Stockalike RF Engine Configs v3.2.6 [01/20/19][RF v12]

[Shad0wCatcher]

Another question if I may. I found the blanket change for jets from liquid fuel to kerosene (which really borks some mods btw that don't yet have RF integration [example KSO's phase 4 vehicles]). Where's the blanket change for rockets? (This also seriously breaks mods like LazTek and Tantares as I don't have the time or inclination currently to go through and add RF capability to all its tanks and the capsules). I ran a quick search through the stockalike searching for some keywords (namely HAS and @part[*]) but couldn't find anything of the sort that would be indicative of a blanket.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Shad0wCatcher
forgot another parenthesis

[Raptor831]

Another question if I may. I found the blanket change for jets from liquid fuel to kerosene (which really borks some mods btw that don't yet have RF integration [example KSO's phase 4 vehicles]). Where's the blanket change for rockets? (This also seriously breaks mods like LazTek and Tantares as I don't have the time or inclination currently to go through and add RF capability to all its tanks and the capsules). I ran a quick search through the stockalike searching for some keywords (namely HAS and @part[*]) but couldn't find anything of the sort that would be indicative of a blanket.

The latest version (I think) should set all engines (rockets or jets) that aren't set up for RF to use kerosene and LOX instead of LiquidFuel and Oxidizer. The Jet_modularEngines.cfg does this. It was originally just for jets, and I just didn't change the name of the file when I included the rest. The tanks are a different story, since tanks aren't really in the scope of these configs. There is a KSOS config in this thread (found here), if you want to drop that in.

In addition, the RCS configs (which are now rolled into the main release) contain a blanket switch from MonoPropellant to Hydrazine for any tank, which will catch any pods. That'll fix the LazTek pod (IIRC). That's the Mono_to_Hydrazine.cfg file.

[aristurtle]

Nice! Went through the config again, and it looks great. If you'd be willing, I'd like to incorporate those into this config (with due credit of course). Alternatively, if you'd rather keep it all together, I can post a link to your config in the OP.

Just noticed this now. Feel free to include it!

[Shad0wCatcher]

@Raptor yea I'm an idiot. Looked at the config again after I posted and forgot to edit my post with my idiotic conclusion lol. I'm honestly not worried about the tanks (obviously outside of scope; and I have completed a few configs; just not sure if I want to change basemass on some of 'em or not [kommitz's octotrusses; not sure how heavy that bar / circle stock steel girder setup is; also masses are drastically different {1 ton to 10 tons different}]) before tossing 'em to NathanKell for approval.

[Raptor831]

Just noticed this now. Feel free to include it!

Cool, thanks! I'll add these in the next release.

@Raptor yea I'm an idiot. Looked at the config again after I posted and forgot to edit my post with my idiotic conclusion lol. I'm honestly not worried about the tanks (obviously outside of scope; and I have completed a few configs; just not sure if I want to change basemass on some of 'em or not [kommitz's octotrusses; not sure how heavy that bar / circle stock steel girder setup is; also masses are drastically different {1 ton to 10 tons different}]) before tossing 'em to NathanKell for approval.

Well, funny enough, I just posted a pull request for a few tank configs I had made for myself. Didn't really think of that basemass property at the time. Ah, well, those can be changed, I presume.

And I probably should change the name of that file to be more descriptive.

[Raptor831]

Updated release. Link is in the OP. This is more just a reorganization to GitHub as opposed to randomly putting up files on my sharing service. But, for those of you using the B9 v5 prerelease, you'll have the RCS working with RF. There are a lot of tanks to manage for that though, so be prepared.

[Captain_Party]

Are you going to integrate blackheart's stockalike aeronautics pack?

[Raptor831]

Are you going to integrate blackheart's stockalike aeronautics pack?

I sure will, now that I know about them.

[dreadicon]

Seeing as B9 v5 is now in official release, Any chance that you could update the B9 config to include their tanks? Much appreciated! My infinite thanks to you for keeping this up to date!

[The Pink Ranger]

All the b9 components that can carry fuel seem to have the "FSFuelSwitch" module. Haven't tried it yet but I think you could write a blanket patch to remove it from all parts and then you'd have to go through and add a Real Fuels module to every tank one by one with individual volumes. Anyway do stock units for liquid fuel and oxidizer = real fuels liters?

Edit: Never mind that last part, going off the stock tanks it seems 1 stock unit of volume = 5 real fuels liters.

Edited September 2, 2014 by The Pink Ranger

[NathanKell]

dreadicon: RF itself handles tanks. I have been away until today; I will be updating RF and DRE for B9 as soon as I can.

[Raptor831]

RE: B9 v5

Yes, the config will be updated to support the new B9. Although, as far as engines go, there wasn't much change. The tanks are quite the different story, and I do have a config I'm planning on submitting a pull request for. There are a few missing pieces at the moment I'd like to catch yet.

For that, I basically removed the FSFuelSwitcher and added appropriate tanks, and left the skin/mesh switcher alone.

[NathanKell]

I do have a config I'm planning on submitting a pull request for. There are a few missing pieces at the moment I'd like to catch yet.

Oh? I'm sitting down to do them today, but I don't want to duplicate effort...

[Raptor831]

Oh? I'm sitting down to do them today, but I don't want to duplicate effort...

I'll do that when I get home. There are probably less than half-a-dozen parts that I lack, so it's not worth the effort. Most of those are adapters that the original config didn't have.

[The Pink Ranger]

Man you guys are champs. I got through maybe a quarter of them and had to stop because it was SOOO tedious. Seriously, it felt like one of those repetitive and annoying problem sets.

[dreadicon]

Sweet! You guys are awesome!

I took a brief crack at writing them up myself, but I got a bit frustrated and started trying some things like dynamic fuel quantity generation based on node parameters, hehe. Module Manager is powerful, but not quite that powerful (afaik, it cant reference values outside the scope of the module it's working on).

A random questions, do you use the MONxx fuels (Mixed Oxides of Nitrogen) in these configs?

Edited September 3, 2014 by dreadicon

[Raptor831]

Man you guys are champs. I got through maybe a quarter of them and had to stop because it was SOOO tedious. Seriously, it felt like one of those repetitive and annoying problem sets.

I'm just stubborn, and I don't like stuff not working properly with my mods. It was tedious, but I've done enough of those tanks that it's copy/paste/edit without too much trouble.

Sweet! You guys are awesome!

I took a brief crack at writing them up myself, but I got a bit frustrated and started trying some things like dynamic fuel quantity generation based on node parameters, hehe. Module Manager is powerful, but not quite that powerful (afaik, it cant reference values outside the scope of the module it's working on).

A random questions, do you use the MONxx fuels (Mixed Oxides of Nitrogen) in these configs?

As of right now, I don't use any MONxx fuels in the config. I can't get good information on who uses what version, and I don't want to just randomly replace N2O4 with MON3. It'd be basically the same fuel mix, but I like to find some hard numbers before I use it. And it's especially hard since any MONxx is basically N2O4, to the point that Encyclopedia Astronautica uses them interchangeably and Wikipedia has only 1 reference to MON (for the PSLV) that I ever found. If you find some data on what MONxx any specific engines are using, point me in that direction.

That said, I may not use them at all, since it is basically N2O4 for all practical purposes. Just seems a bit too much complexity for a stock-alike venture. Even if this is Real Fuels.

[dreadicon]

I see. I'll probably just write up an MM config to remove them for now for myself; just cluttering my Fuels list at this point. I kinda agree, there are already a couple fuels which don't seem to serve a purpose beyond squeezing that extra 3% ISP or Thrust for your needs. This sounds like it would be needlessly complicated without some kind of procedural engine mod where you have to pick all the parameters of the engine. Thanks for up-keeping these! not the most glamorous work, but it's what keeps the mods going!

[TheDamDog]

FASA's RCS thrusters don't seem to like the change to hydrazine. None of them seem to be working (for me.)

EDIT:

Further investigation at times not 3am indicates that it simply isn't accepting the conversion to hydrazine. If you load up a tank of vanilla monopropellant, they work just fine.

The only problem is, the pods have all converted their fuel stores to hydrazine...

Is there some way to remove the conversion effect? Much as I like the realistic monopropellants, not being able to steer my early FASA pods is a bit more challenge than I like

Edited September 4, 2014 by TheDamDog

[dreadicon]

Oh! You wouldn't happen to consider adding Near Future Technologies and/or Interstellar(Lite or otherwise) to your supported configs, would you? Someone has already done a lot of the grunt work for Near Future; his numbers could just use a second set of eyes and such. His post is Here. Obviously should probably ask him for permission, but I don't see why he would object. I've been using them myself, and aside from some issues with tweakscale having strange results for tank volumes and some other small oddities, it seems quite effective.

[Raptor831]

FASA's RCS thrusters don't seem to like the change to hydrazine. None of them seem to be working (for me.)

EDIT:

Further investigation at times not 3am indicates that it simply isn't accepting the conversion to hydrazine. If you load up a tank of vanilla monopropellant, they work just fine.

The only problem is, the pods have all converted their fuel stores to hydrazine...

Is there some way to remove the conversion effect? Much as I like the realistic monopropellants, not being able to steer my early FASA pods is a bit more challenge than I like

That's probably because I left those out of the RCS config. Not intentionally. Just so many parts to make sure of! The Mono_to_Hydrazine.cfg is what's making everything switch from Monopropellant to Hydrazine, so if you drop that you won't get the auto-conversion. That said, if you want to download the latest version of that file from GitHub (https://github.com/Raptor831/RFStockalike/blob/master/GameData/RealFuels/Mono_to_Hydrazine.cfg) that should at least catch anything that I missed. I made a MM error in the last release that wasn't grabbing the ModuleRCS parts. Will be updated with the next release either way.

Oh! You wouldn't happen to consider adding Near Future Technologies and/or Interstellar(Lite or otherwise) to your supported configs, would you? Someone has already done a lot of the grunt work for Near Future; his numbers could just use a second set of eyes and such. His post is Here. Obviously should probably ask him for permission, but I don't see why he would object. I've been using them myself, and aside from some issues with tweakscale having strange results for tank volumes and some other small oddities, it seems quite effective.

As Nathan said, RF will handle the tanks. Those configs are currently bundled with RF. I did submit a pull request with NFT Structural tanks taken care of. Honestly the best way to take care of that is to either submit a pull request in the RF/MFT repository, or get the mod authors to include a copy of the tank config (with :NEEDS[RealFuels] attached to each call to ensure it doesn't load unless it needs to). The tanks are easy to set up to, just multiply the total of LF + Ox by 5. That's your volume, and just set up an appropriate tank type. Usually that's enough.

And Tweakscale and RF are having some issues together, but Nathan mentioned elsewhere that they'll be looked into for the next release.

[TheDamDog]

Gratse! I shall do that.

[dreadicon]

@Raptor, I was mostly referring to the engines for NFT; from the draft config notes:

"- Changed the NearFuture engines that used LiquidHydrogen to use LiquidH2 instead

- Rebalanced all ElectricCharge consumption rates to match the new fuel densities -- should have the same EC per second that they had before.

- Added RealFuels engine configuration for the chemical engine in the NearFuture Spacecraft pack -- it uses MMH and N2O4, like the real-life Space Shuttle OMS thrusters. (One would hope that in the "near future" we'll find hypergolic propellants that aren't ridiculously toxic, but there's no sign of them yet, so...)"

Still, it's your prerogative. For now I have no problem pulling from the forum post; would just be convenient to have it rolled into one pack

I probably should see about a pull request to add Argon though....

Oh! and I wanted to ask about MethaLOx fuels; any chance they could be included at some point? Specifically because of the Sabatier process that some Aerospace organizations have been investigating. I personally am looking to use LqdMethane as an RCS propellant, replenished by a Sabatier Reactor. That way I would only take food and water to sustain my RCS fuel over a long voyage Also would be a great way to make fuel and air on Duna with less Kerbalized resource reliance (magical Kethane/Karbonite).

[Raptor831]

@Raptor, I was mostly referring to the engines for NFT; from the draft config notes:

"- Changed the NearFuture engines that used LiquidHydrogen to use LiquidH2 instead

- Rebalanced all ElectricCharge consumption rates to match the new fuel densities -- should have the same EC per second that they had before.

- Added RealFuels engine configuration for the chemical engine in the NearFuture Spacecraft pack -- it uses MMH and N2O4, like the real-life Space Shuttle OMS thrusters. (One would hope that in the "near future" we'll find hypergolic propellants that aren't ridiculously toxic, but there's no sign of them yet, so...)"

Still, it's your prerogative. For now I have no problem pulling from the forum post; would just be convenient to have it rolled into one pack

I probably should see about a pull request to add Argon though....

Oh! and I wanted to ask about MethaLOx fuels; any chance they could be included at some point? Specifically because of the Sabatier process that some Aerospace organizations have been investigating. I personally am looking to use LqdMethane as an RCS propellant, replenished by a Sabatier Reactor. That way I would only take food and water to sustain my RCS fuel over a long voyage Also would be a great way to make fuel and air on Duna with less Kerbalized resource reliance (magical Kethane/Karbonite).

Ah, I see. At this point, as long as the RealFuels configs don't change the physical size of the engines, I'm content to let them be contained within that mod. There's only one chemical engine to worry about, and the rest are dealt with in Nertea's plugins anyway.

Also, I think aristurtle's configs may be included with RF now. At least the tanks anyway.

As for methane fuels, it actually is already in the configs (IIRC). If they aren't, they'll be in the next release anyway (as they're in my personal configs!). But these are for regular engines, not RCS. I don't think methalox is hypergolic, so it'd be a bad mixture for any RCS system. Doesn't stop you from adding it in, though!

[dreadicon]

Ah, I see. At this point, as long as the RealFuels configs don't change the physical size of the engines, I'm content to let them be contained within that mod. There's only one chemical engine to worry about, and the rest are dealt with in Nertea's plugins anyway.

Also, I think aristurtle's configs may be included with RF now. At least the tanks anyway.

As for methane fuels, it actually is already in the configs (IIRC). If they aren't, they'll be in the next release anyway (as they're in my personal configs!). But these are for regular engines, not RCS. I don't think methalox is hypergolic, so it'd be a bad mixture for any RCS system. Doesn't stop you from adding it in, though!

I see, I suppose that is the most sensible solution for NFT. I will go bug the NFT thread about it then

Concerning Methane RCS, there's been substantial successful research into it by NASA, it would seem. See here and here.

Oxygen could be contained in a water state, and then electrolyzed as needed into oxygen gas. This has the double benefit of providing hydrogen for the sabatier process. If a liquid state is absolutely necessary, a phase converter can be used. I know gas->liquid is power intensive, but I plan to use this on an ion propulsion craft, where I have plenty of renewable power generation. (nuclear, solar, or otherwise) I ended up throwing together a simple MM config for it, but I have no idea if the config is balanced.

I made up a very basic diagram outlining the system(EDIT: I am aware the Sabatier reaction is wrong, but the net result is the same, more or less):

As mentioned, the whole point of the system is to bring only water, food, and Argon, for a craft with the ability to land on anything around the mass of the mun or less, and total dV in vacuum in the 5-6 digit range. So far prototypes are proving very successful.

Edited October 18, 2014 by dreadicon
More Methane RCS research sources