Can't control moon lander on takeoff

[thespiff]

So I made my first Mun landing. Did some science. Now I want to go home. But try as I might, I can't get a controlled takeoff from the Mun. I've got a pretty simple lander...see attached. If I takeoff very slowly and carefully I can get maybe 1000m off the surface before my ship begins an uncontrollable spin. It becomes totally unresponsive to directional controls and it's impossible to thrust away from the mun.

I guess maybe the the issue is that goo pod? But I don't see how aerodynamics matter with no atmosphere. Or maybe my ship is top-heavy?

I've tried with SAS on and off. I've tried retracting the lander legs at various times in my flight. I've tried keeping my velocity as low as possible. I've tried cutting the engines when the spin starts and getting the ship back on course but again, the controls are totally non-responsive as soon as the spin starts. Can anyone explain what is going on here?

[CatastrophicFailure]

As I see no batteries or solar panels, I do believe you're running out of electricity.

[Aphobius]

As you burn fuel the mass of the goo pod becomes more significant and the center of mass moves towards the goo pod. Try to make your rockets symmetrical.

[SpaceSphereOfDeath]

You've run out of power, the reaction wheels won't work with out it. Add solar panels.

[The Destroyer]

You've run out of power, the reaction wheels won't work with out it. Add solar panels.

I don't think its that. If he begins a spin, it means hes running the engine, and the engine has an alternator.

[Temeter]

I don't think its that. If he begins a spin, it means hes running the engine, and the engine has an alternator.

Thought the same and just checked. The LV909 doesn't have an alternator.

It's really electricity. Vector thrust allows you to turn, but can't spin the ship. As soon as the reaction wheels stop working, the imbalance - especially because of the goo container - causes the ship to spin while accelerating. You need solar panels and batteries.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Temeter

[Rarity]

I don't think its that. If he begins a spin, it means hes running the engine, and the engine has an alternator.

Not all engines do, in particular the one on OP's lander. Better prepare a rescue mission! If not for the Kerbal, then for the science!

[Joe32320]

It's likely that the SAS on the craft has been trying to correct the weight imbalance caused by the goo container, and drained your batteries flat.

[sal_vager]

thespif, click on the resource tab in the top right, it will show you your remaining fuel, oxidiser and electric power.

As has been mentioned you are likely out of power and will need to mount a rescue mission to bring Bob home, if you stack two Mk1 pods you can double your power reserves and have a seat for Bob, keep SAS use to a minimum and make sure your craft is balanced and you should be fine.

Of course if you do have batteries, use them!

[Kasuha]

There are two issues together. First is that the ship is unbalanced, and second is that the used engine does not generate electricity.

It is still possible to return with a ship that is completely out of electricity as long as it is balanced. Because that engine has gimbal and you can use it to turn the rocket at minimum thrust. So just adding a symmetric goo pod on the other side would save the situation.

At this stage I would probably try this:

1/ go on EVA and pick data from the Goo pod

2/ quicksave and turn SAS off

3/ retract landing gear

4/ get rid of the goo pod by rolling on surface

5/ quicksave again, point the ship uphill, turn SAS on and launch horizontally, getting off the surface as soon as possible

6/ during return, turn SAS off whenever you don't burn

[SRV Ron]

I don't think its that. If he begins a spin, it means hes running the engine, and the engine has an alternator.

It is definitely a loss of power issue coupled by the unbalanced use of one Goo pod. That unbalance is running the battery dry since the LV-909 has no generator. Try the same flight with a balanced pair of Goo Pods. With proper power management, you should be able to complete the mission without solar panels.

[Claw]

Since the basics have been covered, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it is all Bob's fault to begin with.

He's not as much of a whiner as Bill, but sometimes he forgets and leaves things on. Especially that pesky SAS when parked on a hill. So sometimes the module spends all it's precious electricity while sitting stationary on the slope.

So while that may not help Bob out in his current predicament, perhaps he can take that knowledge forward and turn SAS off after landing unless it's really needed to keep from sliding off a steep hill.

(I'm not sure if you did leave SAS on after you landed, but it will drain your battery pretty fast on the ground.)

[SRV Ron]

One other note. Place the Goo pod pair on the capsule. They have to be safely returned if you want the science points from them.

[SRV Ron]

One other note. Place the Goo pod pair on the capsule. They have to be safely returned if you want the science points from them. A picture with the Resource panel opened would let us confirmed if running out of power is the issue here. SAS is on but it looks like you are not yet landed.

[BudgetHedgehog]

One other note. Place the Goo pod pair on the capsule. They have to be safely returned if you want the science points from them.

Prepare to have your mind blown:

At this stage I would probably try this:

1/ go on EVA and pick data from the Goo pod

Yeah, you don't have to return those goo pods at all.

[cantab]

Yeah, you don't have to return those goo pods at all.

Though note that command pods are limited to one run of each experiment per biome and situation. So if you want to take and use four Goo canisters all on the ground at your landing site - which you'll need to do to get all the science - landing just one command pod back on Kerbin won't cut it.

[thespiff]

Yeah I am definitely out of electricity. I guess now I've learned that electricity is required for steering.

As someone noticed in the pic I am slightly off the surface but that's simply because the screenshot key combo on mac includes the shift key

Is there some way to send a rescue mission with batteries or something to recharge the dead ship for a return flight? Or at this point is recovering my astronaut the best I can do at this point?

[Kasuha]

Just send a rescue mission with two pods. When you get your Kerbal out of the stuck ship, right-click on the pod and all science instruments and choose "take data", then leave the ship where it is. The data will be stored in the pod the Kerbal enters.

When you get the Claw, you can come with a ship, grab your lander and either fly away with it or just recharge it and unclaw. Without Claw, you need a docking port or to use mods (KAS) to join the two ships and transfer resources.

[cantab]

Yeah I am definitely out of electricity. I guess now I've learned that electricity is required for steering.

As someone noticed in the pic I am slightly off the surface but that's simply because the screenshot key combo on mac includes the shift key

KSP's own screenshot key is F1. The shots will be saved in the game's installation directory, but you can put a shortcut somewhere more convenient of course. Also, you can right-click an engine and shut it down, to prevent accidental throttle-ups like you had.