost]

There's a planned LongMarch-9, whose engines are under initial development already.

@kiwi1960, Stop pretending to be a China expert. Hongkong was seceded to GB in three pacts dating 1842,1861 and 1898, all before the boxer riot. And Mao's wife never became president.

@OP, where did you get the info? ASAIK, Yuegong-1 is a bio-regenerative life support research lab from BUAA

http://blog.sciencenet.cn/blog-1034086-790619.html

Also, China has yet to make decisions on a manned lunar mission yet, this might as well be a student's project