Stockalike RF Engine Configs v3.2.6 [01/20/19][RF v12]

[jerb]

Hi, quick question, is the Squad Vernor RCS supported by Stockalike RF Engine Configs? I'm using v2.1.2 through CKAN, and the vernor doesn't seem to support realfuels. I took a look through the github repo and I didn't find a reference to it either, although admittedly I barely know what I'm doing.

[Starwaster]

Hi, quick question, is the Squad Vernor RCS supported by Stockalike RF Engine Configs? I'm using v2.1.2 through CKAN, and the vernor doesn't seem to support realfuels. I took a look through the github repo and I didn't find a reference to it either, although admittedly I barely know what I'm doing.

This is what I'm using:

@PART[vernierEngine]:NEEDS[RealFuels]:FINAL
{
@MODULE[ModuleRCS]:NEEDS[ModuleRCSFX]
{
@name = ModuleRCSFX
}
@MODULE[ModuleRCS]
{
!PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel] {}
!PROPELLANT[Oxidizer] {}
PROPELLANT
{
name = Kerosene
ratio = 0.38
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = LqdOxygen
ratio = 0.620
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
@atmosphereCurve
{
@key,0 = 0 304
@key,1 = 1 265
}
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleEngineConfigs
type = ModuleRCSFX
//thrustRating = //thrusterPower
techLevel = 2
origTechLevel = 2
engineType = O
origMass = 0.01
configuration = Kerosene+LqdOxygen
modded = false
CONFIG
{
name = Kerosene+LqdOxygen
//thrusterPower = 0.445
PROPELLANT
{
name = Kerosene
ratio = 0.38
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = LqdOxygen
ratio = 0.620
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
IspSL = 1
IspV = 1
}
CONFIG
{
name = LqdHydrogen+LqdOxygen
//thrusterPower = 0.445
PROPELLANT
{
name = LqdHydrogen
ratio = 0.72856139
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = LqdOxygen
ratio = 0.27143861
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
IspSL = 1.261
IspV = 1.3
}
CONFIG
{
name = MMH+NTO
//thrusterPower = 0.445
PROPELLANT
{
name = MMH
ratio = 0.437
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = NTO
ratio = 0.563
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
IspSL = 0.953
IspV = 0.952
}
CONFIG
{
name = UDMH+NTO
//thrusterPower = 0.442
PROPELLANT
{
name = UDMH
ratio = 0.413
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = NTO
ratio = 0.587
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
IspSL = 0.95
IspV = 0.943
}
CONFIG
{
name = Aerozine+NTO
//thrusterPower = 0.455
PROPELLANT
{
name = Aerozine50
ratio = 0.502
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = NTO
ratio = 0.498
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
IspSL = 0.963
IspV = 0.955
}
}
}

Raptor, feel free to use this as a base. It covers most of the fuels that a lifter body might use in addition to hypergolic combinations. Its downside is that at the moment it does not modify thruster power by fuel combination as I was being a bit lazy and just wanting a quick fix solution to the problem. Also, it sets flow mode to STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW so that it works out of the box without the cross feed enabler. (I did this with all of the RCS engines for my install)

[jerb]

This is what I'm using:

...

Raptor, feel free to use this as a base. It covers most of the fuels that a lifter body might use in addition to hypergolic combinations. Its downside is that at the moment it does not modify thruster power by fuel combination as I was being a bit lazy and just wanting a quick fix solution to the problem. Also, it sets flow mode to STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW so that it works out of the box without the cross feed enabler. (I did this with all of the RCS engines for my install)

Thanks for that! I'll give it a try.

[SpaceHungryMan]

This is what I'm using:

@PART[vernierEngine]:NEEDS[RealFuels]:FINAL
{
@MODULE[ModuleRCS]:NEEDS[ModuleRCSFX]
{
@name = ModuleRCSFX
}
@MODULE[ModuleRCS]
{
!PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel] {}
!PROPELLANT[Oxidizer] {}
PROPELLANT
{
name = Kerosene
ratio = 0.38
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = LqdOxygen
ratio = 0.620
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
@atmosphereCurve
{
@key,0 = 0 304
@key,1 = 1 265
}
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleEngineConfigs
type = ModuleRCSFX
//thrustRating = //thrusterPower
techLevel = 2
origTechLevel = 2
engineType = O
origMass = 0.01
configuration = Kerosene+LqdOxygen
modded = false
CONFIG
{
name = Kerosene+LqdOxygen
//thrusterPower = 0.445
PROPELLANT
{
name = Kerosene
ratio = 0.38
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = LqdOxygen
ratio = 0.620
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
IspSL = 1
IspV = 1
}
CONFIG
{
name = LqdHydrogen+LqdOxygen
//thrusterPower = 0.445
PROPELLANT
{
name = LqdHydrogen
ratio = 0.72856139
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = LqdOxygen
ratio = 0.27143861
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
IspSL = 1.261
IspV = 1.3
}
CONFIG
{
name = MMH+NTO
//thrusterPower = 0.445
PROPELLANT
{
name = MMH
ratio = 0.437
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = NTO
ratio = 0.563
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
IspSL = 0.953
IspV = 0.952
}
CONFIG
{
name = UDMH+NTO
//thrusterPower = 0.442
PROPELLANT
{
name = UDMH
ratio = 0.413
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = NTO
ratio = 0.587
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
IspSL = 0.95
IspV = 0.943
}
CONFIG
{
name = Aerozine+NTO
//thrusterPower = 0.455
PROPELLANT
{
name = Aerozine50
ratio = 0.502
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = NTO
ratio = 0.498
%flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}
IspSL = 0.963
IspV = 0.955
}
}
}

Raptor, feel free to use this as a base. It covers most of the fuels that a lifter body might use in addition to hypergolic combinations. Its downside is that at the moment it does not modify thruster power by fuel combination as I was being a bit lazy and just wanting a quick fix solution to the problem. Also, it sets flow mode to STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW so that it works out of the box without the cross feed enabler. (I did this with all of the RCS engines for my install)

I was gonna send a pull request up later today anyway so if you don't mind I'll include yours with the bunch. Full credit to you of course.

[Raptor831]

Did I really miss the Vernor engine? Sorry guys. Yeah, SpaceHungryMan if you want to submit the pull request with Starwaster's version of that, it would be great. Thanks jerb for noticing.

[karamazovnew]

I'm going to just go with this for now. I'll try and add something a little less broad later, but it will fix the problem.

And some more good news. I've added SRB thrust curves to the options when we're setting up solid motor mixture configs. So, you should be able to create up to 7 different curves for your SRBs and select them like a fuel mixture in the VAB/SPH. I haven't fully tested this one yet, so if you want to hit the webapp (http://bit.ly/rfstockalike) and run some tests, it'd help out. There are 6 curves (plus the "stock" non-curve) you can choose from. I'd like to thank Felbourn for creating the config-ready data for these curves. For visual reference, curves are here: http://www.braeunig.us/space/pics/fig1-14.gif They should be described within the options, as well. All curves will start at half thrust, and quickly ramp up to full. At the end of the burn, you'll have 1% thrust for the last 1% of your fuel load. So you'll have to stage them away prior to them burning out, but that should make them a bit easier to clear from your craft. The curves are not final, so if you have suggestions, please let me know. EDIT: Err, the curves aren't working at the moment. If you try it, make sure to add "curveResource = SolidFuel". I forgot it in the webapp. It'll be fixed soon, though.

Jawdrop. I've been waiting for these for a looong time I wanted to try them out, but I'm only seeing thrust curves for the first SRB in the config files in the webapp. I can't wait for the new version.

[NathanKell]

Raptor831, would you mind chiming in here?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/91998-0-90-Community-Resource-Pack-0-3-3-2015-01-27?p=1761371&viewfull=1#post1761371

[Raptor831]

Jawdrop. I've been waiting for these for a looong time I wanted to try them out, but I'm only seeing thrust curves for the first SRB in the config files in the webapp. I can't wait for the new version.

I haven't gotten to implement the curves on all of the existing solid motors. There's actually quite a lot in the set, and there are quite a few that I'm not planning on a curve for (i.e. Sepratrons, et al). I was thinking of "defaulting" the current SRBs to the stock "curve", the shuttle-type curve, and the "steady" curve. Most of the other curves would be application specific, and we can fix any solids that need them one by one. Though, if anyone has feedback on that, let me know.

Raptor831, would you mind chiming in here?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/91998-0-90-Community-Resource-Pack-0-3-3-2015-01-27?p=1761371&viewfull=1#post1761371

Made my note in that thread. As such, the default flowmode for all RF resources right now is STACK_PRIORITY_FLOW, correct? So if I were to set up defaults for engines, I would assume it would be that. RCS should be STAGE_PRIORITY_SEARCH for crossfeed purposes anyway.

I was also thinking of doing this in a global MM config to catch all ModuleEngineConfigs nodes and just making sure all PROPELLANT nodes have the proper flowmode. You see any pitfalls with that? I can't think of a single engine that wouldn't use STACK or any reason not to globally define that, but just making sure I'm not missing anything.

[NathanKell]

The only pitfalls to that would be catching ElectricCharge or IntakeAir propellants. (Xenon presumably you're fine with making STACK_PRI). In addition, SolidFuel should probably be left as NO_FLOW, unless you want it grabbing the solid fuel from other motors.

[karamazovnew]

I haven't gotten to implement the curves on all of the existing solid motors. There's actually quite a lot in the set, and there are quite a few that I'm not planning on a curve for (i.e. Sepratrons, et al). I was thinking of "defaulting" the current SRBs to the stock "curve", the shuttle-type curve, and the "steady" curve. Most of the other curves would be application specific, and we can fix any solids that need them one by one. Though, if anyone has feedback on that, let me know.

Can't you use the variants system to allow us to choose between all of them? We only need 3 of them:

From your linked gif,

- number 2 could be the default ("stock")

- number 1 would be useful for sounding rockets or long burning SRB, so that you don't exceed terminal velocity

- number 4 is useful for heavy rockets needing a big push off of the launchpad.

That way, you'd just need to test ONE, then apply it with MM for all stuff using solid fuel.

Only problem I foresee with this is Mechjeb/Engineer not realizing you might want to drop the SRB as soon as their TWR goes below 1 (especially with number 4). We might have to manually decrease the fuel quantity temporarily while building, to give us an idea of what our DeltaV would actually be like.

[Raptor831]

Can't you use the variants system to allow us to choose between all of them? We only need 3 of them:

From your linked gif,

- number 2 could be the default ("stock")

- number 1 would be useful for sounding rockets or long burning SRB, so that you don't exceed terminal velocity

- number 4 is useful for heavy rockets needing a big push off of the launchpad.

That way, you'd just need to test ONE, then apply it with MM for all stuff using solid fuel.

Only problem I foresee with this is Mechjeb/Engineer not realizing you might want to drop the SRB as soon as their TWR goes below 1 (especially with number 4). We might have to manually decrease the fuel quantity temporarily while building, to give us an idea of what our DeltaV would actually be like.

Technically, yes, I could globally apply all curves to all solids. But it just seems like overkill to me. The payload assist motors don't need a dip in thrust for max-Q, and sepratrons (and their siblings) don't really need a curve (though the pulse curve might be useful). Plus, they need to be added to a CONFIG node, which requires a config for each curve you want. Having 7 configs for each SRB might be a bit much.

Delta-V won't really be changed by a thrust curve. You'll lose maybe 1% of the total when the thrust drops to minimal. Honestly, your effective delta-V goes up if you use the appropriate curves on launch because you don't waste as much dV fighting drag.

What will probably happen is that Solid-type will get certain curves, and Solid Plus-type will get another set. And maybe sepratrons will get a third set. Maybe this weekend I'll get it fixed, since the snowstorms might finally be over!

[Raptor831]

I've pushed a new release for Stockalike. The dev version was adding a few too many features that weren't fixed properly in the last release, so I just decided to make sure all of the new fixes and updated engines were released. If you're using CKAN, the update should push soon (I think within a day).

The update is really just getting the Fuel_Conversions.cfg to work properly, adding some new engines, and upgrading some other engines. Let me know, as always, if something needs work!

[SpaceHungryMan]

Hi Raptor831,

I'm currently playing around with your fantastic web-app trying to create configs for some SRBs and I'm hoping you can clear some things up for me.

1) What does the "Percentage Case" mean? And am I supposed to keep that and "Goal Percentage Case" more or less equal?

2) What are the Steady Dip and Decreasing Dip profiles for? Do they have something to do with Max Q? Ullage?

3) Is the Dedicated Tank option required for SRBs?

Thanks.

[Raptor831]

@SpaceHungryMan:

1) Percentage Case is the percent of the SRB mass that is the case, i.e. the "tank" holding in the pressure/exhaust and forcing it in the right direction. And yes, the idea is to keep the Goal % Case and the % Case roughly the same. Basically, that keeps SRBs grounded in some reality so we don't get 1 ton dry mass SRBs that push 20 MN of thrust!

2) Steady Dip and Decreasing Dip have a "dip" in the thrust curve. It's not specifically for max-Q, but it tends to work out that way. The curves are all at this link: http://www.braeunig.us/space/pics/fig1-14.gif Thrust is vertical axis, time is horizontal axis.

3) Don't worry about the dedicated tank for now. It was at one point for parts like SRBs, the Gemini Transfer Stage from FASA, and any other part that had an engine and tank together. The assumption was that you would obviously be using the tank for the engine, so it automatically fills the tank. It caused problems (not sure if it was RF code or somewhere else), so NathanKell removed the option. I left it in the webapp as a placeholder (it's also in the XLS), but currently it does nothing.

And double check your configs from today if you've created any. I've been doing work on it all day, so there may be odd things and/or errors in anything you've pulled down today.

[SpaceHungryMan]

As it happens, I have been having some trouble with the web-app. In that case, I'll just wait until you decide that it's ready.

Also, do you have specific intentions towards converting all existing SRBs to use thrust curves? As in, do you already have a vision as to what curves should go with what SRBs, etc.? I don't want to trample all over your work when I start creating configs.

[Raptor831]

As it happens, I have been having some trouble with the web-app. In that case, I'll just wait until you decide that it's ready.

Also, do you have specific intentions towards converting all existing SRBs to use thrust curves? As in, do you already have a vision as to what curves should go with what SRBs, etc.? I don't want to trample all over your work when I start creating configs.

The app itself should be working. If you have trouble with the webapp, let me know. I'm on it currently doing some testing, and it's giving configs properly. Once in KSP it's a bit different, but if you're getting errors with them in-game, let me know as well.

For the SRBs, I don't have anything set in stone. I was thinking essentially for the Solid type (i.e. launch types) motors to do the Decreasing Dip, Steady Dip, and Steady curves. For the Solid+ type (i.e. vacuum) I was thinking the Decreasing, Steady, and Pulse curves. Sepratrons and their like should probably have the Pulse and Steady curves. Essentially, the curves that would be the most useful to the SRB. Don't know what the increasing curve would be useful for; maybe some sounding rockets or something, but definitely nothing manned. I'm open to ideas about it, since I haven't actually done any heavy lifting to put them in.

[SpaceHungryMan]

Hey I just noticed you added support for RCS! Thanks Always had trouble with those.

Oh and the app doesn't seem to be responsive when I choose Solid or Solid Plus as a type (or even Jet for that matter). By that I mean the Percentage Case/Goal Percentage Case does not update as I change thrust, mass, or ISP. It also gives heat production as NaN.

To replicate:

1) Go to Blank Template Engine

2) Choose Solid/Solid Plus/Jet as type

3) Fiddle with the mass/thrust/ISP

4) Percentage Case field will remain blank and red, heat production will be NaN

Everything else seems to work fine though.

[Raptor831]

Hey I just noticed you added support for RCS! Thanks Always had trouble with those.

Oh and the app doesn't seem to be responsive when I choose Solid or Solid Plus as a type (or even Jet for that matter). By that I mean the Percentage Case/Goal Percentage Case does not update as I change thrust, mass, or ISP. It also gives heat production as NaN.

To replicate:

1) Go to Blank Template Engine

2) Choose Solid/Solid Plus/Jet as type

3) Fiddle with the mass/thrust/ISP

4) Percentage Case field will remain blank and red, heat production will be NaN

Everything else seems to work fine though.

Yeah, RCS is what I've been working on today. There's a button there to set up a standard RCS setup, which you should start from. It'll get all the standard mixtures set up, and give you good starting values. You can do wacky things still, but RCS "engines" are a bit different than normal rocket engines. There are also some housekeeping-type changes coming down the way, which I needed to add to the webapp. Shouldn't affect anything directly yet.

But, the error is technically "working as intended". The app assumes you have a "Solid" tank with a volume specified. It's not apparent on the front end (my fault, I'll see if I can throw up a notice or something), but once you add a MFT tank to the config it'll work. It's a divide-by-zero error, because % Case is dry mass / wet mass, and wet mass needs a "tank" volume. If you have no volume, it throws an error on that function and stops the rest of the calculations.

Jet technically doesn't work at all yet. I probably should just remove it, but it was in the original XLS so I decided to have the framework there. Honestly, you'd be better off using Advanced Jet Engines. It's like Real Fuels is to rocket engines, AJE is to jets/SABREs; it takes care of all the configs and works with RF out of the box.

[SpaceHungryMan]

Doh. Of course. I'll just do the calculations by hand. EDIT: Wait no I don't! I just need to use the tank type and volume fields! This is great

And yeah I don't really mind losing the Jet functionality. As you said, AJE is a better option. I just thought to bring it to your attention.

Oh and I pretty much agree with what you have in mind for the thrust curves. Um, can't think of anything for Increasing except maybe weaponized missiles, if you're into that sort of thing. I'll slowly start converting all existing SRBs. I'll probably leave FASA and such to you guys though.

EDIT: Should I also start worrying about the new crossfeed option? Anything that needs to change because of it?

Edited March 1, 2015 by SpaceHungryMan

[Raptor831]

Doh. Of course. I'll just do the calculations by hand. EDIT: Wait no I don't! I just need to use the tank type and volume fields! This is great

And yeah I don't really mind losing the Jet functionality. As you said, AJE is a better option. I just thought to bring it to your attention.

Oh and I pretty much agree with what you have in mind for the thrust curves. Um, can't think of anything for Increasing except maybe weaponized missiles, if you're into that sort of thing. I'll slowly start converting all existing SRBs. I'll probably leave FASA and such to you guys though.

EDIT: Should I also start worrying about the new crossfeed option? Anything that needs to change because of it?

Don't worry about doing the SRB curves for existing just yet. I'm planning on a mass-upgrade (scripts are fun!) once I settle on some nice defaults. Then if needed we can go through each and tweak as needed.

The crossfeed stuff is part of the "housekeeping" I was referring to. It changes more about RealFuels than Stockalike, honestly. I just need to make sure I define the flow mode in the engine configs to make sure it's working properly. Which is complete for the generator. The only one's we'll need to figure out are the oddballs or one-offs (like the dual-mode SpaceY engines) and anything that is in the configs but not in the webapp. I think I have a list based on past commits, so hopefully that'll be easy enough. But, no worries about the crossfeed/flow mode stuff.

If anyone else has some insight/suggestions on SRB curves, feel free to chime in. I'd rather have as much feedback upfront I can before I make sweeping changes. Do note that the thrust curve additions (or the flow mode changes) shouldn't affect any craft in flight, it should only affect new flights. So, let me know if you all have any ideas.

[Raptor831]

Ok, just pushed a rather large update to the repo. If anyone has some time, download the newest files from the repo and let me know how they work for you. You shouldn't notice anything different, so if you don't see anything different about the setup that's a good thing. It's dealing with some housekeeping and the flow mode stuff mentioned above.

Also, lurkaholic made some configs for the Sea Dragon 2 mod. Which is probably one of the most kerbal rockets ever designed in real life. Thanks again!

[karamazovnew]

Something that's been bugging me for a while about Real Fuels was the sheer amount of fuels. I understand the need of it for Realism Overhaul, just in case engines are configured to use them, but since Stockalike covers almost every engine mod (many more than I use), I decided to prune RF for myself. I was expecting to just prune a few, but the list I ended up with was huge

AvGas, Aniline, Helium, ClF3, ClF5, Diborane, Pentaborane, Ethylene, OF2, LqdFluorine, N2F4, Methanol, Furfuryl, UH25, Tonka250, Tonka500, FLOX30, FLOX70, FLOX88, IWFNA, IRFNA-IV, AK20, AK27, CaveaB, MON1, MON3, MON10, MON15, MON20, Hydyne, TEATEB, Syntin (only one Kosmos engine uses Syntin, reconfigured to Kerosene).

Thanks so much Raptor for not going overboard with these I'm gonna enjoy my cleared tank interface, mwahahaha.

Now on to fix the fuel costs and tank types. Boy this is gonna be easy now, with just a few fuels, hehe. If I get something playable, I'll post the changes here.

[Konnor]

Hi there, Raptor831, a bug report: found a mismatched brace in B9_modularEngines.cfg, right here.

[NathanKell]

AvGas should stick around, since AJE (the airbreather companion to RF, let's say) uses it, but I highly recommend hiding the other ones Stockalike RF doesn't use. Hiding them i.e. -RESOURCE_DEFINTION[resname] {} and @TANK_DEFINITION[*] { -TANK[resname] {} } will cause no problems.

[Raptor831]

Something that's been bugging me for a while about Real Fuels was the sheer amount of fuels. I understand the need of it for Realism Overhaul, just in case engines are configured to use them, but since Stockalike covers almost every engine mod (many more than I use), I decided to prune RF for myself. I was expecting to just prune a few, but the list I ended up with was huge

AvGas, Aniline, Helium, ClF3, ClF5, Diborane, Pentaborane, Ethylene, OF2, LqdFluorine, N2F4, Methanol, Furfuryl, UH25, Tonka250, Tonka500, FLOX30, FLOX70, FLOX88, IWFNA, IRFNA-IV, AK20, AK27, CaveaB, MON1, MON3, MON10, MON15, MON20, Hydyne, TEATEB, Syntin (only one Kosmos engine uses Syntin, reconfigured to Kerosene).

Thanks so much Raptor for not going overboard with these I'm gonna enjoy my cleared tank interface, mwahahaha.

Now on to fix the fuel costs and tank types. Boy this is gonna be easy now, with just a few fuels, hehe. If I get something playable, I'll post the changes here.

Cool. Helium does actually get used for RCS (or it will shortly). UH25 I thought was used somewhere, probably either in KOSMOS or Bobcats Soviet engines. But yeah, there's a few posts about the sheer number of fuels, and the fuels that no rocket should ever use (I'm looking at you fluorine/chlorine!).

Hi there, Raptor831, a bug report: found a mismatched brace in B9_modularEngines.cfg, right here.

Thanks for the catch. Fixed on the repo.