2001: A Space Odyssey Sucks

[lajoswinkler]

Giant radiators were actually a point of dispute between Kubrick and Clarke. Clarke insisted on them for realism, Kubrick hated the way they made the Discovery look (the radiators dwarfed the ship itself).

That's interesting. I did not know that.

I think it tarnished a bit the image of Kubrick I had. Not that I thought he was perfect, but I'd love the radiators.

[Dodgey]

If they remade it I don't think they should out right cut anything. They should move the first scene to the end, and shorten the trip to The Moon. Use that extra time to display humanity's scientific accomplishments in great detail. The great leaps and bounds such as the first government ect. I'm not sure whether to keep the cold war going. It played a roll in 2010 but not so much in 2001. Not to mention it was still very relevant at the time the movie was released.

Apart from that keep it mostly the same, update the tech and the CGI bit keep it mostly true.

[KerbMav]

I'm not sure whether to keep the cold war going.

Rivalling corporations engaged in patent law suits?

[lajoswinkler]

If they remade it I don't think they should out right cut anything. They should move the first scene to the end, and shorten the trip to The Moon. Use that extra time to display humanity's scientific accomplishments in great detail. The great leaps and bounds such as the first government ect. I'm not sure whether to keep the cold war going. It played a roll in 2010 but not so much in 2001. Not to mention it was still very relevant at the time the movie was released.

Apart from that keep it mostly the same, update the tech and the CGI bit keep it mostly true.

Putting the apes at the end? But the whole point of the movie is to show progress. The start was very, very slow and iconic. It's an integral, vital part of the scenario.

[IcarusBen]

My main reasoning behind them cutting out acts 1 and 2 is to increase the mystery and suspense. We know about TMA-1, but Bowman doesn't. Wouldn't it be better if we learned everything alongside Bowman?

If they were strapped for time, they could show the ENTIRE journey, from drydock to Jupiter. Heck, they could even take TMA-2 and place it further out; Saturn, Uranus, I don't think Neptune's gotten any attention from filmmakers.

[lajoswinkler]

My main reasoning behind them cutting out acts 1 and 2 is to increase the mystery and suspense. We know about TMA-1, but Bowman doesn't. Wouldn't it be better if we learned everything alongside Bowman?

If they were strapped for time, they could show the ENTIRE journey, from drydock to Jupiter. Heck, they could even take TMA-2 and place it further out; Saturn, Uranus, I don't think Neptune's gotten any attention from filmmakers.

Sorry, but I don't see how removing the dawn of the humanity would serve a purpose. It's interesting.

We don't find out anything about the monolith from that scene. It's a black block and the apes go mad near it.

Neptune was featured in this movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_Horizon_(film)

[EdFred]

Sorry, but I don't see how removing the dawn of the humanity would serve a purpose. It's interesting.

We don't find out anything about the monolith from that scene. It's a black block and the apes go mad near it.

The assumption - or at least the one I made - is that after the monolith they discovered (were given?) the ability to develop tools. The monolith pushes us to the next step in our evolution. How? Who knows, but that's my take on it. No monolith - no dawn of man.

[Red Iron Crown]

The assumption - or at least the one I made - is that after the monolith they discovered (were given?) the ability to develop tools. The monolith pushes us to the next step in our evolution. How? Who knows, but that's my take on it. No monolith - no dawn of man.

That was my take on it, too. Contact with the monolith made something click in the primeval man's head, and he started experimenting with the thigh bone. The scene where he throws it into the air and it turns into a satellite shows the progression from primitive tools to modern ones.

[the_bT]

I've followed this discussion since it started. I refrained from posting because I had seen the movie just once and that was a couple of years back. However, I did not remember it to be boring at all. Turns out its stream it is but one Google search away, so I just watched it again.

To me the movie made it pretty clear from the beginning and throughout that the main focus is the black monolith. It is a collection of three stories that revolve around a monolith each. The stories are not connected much beyond that and don't need to be. The first and last monolith induce a significant step forward for those who dare to reach for it. The second points to the third as a test of ability, that's a bit uneven but I don't mind.

Why the AI goes mad I didn't completely understand. It certainly is connected to it having the information about the monolith and its primary function/reason to be being to serve mission, ship and crew. Then again, how could anyone know exactly why someone else goes mad? The fact that this is no different for an AI might be to underline its not that different from a non-artificial sentient being.

It's always kind of strange in other movies when the very advanced AI more capable than even the brightest mind goes full ****** and some geek shows up to explain to everybody that the reason is some sort of logical fallacy in its programming. Very advanced AI indeed.

[pxi]

Why the AI goes mad I didn't completely understand.

HAL was given orders that came into conflict. HAL reasoned that killing the crew was the only way to proceed with the mission. It was a logical decision, not madness.

[H2O.]

Why the AI goes mad I didn't completely understand.

Isn't that the very definition of madness ?

[vger]

Putting the apes at the end? But the whole point of the movie is to show progress. The start was very, very slow and iconic. It's an integral, vital part of the scenario.

I feel it would have had even more dramatic effect if it had been included in the "LSD trip."

The revelation of "what the monolith does" feels like it should be part of the climax of the film, not a prologue. Not that I have a problem with it at the beginning, mind you. It's just not what I would have done if I were making it. "Aliens seeding Earth" was probably a very foreign concept at the time, so it would've been fun to drop that in the laps of the audience after a couple of hours of "What the heck IS this thing?"

Edited June 4, 2014 by vger

[lajoswinkler]

I feel it would have had even more dramatic effect if it had been included in the "LSD trip."

The revelation of "what the monolith does" feels like it should be part of the climax of the film, not a prologue. Not that I have a problem with it at the beginning, mind you. It's just not what I would have done if I were making it. "Aliens seeding Earth" was probably a very foreign concept at the time, so it would've been fun to drop that in the laps of the audience after a couple of hours of "What the heck IS this thing?"

Well, we aren't shown that the monolith really does anything. We can assume, but there is no obvious evidence. The mistery still exists.

HAL was given orders that came into conflict. HAL reasoned that killing the crew was the only way to proceed with the mission. It was a logical decision, not madness.

That was a computer AI error. The mission can't proceed without the crew. If the crew stays alive, HAL9000 gets shut down and the mission is jeopardized. If the crew dies, mission is a complete failure. Therefore it was an error, not a logical decision.

[sal_vager]

Actually lajoswinkler, HAL was capable of completing the mission unaided, and had knowledge of the true purpose of the mission while Pool and Bowman were ignorant of it.

Part of HAL's problem was that keeping the secret from Bowman and Pool triggered a sort of psychosis, as part of his programming was to be truthful, he was essentially told to lie.

[lajoswinkler]

Then what was the purpose of people onboard? I thought the mission was designed for two people minimum, plus HAL9000.

[godefroi]

What I'd really like to see is a compare and contrast with Star Worms II.

Oh, and read the book. At least it's not as boring as the movie... not that it makes any more sense.

[Dodgey]

Putting the apes at the end? But the whole point of the movie is to show progress. The start was very, very slow and iconic. It's an integral, vital part of the scenario.

Yea I agree that it is integral, it's a great part of the scenario, I think that putting it at the end would be a great reveal. There would be a mystery about the monolith thoughout the entire film untill the end where it is revealed what the monolith is.

[Helix935]

Actually lajoswinkler, HAL was capable of completing the mission unaided, and had knowledge of the true purpose of the mission while Pool and Bowman were ignorant of it.

Part of HAL's problem was that keeping the secret from Bowman and Pool triggered a sort of psychosis, as part of his programming was to be truthful, he was essentially told to lie.

actually, the way i see it, it didn't really trigger psychosis in HAL but was in face the only logical decision for HAL to make because he was faced with a conflict involving that of astronauts that were impeding the ability for the mission to continue so HAL had done the only thing he could do. He eliminated the conflict by eliminating its source which existed in the astronauts since he could still perform the mission alone, he doesn't need them if faced with a conflict.

god i hope that i worded that correctly for those of us who are grammar nazis

[vger]

And as this thread continues, examples of why a bunch of us said this is such a great movie. Everyone is now debating different points. The elements that are not handed to us on a silver platter and are left to conjecture, are what allows a story to continue to thrive, long after it's been absorbed.

[Dodgey]

And continue for over 40 years I may add Vegr.

[IcarusBen]

Yeah, I really struck a chord among the forum. 147 replies and counting.

[KerbMav]

HAL was programmed to work with his crew openly and truthfully; the success of a mission has top priority (as always, no?).

He received the order to keep the crew uninformed regarding the real background of the voyage, unable to question his orders or deviate from them like a free human mind could, this created a conflict with his programming.

I am not sure how to take his false prediction of the failing of the comm unit, but lets assume HAL was indeed in error, maybe out of his confusion. His denial afterwards and blaming it on "human error", was then equally an attempt to cover his "mental" situation and also quite the truth, as the human orders were responsible for his struggles.

The crew sensed something was fishy and "conspired" against HAL to shut him down should anything get out of hand, which endangered HAL's ability to complete the mission. Unable to reveal the truth behind his strange behaviour, he could do nothing else but shut down the crew to prevent them from acting against him.

[KSK]

HAL was programmed to work with his crew openly and truthfully; the success of a mission has top priority (as always, no?).

He received the order to keep the crew uninformed regarding the real background of the voyage, unable to question his orders or deviate from them like a free human mind could, this created a conflict with his programming.

I am not sure how to take his false prediction of the failing of the comm unit, but lets assume HAL was indeed in error, maybe out of his confusion. His denial afterwards and blaming it on "human error", was then equally an attempt to cover his "mental" situation and also quite the truth, as the human orders were responsible for his struggles.

The crew sensed something was fishy and "conspired" against HAL to shut him down should anything get out of hand, which endangered HAL's ability to complete the mission. Unable to reveal the truth behind his strange behaviour, he could do nothing else but shut down the crew to prevent them from acting against him.

I always assumed that the antenna breakdown was deliberate sabotage. An easier way out for HAL than killing the crew. Murder was the option of last resort.

Also, I disagree about putting the apes at the end. I see the point about using them as a reveal for the purpose behind the Monoliths but I'm not sure a reveal is needed. Even if we know from the beginning that the Monolith was responsible for kickstarting human evolution (possibly even the reason why the apemen didn't die out), we don't know why they did it or why they chose to do it by turning the apemen into hunters.

The book goes into a bit more detail but not the film.

[KSK]

HAL was given orders that came into conflict. HAL reasoned that killing the crew was the only way to proceed with the mission. It was a logical decision, not madness.

On a slightly more meta note, I always figured the part with HAL (apart from a chance to actually put a little dialogue and recognisable plot into the film) was to make the point that even tools that Man creates, he does not fully understand. Given that, how can he hope to understand himself, let alone the Monoliths.

[Red Iron Crown]

I always assumed that the antenna breakdown was deliberate sabotage. An easier way out for HAL than killing the crew. Murder was the option of last resort.

I don't think the antenna actually failed. When Bowman and Poole test the recovered antenna unit, it passes their checks. I interpreted the anomaly as a ruse HAL used to get one of the astronauts outside the Discovery alone where he could dispose of him.