Sub-vessels and action groups

[Yoha]

I know there has been a number of posts about actions groups, but I have not found any discussing how sub-vessels should be handled. However, I have found another post not listed on the Already Suggested List with very interesting ideas. Anyway, here is my remark.

Sub-assembly only stores non-rooted (no first pod) structures while common save only stores rooted vessels. It is quite painful to have to switch between the two depending on what you want to do. In an ideal VAB, here are some examples of what I would like to do:

• develop a satellite/probe/rover by itself, without any launcher
  
• design a part in the SPH and use in the VAB
  
• merge two vessels to be sent already docked/coupled
  
• split an orbital station in several parts for launch
  
• replicate a satellite for multi-launch
  

Some of the issues can be partially solved be tweaking with a dummy pod, but there is more to it. For instance, when I send three identical satellites, I like to prepare action groups for their deployment. However, due to the way KSP handles decoupling, only the last decoupled satellite will correctly and completely execute the action group.

So, in short, the idea is to be able to design parts independently and then merge them with another (e.g. a launcher) without having to worry which one has the root pod.

[aeTIos]

Yes, yes please Subassemblies are sometimes such a PITA. I'm not 100% sure if this is what OP means but I'd like to select the attachable nodes on a subassembly, so that I can put SA's both over and under a node without flipping. This is especially handy when developing payloads.

[UbioZur]

Sub-assembly only stores non-rooted (no first pod) structures

False, Drop a pod to the sub assembly and it will work like a charm. Sub assembly can be saved only if the root part of the sub assembly have a free node. (else it cannot be attached to anything, since the game does not consider surface attach for it).

while common save only stores rooted vessels.

considering the root is the first part on the tree where all the other parts are attached you need a root for sub assembly and vessel.

develop a satellite/probe/rover by itself, without any launcher

Can already be done. You just need to plan in advance where you want it to be attached to any future launcher/plane.

design a part in the SPH and use in the VAB

Can already be done as a sub-assembly. Again make sure you plan where you want to attach it to.

merge two vessels to be sent already docked/coupled

Vessel does not require to have free stack node, so how do yo merge two vessel where one don't have any stack node? This is why having sub-assembly (which force to have a free node) come to place.

split an orbital station in several parts for launch

Can already be done. Again just require planning for the node.

replicate a satellite for multi-launch

Alt-click, load a nex sub-assembly or even just relauch the vessel (if by multi launch you mean several launch of the same vessel)

Some of the issues can be partially solved be tweaking with a dummy pod, but there is more to it. For instance, when I send three identical satellites, I like to prepare action groups for their deployment. However, due to the way KSP handles decoupling, only the last decoupled satellite will correctly and completely execute the action group.

I don't see how you come from a dummy pod to action group, none of the 'issues' before are issues, they are just matter of planning.

For the action group, I agree some re-work on them could be done, at the moment I could offer you to use Action group manager, to complete the functionality that are missing in the stock game.

So, in short, the idea is to be able to design parts independently and then merge them with another (e.g. a launcher) without having to worry which one has the root pod.

Don't confuse root pod and root part. You can create anything without a pod (or probe), but since ksp save vessel/sub-assembly as a tree, you have to plan where you want your model to be attach and make sure it is at the top of the tree.

It has been already discussed to change the way the vessel are stored (not using a tree), it has it's pros and cons. I could also advice you SelectRoot mod, to allow you to choose which root you want after you made your design.

[Kasuha]

Subassemblies don't have to have a free attachment node. You can have surface-mountable subassemblies too. The only constraint is that you have to build them as such. See the album below.

Building a subassembly attached to some placeholder the way you plan it to be attachable in the future is a good idea in any case. For those who can't do that, there's the root select mod.

And yes I agree that all of what's mentioned in the body of the OP is already possible. There's some discrepancy between the thread name and contents, though, because there indeed are problems with staging and action keys of subassemblies/subships within a design. That reminded me of a suggestion I made a while ago.

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