Rotating parts in the VAB is so counter intuitive, it's worse than random

[nhnifong]

If you've ever rotated parts in the VAB, you know that guessing which key you need to press on the first try is basically impossible. For some reason the mapping is totally out of whack with say, kerbal eva controls.

So, I challenge you: pick a direction, hold shift, and try to rotate the part in that direction on the first try. If you fail, answer NO on the poll, if you succeed, answer YES.

Hypothesis: Rotation controls in the vab are so counter-intuitive, that they cause player's guesses to be WORSE than random.

Conditions for confirmation:

NO accounts for greather than 5/6th of responses.

[SkyRender]

The only parts that ever tripped me up for rotation at all were the two control surface flaps, and that stopped being the case recently (small flaps you hit S; big ones you hit Q). Really, I think the rotational issues on those two parts are just because they were originally designed when the VAB was the only building, since they used to be part of the NovaPunch Pack. It made sense back then for their default orientation to be in such strange directions because that translated out to properly positioned when placed on a spaceplane being built in the VAB.

[Justin Kerbice]

Yes and no, it's depend, rotation control are the same as a plane, think of Pitch/Roll/Yaw and you're almost good.

The weird thing is how parts behave with each other, especially plane parts (typically wings vs control surface) and the colliders shape doesn't match parts' shapes like fuel tanks, worth: the lack of useful mark on hubs (only top/bottom nodes can be connected to the same kind of part, ie 2-n rockomax hubs together).

[Superfluous J]

Usually in the VAB I can rotate just fine. In the SPH I sometimes can't even get the part back to where I had it. If I'm using fine (< 90 degree) rotations, I frequently drop the part off on the side and grab a new one. And then I concentrate really hard on what keys I'm using which makes the whole process insanely tedious.

[Dizzle]

Fun fact: No one has ever correctly placed control surfaces on the first try, least of all on B9 wings.

[Remkeau]

Usually in the VAB I can rotate just fine. In the SPH I sometimes can't even get the part back to where I had it. If I'm using fine (< 90 degree) rotations, I frequently drop the part off on the side and grab a new one. And then I concentrate really hard on what keys I'm using which makes the whole process insanely tedious.

This, exactly this.

[Random Tank]

By the way, if you press space it will return the part to its original orientation.

I did get manage to get it on my first try, but that's just luck; I do agree they are a bit... Random, but I don't really have an idea of how to change them...

[Monger]

True. I never rotate them correctly, either. I wonder why.

[Dizzle]

By the way, if you press space it will return the part to its original orientation.

How have I never learned this until now!?

[Sirrobert]

Back in high school, whenever I walked out of a classroom (I'd been multiple times per week for years), I'd go in the wrong direction more often than in the right.

Exactly the same with this rotation.

I don't concider it a big deal, and it will stay this way nomather how you map them.

That said, if you think it's counter intuitive, just fix it. This isn't a concole, you can remap the keys

[Guest]

It's a game inside the game! The behavior of parts gets even funnier when you start putting unaligned parts on unaligned parts, it becomes almost a sort of rubiks cube (easier ofc) to solve to get the right angle because each direction (q/e & a/d & w/s) is a sort of mix of each (but not unpredictable) lol

My tip: look for the direction you want your part in, then make random try of the 3 key couples, when you find the right key couple to use (roughly), press it a couple time (a bit less than where you want it) and then correct the not desired move with the other key couple that you'll need to find. If you overdo any of the direction or use the wrong key couple just undo it and retry using another key couple. When you get use to this it's really not an issue anymore at least for me

Edited May 3, 2014 by RevanCorana

[Shna_na]

I can do the basic rotations fine, my issue comes when parts are placed awkwardly. For example, if you're attaching something to a wing and want it to rotate in a certain way, sometimes it does that but with rotation in another direction at the same time. Like it's in some kind of a spinny joint thing. I can't describe it in any way other than this, but I think I'm making sense.

[Guest]

Yes i know sometimes it even gets the 3 direction change on each key couple at different speed each..

Try switching lock/unlock mode, but anyway sometimes with this issue you cannot get the exact angle you want (wich is a problem for wings). Solution? adjust with ugly struts :/

Edited May 3, 2014 by RevanCorana

[timsfitz]

By the way, if you press space it will return the part to its original orientation.

I did get manage to get it on my first try, but that's just luck; I do agree they are a bit... Random, but I don't really have an idea of how to change them...

I didn't know that. 1600 hours. How did I not know.

[Nao]

Thanks to you nhnifong, we have found a bug!

It looks like the base part rotation pitch controls are reversed, while shifted fine controls are fine. I've posted the issue on the support forum, but it would be nice if somebody could confirm this too.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/78715-Part-rotation-controls-remapping?p=1134151#post1134151

[Sof]

I didn't know that. 1600 hours. How did I not know.

I would suggest looking at the keyboard shortcuts on the Wiki

So many times I've been all "I wish you could do this easily" only to find out later there has been a key for that since the demo.

[nhnifong]

Thanks to you nhnifong, we have found a bug!

It looks like the base part rotation pitch controls are reversed, while shifted fine controls are fine. I've posted the issue on the support forum, but it would be nice if somebody could confirm this too.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/78715-Part-rotation-controls-remapping?p=1134151#post1134151

Confirmed.

In addition to this, I would suggest making the axes of rotation for surface attached parts aligned to the surface they are being attached to, instead of the global axes.

[boxman]

Generally I dont find this a big problem anymore even though it was a big pain in the beginning. It just takes a great deal of practice before you kinda just know how it works.

There is one big problem I am having though. If you place another part ontop of a part that has already been rotated, it will always be off even if you attach for example a girder directly ontop of another girder.

Edited May 3, 2014 by boxman

[Tortoise]

Usually in the VAB I can rotate just fine. In the SPH I sometimes can't even get the part back to where I had it. If I'm using fine (< 90 degree) rotations, I frequently drop the part off on the side and grab a new one. And then I concentrate really hard on what keys I'm using which makes the whole process insanely tedious.

This right here. Mhm.

This is me.

[boxman]

I would suggest looking at the keyboard shortcuts on the Wiki

So many times I've been all "I wish you could do this easily" only to find out later there has been a key for that since the demo.

Exactly! Often I have even assumed that there is no way developers thought of certain feature and then I find out it has been in the game for years.

[Shna_na]

Solution? adjust with ugly struts :/

The issue shows its ugly head whenever I'm making something for aesthetic purposes. Struts are out of the picture unless I've planned for them to be there.

[Zeroignite]

Seconding the "easy in VAB, impossible in SPH" sentiment.

[Kasuha]

I have to agree, I just can't remember which key does which rotation in VAB/SPH. Also in some cases shifted keys rotate the part in the opposite direction to the unshifted key. So I always keep pressing random key combinations until I get the part the way I wanted it.

But rotation is not the worst problem for me. Angle/surface snap is, whenever I want to mount something radially. Parts just do whatever they please and way too often they're simply impossible to set up in the direction I want them to be.

[cantab]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iaTV6-pFEQQ/UCZeQm2Di5I/AAAAAAAAA4I/exiQDmURVYk/s1600/blank.png

How have I never learned this until now!?

My sentiments exactly.

Thanks to you nhnifong, we have found a bug!

It looks like the base part rotation pitch controls are reversed, while shifted fine controls are fine. I've posted the issue on the support forum, but it would be nice if somebody could confirm this too.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/78715-Part-rotation-controls-remapping?p=1134151#post1134151

You are absolutely right...I'm surprised I've not noticed this either.

Anyway, I have to say yes and no. When it was hovering in the air I rotated the small gear bay as I wanted, but as soon as I tried to put it on the bottom of a lander can it flipped every which way. I think it's the surface attachment that makes for problems. Other times when I get the wrong key it's nothing wrong with the game, it's me not knowing what direction I'm facing in the VAB.

The SPH, on the other hand, well let's just say there's a reason I've never made a serious effort at building a spaceplane.

[Red Iron Crown]

I share the frustration with part rotation. I wish there was a mode where you could rotate the part to the desired rotation and it would stay in that orientation no matter where it was placed. I hate when I'm trying to place a part precisely near the top of the stack and it does some crazy dance as it crosses from the side to the top.

For those of you who mod, I've found Editor Extensions to be invaluable for adding useful functionality to the VAB/SPH. More symmetry modes, more angle snap modes, and the best of all: vertical snap. Worth a look if you find the controls in the VAB limiting.