Stockalike RF Engine Configs v3.2.6 [01/20/19][RF v12]

[X10Z]

Since fixed, I am using Kerbin 6.4k now. Although it was kind of nice when I could get to orbit on 2 srbs...

[blowfish]

Hey Raptor, would you mind sharing the formulas for thrust, Isp, mass, heat, cost, etc that you use in the config generator? I've been trying to parse them out of the Excel table, but it's quite difficult to read large formulas from Excel...

[Raptor831]

Hey Raptor, would you mind sharing the formulas for thrust, Isp, mass, heat, cost, etc that you use in the config generator? I've been trying to parse them out of the Excel table, but it's quite difficult to read large formulas from Excel...

You are not kidding about those formulas... I rewrote them in Javascript for the generator, so if you're comfortable with that, the link for the file is here: click me!

There are some tweaks to the formulas (like the full-flow staged combustion modifiers), but most come directly from the original spreadsheet. They also aren't that much easier to read, but it is a bit better than the Excel formulas. If there's one specific formula or set, I can probably get them into a written formula so they're a bit easier to read.

Also, I didn't come up with these originally. They were just in the original sheet from NathanKell that Chestburster used to make the stockalike version. I can't say for sure who came up with those, but I know it was essentially taking a bunch of real engines and fitting them to a curve using all of the base data (thrust, mass, Isp, fuel/propellant mix, etc). Then the tech levels adjust the curve as needed.

[blowfish]

You are not kidding about those formulas... I rewrote them in Javascript for the generator, so if you're comfortable with that, the link for the file is here: click me!

There are some tweaks to the formulas (like the full-flow staged combustion modifiers), but most come directly from the original spreadsheet. They also aren't that much easier to read, but it is a bit better than the Excel formulas. If there's one specific formula or set, I can probably get them into a written formula so they're a bit easier to read.

Also, I didn't come up with these originally. They were just in the original sheet from NathanKell that Chestburster used to make the stockalike version. I can't say for sure who came up with those, but I know it was essentially taking a bunch of real engines and fitting them to a curve using all of the base data (thrust, mass, Isp, fuel/propellant mix, etc). Then the tech levels adjust the curve as needed.

That definitely helps! NathanKell walked me through some of the excel calcs yesterday but it's much easier to follow in Javascript. Thanks

[Raptor831]

That definitely helps! NathanKell walked me through some of the excel calcs yesterday but it's much easier to follow in Javascript. Thanks

Glad it helped. I really should put the generator on GitHub. The whole thing uses WordPress with a dash of Angular thrown in for the real-time updates to the config.

[Sovek]

Raptor, Is there any chance you could make some configs for the Arcjet thrusters in RLA. I'm crap when it comes to figuring out how programming works. I'm guessing they should use Hydrazine, but there are other propellants out there.

[Raptor831]

Raptor, Is there any chance you could make some configs for the Arcjet thrusters in RLA. I'm crap when it comes to figuring out how programming works. I'm guessing they should use Hydrazine, but there are other propellants out there.

There a couple snags with me doing that. I can't keep up with the number of engines in the system as it is (it's around 300 at the moment), so most of them are running through the generator. But, I don't have any templates to run the electric engines through. So, any of the arcjets, resistojets, ion engines, etc, have to be done somewhat by hand. Added to that, I just have no clue what the specs should look like for electric engines. And even further, electric engines generally like to have really long burn times (i.e. days), which KSP doesn't handle well (if at all).

After saying all that, I'm gonna try and figure this one out, because it's a bit of a hole in the system. I mean, it won't be hard to write up a config for the RLA resistojet; it'll be a bit harder to get, say, a working model on the level of the chemical engines that we have in the spreadsheets/generator for electric type engines.

[ebigunso]

So with the new engines added in 1.0.5, I hope you're making configs for those too. Maybe push those alone out so you don't have to delay it too much, with so many other planned features you seem to be working on.

[Raptor831]

Yeah, I'll try and get some updated configs out this weekend maybe. I know I've been rather incognito lately, so I apologize for the severe lack of updates/changes. Unfortunately, RL doesn't seem to allow much extra time these days. I'm also doing some updating to the generator, which is work that takes a bunch of time but doesn't get much visibly done.

Thanks again, everyone, for the help and support! Glad people enjoy it.

[Whovian]

Sorry, quick bug reporty thing. I'm getting the following crash with Tantares.

*RFMEC* ERROR Can't find configuration Hydrazine, falling back to first tech-available config.

(Filename: /Users/builduser/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/MacStandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at RealFuels.TechLevels.TechLevel.CanTL (.ConfigNode cfg, .ConfigNode mod, System.String type, Int32 level) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RealFuels.ModuleEngineConfigs.SetConfiguration (System.String newConfiguration, Boolean resetTechLevels) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RealFuels.ModuleEngineConfigs.OnLoad (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartModule.Load (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part.AddModule (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader.ParsePart (.UrlConfig urlConfig, .ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader+.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

EDIT: Sorry, left out a critical bit. As far as I can tell the problem's with the part Tantares/Parts/ATV/_Capella_Engine_A.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Whovian

[Starwaster]

Sorry, quick bug reporty thing. I'm getting the following crash with Tantares.

*RFMEC* ERROR Can't find configuration Hydrazine, falling back to first tech-available config.

(Filename: /Users/builduser/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/MacStandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at RealFuels.TechLevels.TechLevel.CanTL (.ConfigNode cfg, .ConfigNode mod, System.String type, Int32 level) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RealFuels.ModuleEngineConfigs.SetConfiguration (System.String newConfiguration, Boolean resetTechLevels) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RealFuels.ModuleEngineConfigs.OnLoad (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartModule.Load (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part.AddModule (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader.ParsePart (.UrlConfig urlConfig, .ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader+.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

EDIT: Sorry, left out a critical bit. As far as I can tell the problem's with the part Tantares/Parts/ATV/_Capella_Engine_A.

Somebody needs to download an update for Real Fuels. Either RF 10.7.2 if you're still using KSP 1.0.4 or RF 10.8.0 if you're using KSP 1.0.5

That's just to stop the crashing. There is another underlying cause, which is that this mod and Tantares are both adding ModuleEngineConfigs.

Raptor, you should check for the existence of ModuleEngineConfigs and append to it instead of adding a new one. (multiple MEC is possible but requires properly IDed engines to be configured properly - and I get the feeling that the multiple MEC was accidental and not deliberate)

Edited November 13, 2015 by Starwaster

[fallout2077]

Hey Raptor... I seem to be having an issue with your stockalike RF configs. During startup of KSP, loading hangs as soon as it reaches parts from mods that are modified by your RF configs. I figured that your configs were the culprit as the game starts up perfectly without your configs installed, but as soon as your configs are placed into the GameData folder, I see the issue described above. I will post my KSP.log file with this post. I thank you for your contribution to the community, and if you could provide a down and dirty fix (aside from deleting the parts mods affected by your configs), that would be great; otherwise, I hope that this report will help you in the development of your configs for KSP 1.0.5 and Real Fuels. Have a great night (or day)!

Log file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7n1raxx70j8t2j4/KSPlog.zip?dl=0

[blowfish]

Hey Raptor... I seem to be having an issue with your stockalike RF configs. During startup of KSP, loading hangs as soon as it reaches parts from mods that are modified by your RF configs. I figured that your configs were the culprit as the game starts up perfectly without your configs installed, but as soon as your configs are placed into the GameData folder, I see the issue described above. I will post my KSP.log file with this post. I thank you for your contribution to the community, and if you could provide a down and dirty fix (aside from deleting the parts mods affected by your configs), that would be great; otherwise, I hope that this report will help you in the development of your configs for KSP 1.0.5 and Real Fuels. Have a great night (or day)!

Log file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7n1raxx70j8t2j4/KSPlog.zip?dl=0

RealFuels has not been updated for 1.0.5, and this is the root cause. Be patient

[fallout2077]

RealFuels has not been updated for 1.0.5, and this is the root cause. Be patient

Starwaster has released version 10.8 of RF for KSP 1.0.5. Granted, it is a pre-release, but technically RF has been updated for 1.0.5

[blowfish]

Starwaster has released version 10.8 of RF for KSP 1.0.5. Granted, it is a pre-release, but technically RF has been updated for 1.0.5

I'm not sure what Starwaster was doing then. SolverEngines, which RF depends on, has most certainly not been updated.

[fallout2077]

I'm not sure what Starwaster was doing then. SolverEngines, which RF depends on, has most certainly not been updated.

Is SolverEngines the culprit, then? I've been keeping my eyes open for all of RF's dependencies, hoping to see one of them update. Thus far, Interstellar Fuel Switch seems to be the only dependency that has updated. Thanks for the heads-up, Raptor!

Edited November 14, 2015 by fallout2077

[Raptor831]

Is SolverEngines the culprit, then? I've been keeping my eyes open for all of RF's dependencies, hoping to see one of them update. Thus far, Interstellar Fuel Switch seems to be the only dependency that has updated. Thanks for the heads-up, Raptor!

Well, thank blowfish first. Also, I don't remember IFS playing nice with RF...

Somebody needs to download an update for Real Fuels. Either RF 10.7.2 if you're still using KSP 1.0.4 or RF 10.8.0 if you're using KSP 1.0.5

That's just to stop the crashing. There is another underlying cause, which is that this mod and Tantares are both adding ModuleEngineConfigs.

Raptor, you should check for the existence of ModuleEngineConfigs and append to it instead of adding a new one. (multiple MEC is possible but requires properly IDed engines to be configured properly - and I get the feeling that the multiple MEC was accidental and not deliberate)

No, not intentional. I'll look at it but Tantares also has its own RF config bundled. So could be either.

[fallout2077]

Well, thank blowfish first. Also, I don't remember IFS playing nice with RF...

Doesn't Real Fuels depend on IFS for, well, switching between all of the different fuels? Or did Starwaster integrate his own code to perform fuel switching?

[blowfish]

Doesn't Real Fuels depend on IFS for, well, switching between all of the different fuels? Or did Starwaster integrate his own code to perform fuel switching?

RF has always done its own fuel switching.

[fallout2077]

RF has always done its own fuel switching.

Wow, I did not know that. Now, in your humble opinion, if I install another mod that requires IFS, should I not use that mod, seeing as how RF is a bit finnicky in regards to IFS?

[blowfish]

Wow, I did not know that. Now, in your humble opinion, if I install another mod that requires IFS, should I not use that mod, seeing as how RF is a bit finnicky in regards to IFS?

Depends on the mod. A proper config setup will either not install the IFS modules, or remove them, in the presence of RF. But there are a lot of errors around in this regard.

[Starwaster]

Wow, I did not know that. Now, in your humble opinion, if I install another mod that requires IFS, should I not use that mod, seeing as how RF is a bit finnicky in regards to IFS?

I know I shouldn't be, but I can't help being a little irked here. Not your fault, you probably haven't been around long enough to know, but Real Fuels (née Modular Fuel Tanks) predates IFS by quite a long time. RF certainly does not have any dependency on IFS. And AFAIK, IFS was coded with little regard and no attempt at integration with RF (which, again, predates it by a good two years)

Modular Fuel Tanks was even around before either Nathan or I became involved with it. (before I even joined in fact). It is (like Module Manager) the brainchild of Ialdabaoth and it had its birth here in this thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/27915-Who-wants-to-test-a-plugin-powered-Modular-Engine-and-Fuel-Tank-system

Eventually Modular Fuel Tanks became Modular Fuel Systems with Real Fuels being an optional set of Module Manager configs that were zipped up inside the MFS download file.

(for those interested in MOAR history: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/31706-0-20-Modular-Fuel-System-1-3-realistic-fuels-reconfigurable-fuel-tanks-and-engines)

[Raptor831]

Wow, I did not know that. Now, in your humble opinion, if I install another mod that requires IFS, should I not use that mod, seeing as how RF is a bit finnicky in regards to IFS?

I've found that you can use mods that make use of IFS only if you remove IFS functionality. As Starwaster implied, IFS tends to stomp all over RF/MFT settings and the two don't get along. If you want to spend some time making MM patches to get them to play nice, it should work, but YMMV. It'll also probably take a lot of time.

In practice, though, they're effectively mutually exclusive. Parts packs tend to be mod agnostic (at least the good ones), in that they'll use whichever you have installed.

[fallout2077]

In reply to Starwaster, I got into KSP around version .23, but didn't hear about RF until version 1.0 of KSP was released. So, I know very little of RF's history (until Starwaster's lesson, which I appreciate him providing to me). For some reason I just thought that RF used IFS, which I apologize for ignorantly believing.

And in response to Raptor, it would seem like quite the task to get RF and a mod that uses IFS to play well together, which means that I'll either be learning something useful soon or just not using the mod that uses IFS.

[Raptor831]

And in response to Raptor, it would seem like quite the task to get RF and a mod that uses IFS to play well together, which means that I'll either be learning something useful soon or just not using the mod that uses IFS.

You know, that's exactly how I ended up maintaining this mod. Wanted RF to work with stock-type stuff, did it for myself, then all of a sudden I'm working on this thing.