[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][Mars Expedition WIP]

[Beale]

Per my earlier post about cost tweaks, just undertook a big project and re-evaluated costs and entryCost for almost every part in this mod and LV mod. Found that almost all the parts are WAY under priced to the point that it completely throws off balance (eg. the Proton LV is less than half the cost of a stock LV with similar dV). Some parts are also weirdly balanced, with stock, like the decouplers which are either wildly better or wildly worse. Also, every part had the same entryCost and cost. entryCost now matters, and in stock is usually 2-5x the actual cost.

Good news is, I worked all day to redo everything so that it is similar to stock and IMHO well balanced with it. For example, some components that are inferior have a much lower entryCost and cost. I tweaked the weight of the LV pack decouplers to balance with stock, and I also moved around 1 or two parts in the tech tree because I found them to make for better gamplay at a different tech node. eg. the engine/generator/LFO tank peice is in general rocketry (with a rather spendy purchase cost). This allows it to be used for early mun or minmus missions when the player hasn't yet researched solar panels! It played well when I tested it out in my new game on hard.

Anyways, here is the whole huge cfg. I'd be honored if it was implemented in some way!

Awesome work! Cannot thank you enough.

I will not use this MM patch, but will instead use these numbers in the basic configs

Pretty much all of those problems can be solved by making it like the stock shielded or inline docking ports instead. Since the docking point is not tied to a bottom node you can have a fairing and deployable hatch covers of some sort can hide the perceived ugliness. Plus some people might want to recreate the MSS concept...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/Cargo_Ascent_and_Return_Vehicle_docked_to_the_ISS.jpg

of course if that was the case we'd need a lab version...

The shielded docking port is a good idea... A light bulb has gone above my head

I'll be back soon, with more on this!

Actually, your models aren't far off! The current Cygnus is 3.66m long (EDIT: Another place Wikipedia is saying 5m...), and the ATV is 10.3m. (At least, according to wikipedia...)

And Progress is 7 something meters, so... you're perfect!

Huh, interesting!

I always had it in my head while modelling the Cygnus that 'this should be 2.5m, but lets not do that'.

The diameter is 3.07 metres, so it is fairly smaller than the ATV.

I have been on a hiatus from KSP for a little while and just recently got back into playing. I just want to post a great big thank you for building a Vostok and it's accompanying rocket! I also think it's awesome you're willing to listen to the forums and use my ideas (the Vostok itself and *apparently* integrating with station science. Before I felt the need to use HGR (for the spherical capsule), Bobcat's rockets (for the Soyuz), and Tantares (because it was awesome). Now, I only have to download Tantares!

So, again, thanks for all your hard work! Mod makers don't get enough praise, I think.

Glad you enjoy it!

Thanks

I just downloaded the new ProceduralFairings. I see it has added "optional manual fairing shape controls." I'm gonna check that out as soon as I get my KSP to work right again after another update. I'll go see if the Tavio craft fairings I made could use some reshaping from this update.

Hah, this is good news. I'll have to try these new manual controls

May I kindly request a Libra RCS unit which has the same "plate" size on each end? Currently I have to use a half scale one for an advanced Vostok version... and it looks rather ugly with a kontakt-probe on top, and an oversized tavio LES on top of the kontakt docking system.

I am not quite sure what you are asking for here?

Edit:

How about this?

Edited December 20, 2014 by Beale

[CaptRobau]

Very nice!

[AppleDavidJeans]

Edit:

How about this?

http://puu.sh/dCqco/4b52d85f4a.jpg

http://puu.sh/dCqgw/ef361c06b0.jpg

Looking good there. Welp, I just can't figure out what's making my game crash, so I'm deleting my game and installing a new one. I have my save backed up and ready to plug back in. I know it's not Tantares so I'm good there.

[Niemand303]

Testing dat MovieTime thing, I decided to make a small video on Tantares spacecraft, hope you'll enjoy it, the second song in it is the most famous Russian space-related song "Zemlya v illyuminatore"/"Earth in the porthole" :

[Beale]

Very nice!

Thanks!

Erm, there is still the actual docking tunnel to make (It will extend out when doors are opened).

New FX is also needed (IMO) for the engine.

Looking good there. Welp, I just can't figure out what's making my game crash, so I'm deleting my game and installing a new one. I have my save backed up and ready to plug back in. I know it's not Tantares so I'm good there.

From the descriptions you offer in the past, it sounds like a memory deficiency issue. This is just a hunch, sorry I cannot offer more help.

Testing dat MovieTime thing, I decided to make a small video on Tantares spacecraft, hope you'll enjoy it, the second song in it is the most famous Russian space-related song "Zemlya v illyuminatore"/"Earth in the porthole" :

http://youtu.be/_15298lGiEc

Nice trailer!

Beats mine by explaining what the hell Tantares actually is...

The effects and music are cool also, I only ask you, where did you get the cool NavBall?

[Niemand303]

Nice trailer!

Beats mine by explaining what the hell Tantares actually is...

The effects and music are cool also, I only ask you, where did you get the cool NavBall?

Thanks! It's from KSP Renaissance pack, I've installed some of its elements compatible with 0.90.

[dimovski]

Testing dat MovieTime thing, I decided to make a small video on Tantares spacecraft, hope you'll enjoy it, the second song in it is the most famous Russian space-related song "Zemlya v illyuminatore"/"Earth in the porthole" :

http://youtu.be/_15298lGiEc

I love it!

What's the 2nd song, after the march of the air forces?

@Beale:

I'll upload some pictures soon to show what I meant.

EDIT:

Edited December 20, 2014 by dimovski

[Niemand303]

I love it!

What's the 2nd song, after the march of the air forces?

Thanks! It's name is "Trava u doma" (Grass near home, âрðòð у ôþüð) or "Zemlya v illyuminatore" (Earth in the porthole, ×õüûѠò øûûюüøýðтþрõ) by Zemlyane (Earthlings, ×õüÃȄÂýõ), old Soviet rock.

[Beale]

Thanks! It's from KSP Renaissance pack, I've installed some of its elements compatible with 0.90.

Thanks!

I love it!

What's the 2nd song, after the march of the air forces?

@Beale:

I'll upload some pictures soon to show what I meant.

EDIT:

http://i.imgur.com/AvotPly.jpg

Okay, I get you now.

I think, no, a brand new part would be better than adapting the old one. If you have a nice schematic or image of the Vostok-M, I can probably make one rather quick

Design Nu.

You will not have so much clearance. But, can dock, ya dig?

[dimovski]

The problem is that the Vostok-M doesn't exist as a spacecraft... I made it up to have a gap-fitter between Vostok, Voskhod and Soyuz (and because I want to build myself an alternate timeline from 1962 on, and an improved spacecraft allows me to postpone Vostok V and VI launches for a couple of months which makes a flyable N-III more plausible ^^)

[Beale]

The problem is that the Vostok-M doesn't exist as a spacecraft... I made it up to have a gap-fitter between Vostok, Voskhod and Soyuz (and because I want to build myself an alternate timeline from 1962 on, and an improved spacecraft allows me to postpone Vostok V and VI launches for a couple of months which makes a flyable N-III more plausible ^^)

Ah I see.

Still, as you describe it, could be a useful part to have...

So, the port is in-game.

The animation looks lovely, unfortunately, the actual docking is not happening...

Ah, I am trying to solve it, but there is a more detailed thread on Addon-Modelling Development, for anyone who may be able to help.

[curtquarquesso]

In your image there, does the extending docking tunnel have a docking ring already built into it, or do you have to attach a .625 docking ring to it in addition?

[Beale]

In your image there, does the extending docking tunnel have a docking ring already built into it, or do you have to attach a .625 docking ring to it in addition?

Ah, no it is an "all-in-one" system now.

The only way to make it work.

The texture is a little misleading. It will have a "correct" docking port texture before release.

So, in theory, it should work. Ah, but I think something is wrong with the config.

[DGatsby]

I'm not a pro at modding but I just did a similar thing with InterstellarIS and a whole cost overhaul a few posts back. Antenna range is next on my list. I'll be sure to post anything I can get done:D

Cool man! I am excited to see what you come up with!

[Beale]

Cool man! I am excited to see what you come up with!

Likewise! Businfu's cost changes have been implemented into Vanilla Tantares. I look forward to see what he/she does next!

ATV Beta

Download Here

So, after solving the docking issues (Or more accurately, someone else has helped me solve them), I am now confident to give this thing out to the general public

Interested to know how people find the new balancing.

It is mostly the same as old ATV, just a little different cost and some tiny size differences, etc.

Also: As I have time to travel home and have a rest, I am interested in writing a blog entry for beginner modding > Focused around Wings3D.

The gist of it: to make a basic fuel tank, or maybe engine, texture it, and get it in the game.

Would people find this useful?

Edit: Also also, new release is soon. Need docking port / parachute for Fuji and Tantares 13 will be ready to go.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Beale

[AppleDavidJeans]

Also: As I have time to travel home and have a rest, I am interested in writing a blog entry for beginner modding > Focused around Wings3D.

The gist of it: to make a basic fuel tank, or maybe engine, texture it, and get it in the game.

Would people find this useful?

*mulls it over...*

3 days later:

DEFINITELY!

[Niemand303]

ATV Beta

...

Also: As I have time to travel home and have a rest, I am interested in writing a blog entry for beginner modding > Focused around Wings3D.

The gist of it: to make a basic fuel tank, or maybe engine, texture it, and get it in the game.

Would people find this useful?

So much wonderful news! I totally like it, both the ATV and tutorial idea! On the tutorial, I'd vote on starting with an engine since it's more complex and the tutorial will be more complete

And of course, a separate tutorial on ow to make such beautiful textures as you have!

[Reddragon]

http://puu.sh/dCJGl/65f0396685.jpg

Sending supplies to the supply spacecraft? Perfect!

[DGatsby]

Sterling work on the ATV! I think the tutorial would as be quite interesting.

[passinglurker]

Likewise! Businfu's cost changes have been implemented into Vanilla Tantares. I look forward to see what he/she does next!

Edit: Also also, new release is soon. Need docking port / parachute for Fuji and Tantares 13 will be ready to go.

I'm especially looking forward to a more balanced version . Speaking of which is there some logic behind many of the pods being lighter than their stock counterparts yet they have much higher crash tolerance, bigger batteries, and much more power hungry reactions wheels or are some of these stats arbitrary?

[Beale]

DEFINITELY!

So much wonderful news! I totally like it, both the ATV and tutorial idea! On the tutorial, I'd vote on starting with an engine since it's more complex and the tutorial will be more complete

And of course, a separate tutorial on ow to make such beautiful textures as you have!

Sterling work on the ATV! I think the tutorial would as be quite interesting.

Well, okay, I would agree an engine is an easy place to start.

If people are liking the idea, good!

Thanks on the ATV

Sending supplies to the supply spacecraft? Perfect!

But, of course

I'm especially looking forward to a more balanced version . Speaking of which is there some logic behind many of the pods being lighter than their stock counterparts yet they have much higher crash tolerance, bigger batteries, and much more power hungry reactions wheels or are some of these stats arbitrary?

Basically, you are right, it's arbitrary.

I originally made the stats for myself, to make it more enjoyable to the way I play. Part of this was having crafts without batteries stuck to them.

With the new editor + My play style getting a bit more refine ('bit' being the key word) it's not so needed any more.

If people have balance suggestions, there is nothing easier to change, I'll pretty much certainly implement them if they are back up with science/maths/engineering, as I don't really have the skills to work out "correct" values myself.

Bonus 'Kliper' fluff

It's technically an SSTO, but the external tanks are jettisoned once in orbit, for a nice sleek re-entry.

Sunrise

Testing rendezvous and manouvering capacity

Begin re-entry

Supersonic flight

Landing (Ack, it was not meant to be vertical, but the parachute placement is wrong)

Edited December 21, 2014 by Beale

[Kitworks]

Also: As I have time to travel home and have a rest, I am interested in writing a blog entry for beginner modding > Focused around Wings3D.

The gist of it: to make a basic fuel tank, or maybe engine, texture it, and get it in the game.

Would people find this useful?

I'd love that! Excited about the new ATV too, I like your solution for the rear docking port.

[Jabbman]

Hi there Beale! Long time forum lurker just wanting to thank you for your mod. The one must have mod for any of my modded game files.

A tip of the hat to you sir!

[passinglurker]

Basically, you are right, it's arbitrary.

I originally made the stats for myself, to make it more enjoyable to the way I play. Part of this was having crafts without batteries stuck to them.

With the new editor + My play style getting a bit more refine ('bit' being the key word) it's not so needed any more.

If people have balance suggestions, there is nothing easier to change, I'll pretty much certainly implement them if they are back up with science/maths/engineering, as I don't really have the skills to work out "correct" values myself.

I don't know how well I'd do on the science/maths/engineering bit considering I'm talking about how well the parts fit in siting next to parts with stock stats which them selves can be pretty arbitrary at times but lets see...

@PART[Almach_Crew_A]
{
//Contrary to polar belief the spherical shape was not a weight saving design choice. 
//The Vostok reentry capsule alone was heavier than the Mercury because it couldn't control orientation during reentry and so the whole thing had to be covered in one big heat shield.
//While this made design relatively simple it was less efficient than the mercury which only had to carry enough heat shielding to cover one side of the pod.
//Now I'm not an activist for realism by any stretch but if you want this pod to be like the Vostok,
//and be capable of what the it could do compared to the mercury or kerbal mk1 pod then its weight is gonna need to be nerfed.
@mass = 1

//I don't know about you but being able to tumble into the atmosphere and not burn up makes the Vostok sound more robust
//And lets not forget the natural sturdiness of the spherical shape
//And the fact that the Vostok was made to come down on land vs. the Mercury's water landing/
//All these come together to give the Almach better crash tolerance than the mk1 pod
//But it still gets nerfed a little from where it was before because 45 edges in on the mk1 cockpit's turf.
@crashTolerance = 30

//The Vostok craft were based on spy satellites. 
//Spy satellites need to be good at orienting themselves to take pictures.
//And with the weight I added to the pod you are gonna want that extra torque to compensate.
//As for making them less power hungry lets be honest...
//At 60ECs you would have turned them off in favor of the first reaction wheel unlocked the first chance you got
//And if you are not gonna use them then whats the point in having them? 
//That means trying to punish you with power hungry wheels is futile so instead of letting the stats stick out like a sore thumb these get a buffed to bring them in line with stock.
@MODULE[ModuleReactionWheel]
{
	@PitchTorque = 7.5
	@YawTorque = 7.5
	@RollTorque = 7.5

	@RESOURCE
	{
		@rate = 0.3
	}
}

}

With this the Almach falls some where between the mk1 pod and the mk1 cockpit. Its heavier sadly but on the bright side its more capable of steering larger rockets, and as for cost and batteries while I pointed them out as odd stats I didn't change them her because the Vostok had more endurance than the mercury(hence more electric charge) and its at least within the suspension of disbelief that the Vostok was cheaper than mercury (less design work to make the sphere design functional, shares common parts with a frequently used spy satellite, and of course cold war secrecy and communist economics to fudge any numbers to the point that I can never be proven wrong(or right)) not to mention the cheapness helps make up for eating your mass budget.

geez did that take longer than expected or what? I was hoping to do all the pods in one post but it looks like I'm gonna have to come back to this assuming someone doesn't beat me to it also word of warning that mm config I typed up is untested and I'm bad at writing those things so apologies in advance if you use it and your ships get borked.

Edited December 21, 2014 by passinglurker

[Niemand303]

I don't know how well I'd do on the science/maths/engineering bit considering I'm talking about how well the parts fit in siting next to parts with stock stats which them selves can be pretty arbitrary at times but lets see...

@PART[Almach_Crew_A]
{
//Contrary to polar belief the spherical shape was not a weight saving design choice. 
//The Vostok reentry capsule alone was heavier than the Mercury because it couldn't control orientation during reentry and so the whole thing had to be covered in one big heat shield.
//While this made design relatively simple it was less efficient than the mercury which only had to carry enough heat shielding to cover one side of the pod.
//Now I'm not an activist for realism by any stretch but if you want this pod to be like the Vostok,
//and be capable of what the it could do compared to the mercury or kerbal mk1 pod then its weight is gonna need to be nerfed.
@mass = 1

//I don't know about you but being able to tumble into the atmosphere and not burn up makes the Vostok sound more robust
//And lets not forget the natural sturdiness of the spherical shape
//And the fact that the Vostok was made to come down on land vs. the Mercury's water landing/
//All these come together to give the Almach better crash tolerance than the mk1 pod
//But it still gets nerfed a little from where it was before because 45 edges in on the mk1 cockpit's turf.
@crashTolerance = 30

//The Vostok craft were based on spy satellites. 
//Spy satellites need to be good at orienting themselves to take pictures.
//And with the weight I added to the pod you are gonna want that extra torque to compensate.
//As for making them less power hungry lets be honest...
//At 60ECs you would have turned them off in favor of the first reaction wheel unlocked the first chance you got
//And if you are not gonna use them then whats the point in having them? 
//That means trying to punish you with power hungry wheels is futile so instead of letting the stats stick out like a sore thumb these get a buffed to bring them in line with stock.
@MODULE[ModuleReactionWheel]
{
	@PitchTorque = 7.5
	@YawTorque = 7.5
	@RollTorque = 7.5

	@RESOURCE
	{
		@rate = 0.3
	}
}

}

With this the Almach falls some where between the mk1 pod and the mk1 cockpit. Its heavier sadly but on the bright side its more capable of steering larger rockets, and as for cost and batteries while I pointed them out as odd stats I didn't change them her because the Vostok had more endurance than the mercury(hence more electric charge) and its at least within the suspension of disbelief that the Vostok was cheaper than mercury (less design work to make the sphere design functional, shares common parts with a frequently used spy satellite, and of course cold war secrecy and communist economics to fudge any numbers to the point that I can never be proven wrong(or right)) not to mention the cheapness helps make up for eating your mass budget.

geez did that take longer than expected or what? I was hoping to do all the pods in one post but it looks like I'm gonna have to come back to this assuming someone doesn't beat me to it also word of warning that mm config I typed up is untested and I'm bad at writing those things so apologies in advance if you use it and your ships get borked.

Erhm, a small correction, it's not Vostok derived from spy satellites, it's the satellites who used Vostok platform.