[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][Mars Expedition WIP]

[Beale]

Fuji textures are amazing! Really nice, want to see so good textures on the soyuz.

Thanks!

Believe me, it has not escaped my attention that the Soyuz is the oldest part of this pack.

I'm afraid to touch it though

Thermal Blankets? Ayy...

I still would like to do Venera and Mars before moving onto else work.

So we may have the original OM, the SPACEVIEWCORP, and the Malaysian? Maybe the SPACEVIEWCORP can be a many-crewed (4?) cupola while the Malaysian can be a smaller science module for 1 kerbal?

Yeah I think this is the right ideas..

The old Fuji held 2 in the OM.

So up to 4 and down to 1 is good flexibility.

No worries. The Energia can make a good modular lifter too. However, you've been looking at the 1969 N-IM. I was talking about the 1965 N-IM, N-IFs. These are essentially N-Is with either stretched or cylindrical fuel tanks. (This isn't a "push" to make you do the N-Is, don't get me wrong)

Ah right!

I didn't know there was an earlier NI concept. A Google search for N-IM, or N-IF sadly does not turn up anything to me.

[Niemand303]

Ah right!

I didn't know there was an earlier NI concept. A Google search for N-IM, or N-IF sadly does not turn up anything to me.

There were A LOT of N-1 Variants and they are hard to find, sadly. But what about one part of the N1L3 system that survived and serves until now? Yep, I'm talking about Block "D", it would be very nice to have it in 2.5m size for both ALV payload-assists and Munar missions.

About that bread-coloured US ball: DO WANT!!! It's so fun!

[SnowWhite]

Thermal Blankets? Ayy...

Oh, no! That will broke all tantares style! IMHO there is need only in better textures.

I still would like to do Venera and Mars before moving onto else work.

Do. Want.

[Tangle]

Is there any way to convert the old mod's .tgas to .mbms?

[Beale]

There were A LOT of N-1 Variants and they are hard to find, sadly. But what about one part of the N1L3 system that survived and serves until now? Yep, I'm talking about Block "D", it would be very nice to have it in 2.5m size for both ALV payload-assists and Munar missions.

About that bread-coloured US ball: DO WANT!!! It's so fun!

I see, I did not know that!

Yes the Block D is sort of... Begun? I have had the model around for a while, but actually in a 1.875m form factor. This new "golden foil" stuff from the Fuji will apply quite well to it, I think!

I think maybe 2.5m will be better, if it is intended for use with larger payloads to the Mun and Beyond.

The Ball... It is proving quite popular!

It is growing on me.

I get a nice vibe from it:

Oh, no! That will broke all tantares style! IMHO there is need only in better textures.

Aha!

No I wouldn't worry. The last time I tried to draw thermal blankets I was (somewhat ironically) burned. I won't be attempting that style for a while again, too tricky without enormous textures IMO.

I will stick to the same old style! (To some person's delight, to other's dismay).

Do. Want.

Glad!

Is there any way to convert the old mod's .tgas to .mbms?

There is!

Unfortunately it's a rather tedious (But, I admit, not too hard) process, involving lots of Unity exports, lots of micro-managing folders.

Basically:

• Create dummy object in Unity
  
• Apply texture to it
  
• Apply Part Tools
  
• Export to "Some" location
  
• Do this for every single alternate texture
  

The brain-numbing part for me is the creation of the folder structures, since I ideally would like people to be able to apply texture patches by simple drag-n'-drop operation.

This is why I've held off for a while.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Beale

[Tangle]

Okay. The first uses I had for the D-2 stuff was with the OM as a dummy crew module for saving kerbals and that didn't go right at all. For the Fuji I had a hitchhiker below it and the "A-W" (the one that I really want to get ingame...) engine as a very powerful drive. Of course, I could use the new version's model...

[Niemand303]

I see, I did not know that!

Yes the Block D is sort of... Begun? I have had the model around for a while, but actually in a 1.875m form factor. This new "golden foil" stuff from the Fuji will apply quite well to it, I think!

I think maybe 2.5m will be better, if it is intended for use with larger payloads to the Mun and Beyond.

The Ball... It is proving quite popular!

It is growing on me.

I get a nice vibe from it:

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/pikmin/images/4/46/Dolphin.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090629170958

UR-700 was also an opportunity to go Lunar for USSR, though less plausible than N-1.

Yeah, 2.5m will be better basically because it has the same diameter as Proton (4 meters IRL vs 4.1m Proton).

About the ball, I understand it's totally useless in a practical meaning, but it looks so fun with that glass cap on top!

[Leszek]

This page is really alive today.

Beale, you asked about V3.2 bugs. I haven't encountered any bugs yet in this version.

However this reminds me of a minor bug from V3 ish or before that I have been working around. The solar panels for the Alnair and maybe all of them show as completely blocked if you have just the first panel covered. This is an issue because my service modules always have a smaller diameter to hide stuff behind fairings so I am unable to use them on anything else. Not a big deal at all as the stock panels work well in this case but if it is an easy fix it would be greatly appreciated.

[DGatsby]

Oh man, the Fuji and all its associated art is so crazy. Like many others, I do love that big yellow ball. The part of me that wants realism though is more attracted Malaysian OM.

[AppleDavidJeans]

Guys, you may wanna check out the Soyuz FG .craft file download. I have added a little surprise for all of you.

[dimovski]

I don't know... the Soyuz is just 1m in diameter, so around 46 to 48% real life diameter. 2m would work much better, especially as the Salyut is 2m.

And yes, the 1965 variant is really difficult to find... if you interpret it together with the already cancelled N-II and N-III (N-II is N-I minus 1st stage, N-III is N-I minus 1st and 2nd stage + Vostok/Voskhod/Soyuz)... you get the following, differing N-I options:

N-I 1964 - the approved version which got built in the end

N-I 1962 - a prototype, ICBM-like version, looks the same *except* it hasn't got the 6 central engines in the 1st stage. 550 tons less propellant in 1st stage

N-IF 1965 - as per specs it has a 6m longer 2nd and 4m longer 3rd stage (keep in mind the "4th" and "5th" stage were actually not stages of the LV, but part of the L3 landing complex, that's why until 1969-1972 no changes were made with these...), so it *probably* uses engines with more thrust, which translates to higher chamber pressure (atleast because the 1965 N-IM study proposed higher chamber pressure for the giant 1st stage) - the higher chamber pressure also means somewhat improved efficiency

N-IM 1965 - 1st stage changed from the usual conic one to a 3-part cylinder+conic_interstage, now a full 50m long! The 2nd and 3rd stages would, again, retain the original look and engine numbers, but would again be lengthened, compared to the 1964 version, they would be 10/8 meters longer for the 2nd/3rd stage, and again chamber pressure would be increased => more thrust, same looking engines

N-IMV-III - would utilize a hydrolox 3rd stage, would use 6 engines looking similiar to the Block D main engine, from what I found. Stage would be cylindrical

N-IMV-II-III - would use hydrolox on 2nd and 3rd stage, funnily astronautix says 4 engines would be used, which would mean that the 2nd stage has a TWR of 0.9, so it's more likely to be 8 engines. They even made some test firings of NK-15V/NK-43s with hydrogen... so I presume the engines would stay the same

Ofcourse there's a billion subversions which you could make with these parts.

All in all that's 6 fuel tanks from scratch, 4 stretched fuel tanks (I wonder if this could work by changing only one parameter out of the 3 scale parameters in the .cfg file...), and 5(?) engine plates (30 - 24 - 8 - 6 - 4), together with 4 different kinds of engines - NK-15 - NK-15V - RD-57 - NK-19.

Now, if one would like hardcore realism, one might make atmospheric NK-19 and RD-57 versions (different engine bell, same plumbing...), and, without number crunching, I'd guess the engine numbers for different N-II and N-III variants would need to be changed - so everything from 2 to 4 additional engine plates. Quite an undertaking! (Which no one will ever pursue because of it's giant size, lack of pictures and sources... etc.)

If you're interested in reading up some more, here are some links:

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/n11962.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/n11964.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/nif1965.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/nim1965.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/nimiiiii.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/nimviii.htm

[Kibble]

I actually prefer Energia to N1, especially if its made modular so you can make Zenit, Energia-M, AND Energia - A whole rocket family out of a minimum of parts! Plus it is totes 80s-looking.

[dimovski]

I actually prefer Energia to N1, especially if its made modular so you can make Zenit, Energia-M, AND Energia - A whole rocket family out of a minimum of parts! Plus it is totes 80s-looking.

And the rest of stuff is from the '60s and '70s... But ofcourse your right. Again, I'm not even proposing this. It's waaay to much work. It's just wishful thinking.

[Beale]

Okay. The first uses I had for the D-2 stuff was with the OM as a dummy crew module for saving kerbals and that didn't go right at all. For the Fuji I had a hitchhiker below it and the "A-W" (the one that I really want to get ingame...) engine as a very powerful drive. Of course, I could use the new version's model...

The A-W engine, remind me, was that the engine of the D-2? It is very foggy memory

I look forward to see what people put together with the Fuji!

UR-700 was also an opportunity to go Lunar for USSR, though less plausible than N-1.

Yeah, 2.5m will be better basically because it has the same diameter as Proton (4 meters IRL vs 4.1m Proton).

About the ball, I understand it's totally useless in a practical meaning, but it looks so fun with that glass cap on top!

2.5m it is!

I am a bit of a nut for airships and blimps, etc.

So I can think of some cool uses for "the ball" and its large viewing window.

This page is really alive today.

Beale, you asked about V3.2 bugs. I haven't encountered any bugs yet in this version.

However this reminds me of a minor bug from V3 ish or before that I have been working around. The solar panels for the Alnair and maybe all of them show as completely blocked if you have just the first panel covered. This is an issue because my service modules always have a smaller diameter to hide stuff behind fairings so I am unable to use them on anything else. Not a big deal at all as the stock panels work well in this case but if it is an easy fix it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks! Yes, I have not had this many replies in a while! People like the Fuji, I guess

I had noticed this once. But never managed to reproduce it. I understand now, I think.

Power-draw is defined by one section, currently section 1 of the panel, so if I change that to section 6 of the panel, should be a simple fix.

Oh man, the Fuji and all its associated art is so crazy. Like many others, I do love that big yellow ball. The part of me that wants realism though is more attracted Malaysian OM.

It's very "Japanese" isn't it?

I don't know how much of that stuff ever had serious thinking behind it, some of the other concepts for inflatable tourist orbs for example (Not seen in that image), are just plain crazy.

Guys, you may wanna check out the Soyuz FG .craft file download. I have added a little surprise for all of you.

Oh, how I wish I wasn't stuck on a Linux Terminal!

Count me curious!

I don't know... the Soyuz is just 1m in diameter, so around 46 to 48% real life diameter. 2m would work much better, especially as the Salyut is 2m.

And yes, the 1965 variant is really difficult to find... if you interpret it together with the already cancelled N-II and N-III (N-II is N-I minus 1st stage, N-III is N-I minus 1st and 2nd stage + Vostok/Voskhod/Soyuz)... you get the following, differing N-I options:

N-I 1964 - the approved version which got built in the end

N-I 1962 - a prototype, ICBM-like version, looks the same *except* it hasn't got the 6 central engines in the 1st stage. 550 tons less propellant in 1st stage

N-IF 1965 - as per specs it has a 6m longer 2nd and 4m longer 3rd stage (keep in mind the "4th" and "5th" stage were actually not stages of the LV, but part of the L3 landing complex, that's why until 1969-1972 no changes were made with these...), so it *probably* uses engines with more thrust, which translates to higher chamber pressure (atleast because the 1965 N-IM study proposed higher chamber pressure for the giant 1st stage) - the higher chamber pressure also means somewhat improved efficiency

N-IM 1965 - 1st stage changed from the usual conic one to a 3-part cylinder+conic_interstage, now a full 50m long! The 2nd and 3rd stages would, again, retain the original look and engine numbers, but would again be lengthened, compared to the 1964 version, they would be 10/8 meters longer for the 2nd/3rd stage, and again chamber pressure would be increased => more thrust, same looking engines

N-IMV-III - would utilize a hydrolox 3rd stage, would use 6 engines looking similiar to the Block D main engine, from what I found. Stage would be cylindrical

N-IMV-II-III - would use hydrolox on 2nd and 3rd stage, funnily astronautix says 4 engines would be used, which would mean that the 2nd stage has a TWR of 0.9, so it's more likely to be 8 engines. They even made some test firings of NK-15V/NK-43s with hydrogen... so I presume the engines would stay the same

Ofcourse there's a billion subversions which you could make with these parts.

All in all that's 6 fuel tanks from scratch, 4 stretched fuel tanks (I wonder if this could work by changing only one parameter out of the 3 scale parameters in the .cfg file...), and 5(?) engine plates (30 - 24 - 8 - 6 - 4), together with 4 different kinds of engines - NK-15 - NK-15V - RD-57 - NK-19.

Now, if one would like hardcore realism, one might make atmospheric NK-19 and RD-57 versions (different engine bell, same plumbing...), and, without number crunching, I'd guess the engine numbers for different N-II and N-III variants would need to be changed - so everything from 2 to 4 additional engine plates. Quite an undertaking! (Which no one will ever pursue because of it's giant size, lack of pictures and sources... etc.)

If you're interested in reading up some more, here are some links:

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/n11962.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/n11964.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/nif1965.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/nim1965.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/nimiiiii.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/nimviii.htm

Wow! Thanks!

I had not even though to check Astronautix, I've been checking Russian Space Web and Wikipedia

Great write-up on the different versions, I think from the pictures now it is much more clear to me on the "cylinder design".

Crazy to think there is also an ICBM version, overkill much?

A little aside:

I think you might be confusing model-scale and game-scale, the Soyuz and Salyut in the 3D modelling software are 1m and 2m, yes. But, in-game a rescale factor is applied to both craft, to 1.25m and 2.5m.

I actually prefer Energia to N1, especially if its made modular so you can make Zenit, Energia-M, AND Energia - A whole rocket family out of a minimum of parts! Plus it is totes 80s-looking.

This is the advantage I see! (And Energia Vulkan).

I think the payload to LEO between the N1 and Energia were not sooo different (Was it give or take a 5 ton difference? Which when talking ultra-heavy lift vehicles is not so much).

And the rest of stuff is from the '60s and '70s... But ofcourse your right. Again, I'm not even proposing this. It's waaay to much work. It's just wishful thinking.

I'll see you in 2050

No really, if I had the time, I would love to make all of these things, it is a shame. Perhaps when I wrap up my MSc, I'll return to having something resembling "free time" again.

Have you by any chance tried the N1 found in SXT?

Though I do not know if I will ever make an N1, IMO that one in particular is really very good (And scales quite well with Tantares craft), and I've been using it now and again for some crazy stuff.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Beale

[Tangle]

The A-W engine, remind me, was that the engine of the D-2? It is very foggy memory

A-W was the first iteration of the Salyut Propelling Engine. I have it ingame as the V-EG.

[bs1110101]

I don't know... the Soyuz is just 1m in diameter, so around 46 to 48% real life diameter. 2m would work much better, especially as the Salyut is 2m.

And yes, the 1965 variant is really difficult to find... if you interpret it together with the already cancelled N-II and N-III (N-II is N-I minus 1st stage, N-III is N-I minus 1st and 2nd stage + Vostok/Voskhod/Soyuz)... you get the following, differing N-I options:

N-I 1964 - the approved version which got built in the end

N-I 1962 - a prototype, ICBM-like version, looks the same *except* it hasn't got the 6 central engines in the 1st stage. 550 tons less propellant in 1st stage

N-IF 1965 - as per specs it has a 6m longer 2nd and 4m longer 3rd stage (keep in mind the "4th" and "5th" stage were actually not stages of the LV, but part of the L3 landing complex, that's why until 1969-1972 no changes were made with these...), so it *probably* uses engines with more thrust, which translates to higher chamber pressure (atleast because the 1965 N-IM study proposed higher chamber pressure for the giant 1st stage) - the higher chamber pressure also means somewhat improved efficiency

N-IM 1965 - 1st stage changed from the usual conic one to a 3-part cylinder+conic_interstage, now a full 50m long! The 2nd and 3rd stages would, again, retain the original look and engine numbers, but would again be lengthened, compared to the 1964 version, they would be 10/8 meters longer for the 2nd/3rd stage, and again chamber pressure would be increased => more thrust, same looking engines

N-IMV-III - would utilize a hydrolox 3rd stage, would use 6 engines looking similiar to the Block D main engine, from what I found. Stage would be cylindrical

N-IMV-II-III - would use hydrolox on 2nd and 3rd stage, funnily astronautix says 4 engines would be used, which would mean that the 2nd stage has a TWR of 0.9, so it's more likely to be 8 engines. They even made some test firings of NK-15V/NK-43s with hydrogen... so I presume the engines would stay the same

Ofcourse there's a billion subversions which you could make with these parts.

All in all that's 6 fuel tanks from scratch, 4 stretched fuel tanks (I wonder if this could work by changing only one parameter out of the 3 scale parameters in the .cfg file...), and 5(?) engine plates (30 - 24 - 8 - 6 - 4), together with 4 different kinds of engines - NK-15 - NK-15V - RD-57 - NK-19.

Now, if one would like hardcore realism, one might make atmospheric NK-19 and RD-57 versions (different engine bell, same plumbing...), and, without number crunching, I'd guess the engine numbers for different N-II and N-III variants would need to be changed - so everything from 2 to 4 additional engine plates. Quite an undertaking! (Which no one will ever pursue because of it's giant size, lack of pictures and sources... etc.)

If you're interested in reading up some more, here are some links:

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/n11962.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/n11964.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/nif1965.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/nim1965.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/nimiiiii.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/nimviii.htm

I'd like assorted N1 bits if anything, engines, decouplers, grid fins, tank domes, greebley bits, whatever. The idea being so you can make whatever version you want, not just the exact one that flew.

Relatedly, my favorite of the N1 concepts: It used a single, utterly massive aerospike for a first stage engine!

[Beale]

A-W was the first iteration of the Salyut Propelling Engine. I have it ingame as the V-EG.

Ah, I understand now! I have tried the combo with Hitchhiker as you suggest! Very nice!

I'd like assorted N1 bits if anything, engines, decouplers, grid fins, tank domes, greebley bits, whatever. The idea being so you can make whatever version you want, not just the exact one that flew.

Relatedly, my favorite of the N1 concepts: http://i.imgur.com/yXk95j8.jpg It used a single, utterly massive aerospike for a first stage engine!

Wow, that is a new one!

I love the aerospike design. It almost looks like the LOK service module's big daddy.

Trailer.

Before I fall asleep (It's 1AM here!); here, for anyone interested, a silly new little trailer for Tantares.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly3QCqLvLKA&feature=youtu.be

Edited December 7, 2014 by Beale

[AppleDavidJeans]

Ah I'm now seeing where the strut issue on my craft files is coming from. The struts that I thought were stock are actually KW. I'm too lazy right now to replace those struts, so that's tomorrow. Until then, I ask that you have KW (or at least the strut parts in that pack, if you're smart enough to do that) installed to use my craft files.

BTW Beale, any progress on the Fuji re-dev?

[DGatsby]

Before I fall asleep (It's 1AM here!); here, for anyone interested, a silly new little trailer for Tantares.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly3QCqLvLKA&feature=youtu.be

HA! I love that song! What are the odds you'd select it?! Well probably pretty good actually, considering you're from Italy. Still though, quite a coincidence.

[Kitworks]

FUJI Beta

Download

Eeeeeeee!

Beale, you talk all the time about "Oh, if only I had more time..." but it seems to me you get a phenomenal amount done! Love your work, as always.

[boosters++]

The Shenzhou module is fantastic.

Also, did the launchers get a rebalance/realism pass?

If so, the Soyuz launcher seems to be more reasonably powered (although I still have to throttle down the engines a lot, using FAR).

The larger launcher, however, can still function as a VTOL SSTO...

[passinglurker]

This had been brought up a few versions ago but the antennas unlike their stock counterparts still have physics enabled.

[Djolox]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ly3QCqLvLKA

MY Reply:

Io Vivo a Tivat, in Montenegro.

[Djolox]

And the rest of stuff is from the '60s and '70s... But ofcourse your right. Again, I'm not even proposing this. It's waaay to much work. It's just wishful thinking.

As a Croat, I indeed now what Venera means, we Croats call Venus Venera actually... please dont correct me, rather say you dont undersrtand me... also the venera mission i was voting for is the venera 75 mission which has an orbiter and a lander... oh and many of the later luna probes had similiar looks, same for Mars probes

Znao sam da nisam jedini sa Balkana pozdrav iz CG.

Znaci i ti se navuko na Tantares. Nisam te zaboravio sa Space Factory thread-a. Pozdrav iz CG! (Opet)

[Niemand303]

Trailer.

Before I fall asleep (It's 1AM here!); here, for anyone interested, a silly new little trailer for Tantares.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly3QCqLvLKA&feature=youtu.be

It's awesome! I was expecting something to pop up from that cargo bay.

[spoiler=Some Italian music I prefer recently ]

Attention: Melodic Death Metal

Edited December 7, 2014 by Niemand303