How To Do Space Stations

[CaptRobau]

Space stations are a lot of fun to construct in KSP, but sadly they serve little real purpose. While real stations like Mir or the ISS have been invaluable research platforms, all science in KSP can easily be done using normal spacecraft or unmanned probes. Other real-life uses for space stations also don’t translate to KSP, simply because there’s never a reason for a manned spacecraft to be in the same orbit for an extended period of time.

What Do Space Stations Do?

In real-life space stations are very valuable. So valuable in fact, that they were one of two options in the decision about NASA’s post-Apollo future (the other being a manne Mars mission). They are valuable because they allow us to gather data over an extended period of time, something which is not possible with a normal spacecraft. This can be scientific data or data about long-term performance of both man and machine in the dangerous environment of space. Both require an extensive infrastructure to provide enough power, life support and living space. KSP does not do any of this very well or at all.

What Would KSP Need?

Two things are necessary to make space stations the valuable research platforms with large crews that they are in real-life: science-over-time and an incentive to have large crews.

Science-Over-Time

Squad hasn’t been too welcoming of the idea of science-over-time (SOT). It’s been described as too easy. I agree with that, but only SOT when landed. The challenge in surface science lies in directing your spacecraft to its ideal location. Once you’ve landed, there is no more challenge. This is different with space science. In space you can be in a safe, stable orbit or on a flyby course or even an impact course. At the moment, due to instantaneous space science, flyby or impact courses are ideal. They require less maneuvers and less Delta-v, which all means it requires far less skill. An orbit might help you with the couple of experiments that offer biome-specific science in orbit, but that kind of science is so boring and tedious to gather that it is often skipped. An orbital science lab also has some use, but this is also quite limited due to the setup of the science system.

If you HAD to get in a stable orbit before you could do certain types of science, then that would add more variety. SOT is an ideal way to achieve this kind of science. The time requirement would require a stable orbit and it could introduce the need for a decent power infrastructure (at the moment you can get away with very few solar panels, simply because there are few parts that draw power over an extended period of time). SOT would allow you to easily get science by timewarping. But since there is first the challenge of building a space station with the necessary science and power parts, as a whole orbital SOT requires skill.

Crew Incentive

A real space station needs to be manned though and by a decent-size crew too. In stock KSP, most manned missions can be done, and are more easily done, with a single crew member. How to prevent that from happening to space stations as well? One could require a minimal amount of Kerbals per lab à la the MPL-LG but that would put an upper limit on the Kerbals you would need. You could just move your Kerbals from one science experiment to the next.

A more ideal solution would be to add a bonus to science based on the amount of crew members on the craft that the science part is attached to. It would raise the maximum value that could be extracted from the science experiment in that area (ex. Low orbit around the Mun). To prevent 100-man stations gaming the systems, there would be diminishing returns. Let’s say an experiment has a normal maximum value of 10. A 1-man crew or an unmanned probe would not change this value, but a 2-man crew would increase it to 15. A 3-man crew would make it 17.5, a 4-man crew would get 18,75 and so on.

What are your views on this suggestion or on KSP space stations in general? Feel free to comment away.

[rtxoff]

I think spacestations should be some sort of requirement to unlock some higher tech in the tech tree. So basically you should not be able to unlock stuff in the tech tree until you have a permanent space station in orbit which should have some required parts for example an science lab and so on. Also this could be done with manned lab's at the moon.

[bdito]

That would be great. They could make a new 2.5m part similar to the mobile processing lab specifically for doing in orbit experiments. They could implement it in either way you described in your OP.

[sumghai]

I definitely agree that a science-over-time system would be a good addition to KSP.

With regards to establishing a stable orbit beforehand, what margin of error / eccentricity did you have in mind?

[allmhuran]

Based on some teaser screenshots from Harvester, it appears as though career mode will have the concept of reputation.

This may well eliminate the problem of "time warp making science over time meaningless", since putting something in orbit and then turning on time warp so that the stations sits there collecting vast quantities of science will also likely mean your reputation is decaying.

There are other balancing systems that work too, like a daily cost of running your space program (so warping for long duration without doing anything useful will eat into your budget) and so on.

In short, the problem of "warping through science over time" can be made to disappear with the addition of other career mechanics.

[Seshins]

i agree with this post. I find the challenge and satisfaction of constructing a meaningful station can suddenly cease when the station is complete. I would love it if you earn SOT with a space station.

As for the crew mechanic, maybe you would have to maintain the SOT with 3/6/12 "monthly" crew rotation system. If you missed a particular launch window - the SOT would stop until the replacement crew was aboard.

[Capt Snuggler]

As for the crew mechanic, maybe you would have to maintain the SOT with 3/6/12 "monthly" crew rotation system. If you missed a particular launch window - the SOT would stop until the replacement crew was aboard.

I like this. crew rotation +1

It would also be good if you had to deliver science packages to your station. this and crew rotation encourage/requires regular launches and rewards good vehicle design, especially re-useable vehicles.

the number science packages available could be regulated to prevent spamming.

[Seshins]

^ yeah i think that would make regular flights less of a chore, more variation. I like where this could lead...

[Kasuha]

As far as I understand it, this kind of proposals is usually made by people who like to build and run space stations but they don't feel rewarded enough by their success in building and maintaining their fleet and would like to be somehow rewarded more by the game. The problem is that not everybody finds space station building and maintenance fun and rewarding and introducing game rewards for that will not make it any more fun for them, it will only turn to achievement/economy hunt.

In real world, the main purpose of space stations (should we even use plural here?) is research of materials and organisms behavior in microgravity. There is a lot of research to be done and it goes very slow, with results turning to practical improvements over the course of many years. Even with that, there is only so much to be researched in microgravity and over (very long) time there will be very little left to research/discover on it.

In KSP, you get your first little ship to orbit and bam, you have all the microgravity research done in one step. And you can turn that into practical improvements (new parts) almost instantly.

There are only two ways to make KSP similar to real world in this regard:

- either you make the progress slower, i.e. you need to perform the "research" many many times to achieve what you can now achieve instantly

- or you are able to gain unlimited science points from running the research repeatedly

Neither of the two is good idea IMO. Slower progress will deter players, while unlimited science coming basically for free is going to crash the game economy. Science just does not work the same way in KSP as in real world and we should accept it.

On the other hand, I am pretty sure space stations will have their purpose once money is introduced into the game. Not for science, but as refueling stations. Because running a ship between orbits will always be cheaper than sending it from surface every time. And if you send just fuel, you can send more of it than if you had to send all kinds of support parts such as engines, docking ports, command pods and so on.

[Red Iron Crown]

On the other hand, I am pretty sure space stations will have their purpose once money is introduced into the game. Not for science, but as refueling stations. Because running a ship between orbits will always be cheaper than sending it from surface every time. And if you send just fuel, you can send more of it than if you had to send all kinds of support parts such as engines, docking ports, command pods and so on.

That's how I'm imagining career mode with economics playing out. Launches from Kerbin will be mostly large craft for propellant resupply and small ones for crew exchange, with an occasional lift to put a new orbital ship into service. There's a lot of talk about reusability of lifters and spaceplanes, but IMO the real reusable program will be occurring in orbit. Build one interplanetary mothership and use it to visit every planet that interests you. General purpose single stage landers that work everywhere but Tylo, Eve and perhaps Laythe.

[Random Tank]

Adding life support would make this more sensible too; in that way, you are exchanging food, oxygen, water and the fuel to get it into orbit (which would all cost money) for science; also +1 for crew rotation!

To add some figures: I'd have it so the 'Research Lab' requires 1 Kerbal as crew (maximum 3), and constant power; when it has these, it will happily produce 0.2 Science per day. But if you add another Kerbal to the Lab, it will then produce 0.5 Science per day; and a third Kerbal will result in 1.2 science per day. You could then add the normal Science Lab to it, which will double the Science per Day, in exchange for 2 more crew and even more power.

You could even transmit it to surface (but it would require a minimum of a high level Antennae, because a small one can't send the large packet size), but this would require even more power!

And for further balance: The Research Lab requires constant power to work; if it ever runs out of power, it will shut down. A shut down lab will restart when power is availible, but will require several hours to 'warm up'. This makes it so anyone wanting the lab to produce science constantly has to set up a power network that can keep it running even through the night cycle; if not it will miss most of the day cycle too due to warming up, making its 'life support vs. science' efficiency very low.

[r4pt0r]

how about kerbals can use the science lab (needs to be in orbit or not on kerbin) to produce .2 science per day, up to a maximum of 20, at which point the lab kerbals will not be able to generate lab science until they have been recovered on kerbin.

a fresh science team must be loaded into the lab. the "science weary" kerbals could be indicated with an * added on their names and in their right click menu. this would prevent you from just eva'ing out and then returning. crews would need to be rotated up from kerbin (or other parts of the ship, but the crew is finite) to generate further science.

other than that they would still have all the normal science-ing abilities as normal.