[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][Mars Expedition WIP]

[taniel0401]

Now i don't need Bacon Lab's Ariane mod anymore... what a shame...

Do I sense a hint of sarcasm?

[gavindresser1985]

Do I sense a hint of sarcasm?

What can we say, they tried, I downloaded it, just it was more dough than bread for my liking and so I am chuffed to have a Beale Ariane

[planeguy868]

The flipping will be the 1.0.2 aerodynamics, they suck completely as I am discovering (I'm not adding fins to my rockets, they shouldn't need fins!).

As for the general feedback, many thanks. It seems there are some TWR issues with the Soyuz rocket in particular.

Try deleting the partdatabase.cfg from the KSP root directory

Okay!

Yes I accidentally uploaded the working models folder for Ariane

Here is the in-game parts!

Apologies!

I agree with what others have said, maybe it's a bit OP in terms of thrust. Cutting thrust will increase burn time too, so the SRBs don't burn out in under a minute. Payload-capacity wise, It's good to LKO with a small upper stage (20 tons to LKO matches IRL specs), but to stationary orbit it doesn't quite have enough to get 7 or so tons there, so maybe a slight boost to the dV of the first stage is in order.

I don't know if you have a second stage planned, but having a thin, Tantares/stock colored 3.75m (and rescaleable) fuel tank would fill in that final "gap" in terms of tank lengths in the mod, and might not be a bad idea if you're up for the work. The rocket nerd in me cringed a little when someone suggested putting a Blok D on top of Ariane!

[Tinker1337]

Hi, first i want to thank Beale and all you guys that help for this awersome mod

Second I have some problem with the round parachutes, the ones that let you put more things on to of them.

They deploy normally but don´t decrease my velocity :/

And (probadly) two times they make the game crash to desktop (trying to land)

Anyone experience this?

[Beale]

Okay, L'Ariane. 1.0.2, 20-ton NRAP.

http://i.imgur.com/kk2zNO5.jpg

First of all: it's TOTALLY overpowered, especially boosters. Its ASL TWR is almost 3(!) at 100% thrust. I've tweaked boosters to 50%, and the engine to 80%. In such config, it flies very nice and smooth - no flips and such (at least with this ascend profile).

With 20-ton NRAP, it lacks about 500 m\s dV for 100x100 orbit - shouldn't be a problem if you have an upper stage (I think Blok-D would make a perfect match!).

Anyway, it's a very good rocket, especially useful for light but wide payloads.

Small bug(?): boosters tend to collide after separating.

Thank you for the feedback!

I'll try out your recommendations. shortly In my defense, I hadn't even begun to balance it ahaha.

Booster separation, I'll try adding the separation jets for more clean performance.

Okay

Ariane is really great looking, and very powerful, I guess I shouldn't fly it with light payloads..

Many thanks!

Should be good for light payloads, once balance is sorted...

I am chuffed to have a Beale Ariane

Thanks!

I agree with what others have said, maybe it's a bit OP in terms of thrust. Cutting thrust will increase burn time too, so the SRBs don't burn out in under a minute. Payload-capacity wise, It's good to LKO with a small upper stage (20 tons to LKO matches IRL specs), but to stationary orbit it doesn't quite have enough to get 7 or so tons there, so maybe a slight boost to the dV of the first stage is in order.

I don't know if you have a second stage planned, but having a thin, Tantares/stock colored 3.75m (and rescaleable) fuel tank would fill in that final "gap" in terms of tank lengths in the mod, and might not be a bad idea if you're up for the work. The rocket nerd in me cringed a little when someone suggested putting a Blok D on top of Ariane!

Thanks for the feedback!

Second stage is absolutely planned, however 3.75m I don't think so, the real Ariane upper stages (Which one was for ATV specifically?) look to be "2.5m" form factor (I.E. they fit inside fairings).

I do absolutely get the draw of some shorter 3.75m tanks though.

I am surprised no one has specifically nailed down on the first stage's 440 ISP main engine (It was supposed to be cryogenic, but worry about balance). Can I take it that is well received? I could reduce it's thrust somewhat further.

The main problem seems to be punchy and short-lived SRBs eh?

Hi, first i want to thank Beale and all you guys that help for this awersome mod

Second I have some problem with the round parachutes, the ones that let you put more things on to of them.

They deploy normally but don´t decrease my velocity :/

And (probadly) two times they make the game crash to desktop (trying to land)

Anyone experience this?

Hello, many thanks!

1st problem: Delete partdatabase.cfg in KSP main directory, forces game to calculate the parachute physics for this part again.

2nd problem: This may be unrelated to Tantares, but instead the memory leak introduced in 1.0.2, need to wait for Squad to fix!

Edited May 3, 2015 by Beale

[passinglurker]

I am surprised no one has specifically nailed down on the first stage's 440 ISP main engine (It was supposed to be cryogenic, but worry about balance). Can I take it that is well received? I could reduce it's thrust somewhat further.

The main problem seems to be punchy and short-lived SRBs eh?

I think that may be because no one has faith in stock balance anymore. With 1.0 some people (such as me) were dismissive and supporting of the quirks because they believed they would get better and that with the new 1.0 areo there was an expectation of finally getting a rather thorough and intelligent overhaul, but in reality nothing has changed balance wise other than engine stats, and the tech tree getting worse. So I don't think people get too hung up on stats relative to stock anymore as long as your stuff is balanced against itself. n_n

[Beale]

I think that may be because no one has faith in stock balance anymore. With 1.0 some people (such as me) were dismissive and supporting of the quirks because they believed they would get better and that with the new 1.0 areo there was an expectation of finally getting a rather thorough and intelligent overhaul, but in reality nothing has changed balance wise other than engine stats, and the tech tree getting worse. So I don't think people get too hung up on stats relative to stock anymore as long as your stuff is balanced against itself. n_n

Fair point.

Actually on this point I'm a little hung up on things, I've reverted the aerodynamic settings back to 1.0 levels, which will be giving me a false impression of things...

Hopefully by the end of the coming week aero will be finalized and I can actually balance.

[passinglurker]

Fair point.

Actually on this point I'm a little hung up on things, I've reverted the aerodynamic settings back to 1.0 levels, which will be giving me a false impression of things...

Hopefully by the end of the coming week aero will be finalized and I can actually balance.

I've done the same with my areo I'm in no mood for playing the flip flop game and I found 1.0 stats to be more fun so I'll keep with them until things settle. So basically business as "0.90-usual" then. (i.e. don't care about balance beyond what is needed for functionality and compatibility because its gonna change soon)

I suppose since the ariane is practically finished I should stop rearranging my tech tree, and work on the CARV instead... >.>

Edited May 3, 2015 by passinglurker

[Tinker1337]

...

1st problem: Delete partdatabase.cfg in KSP main directory, forces game to calculate the parachute physics for this part again.

2nd problem: This may be unrelated to Tantares, but instead the memory leak introduced in 1.0.2, need to wait for Squad to fix!

1st medicine done and all working EXCELENT

Many thanks from Argentina ^^

Edited May 3, 2015 by Tinker1337

[curtquarquesso]

Yeah, @Beale, I'd just wait on balance until Squad settles on how aero is going to get balanced. There's no way it's staying like it is at the moment.

Finals are through, so building begins! I also I have an IRL rocketry project I might share with you guys on Monday. Some may appreciate the name of the rocket.

Starting small, and working though each craft. WIP Antares w/Cygnus:

EDIT:

Something I've noticed early on working on the ATV and Ariane. The core Ariane tank isn't quite right. If you look at this picture:

The white section above the insulated *blocky* tank is empty space for avionics, and the interstage for the third stage. What I would do, is cut here, and allow people to build their own interstage out of procedural fairings and the like. You probably have a better grasp on what the aspect ratio of the tank should be. Could the problem be solved by extending the brick texture all the way up? Currently, if I replicate the Ariane accurately, the whole thing will be way too long, or I'll have to leave out a third stage. I was just planning on making my own third stage. Doesn't look too difficult. Other than that, all the parts look really slick. I'll let you know how they fly.

EDIT 2: Actually, scratch some of that. Now that I'm messing with the boosters, and I see them next to the tank, I'd extend the block texture about half the way up the white part, and then cut off the rest to leave room for an interstage.

Edited May 3, 2015 by curtquarquesso

[Revenant503]

I've reverted the aerodynamic settings back to 1.0 levels, which will be giving me a false impression of things...

Is there a setting to do this I've missed somewhere?

[Beale]

I suppose since the ariane is practically finished I should stop rearranging my tech tree, and work on the CARV instead... >.>

1st medicine done and all working EXCELENT

Many thanks from Argentina ^^

Good to hear!

Yeah, @Beale, I'd just wait on balance until Squad settles on how aero is going to get balanced. There's no way it's staying like it is at the moment.

Finals are through, so building begins! I also I have an IRL rocketry project I might share with you guys on Monday. Some may appreciate the name of the rocket.

Starting small, and working though each craft. WIP Antares w/Cygnus:

http://i.imgur.com/HrnptTm.jpg

EDIT:

Something I've noticed early on working on the ATV and Ariane. The core Ariane tank isn't quite right. If you look at this picture: http://blogs.esa.int/atv/files/2011/02/ATV_JKepler_AR5cutaway0.jpg

The white section above the insulated *blocky* tank is empty space for avionics, and the interstage for the third stage. What I would do, is cut here, http://i.imgur.com/e8U0qow.jpg and allow people to build their own interstage out of procedural fairings and the like. You probably have a better grasp on what the aspect ratio of the tank should be. Could the problem be solved by extending the brick texture all the way up? Currently, if I replicate the Ariane accurately, the whole thing will be way too long, or I'll have to leave out a third stage. I was just planning on making my own third stage. Doesn't look too difficult. Other than that, all the parts look really slick. I'll let you know how they fly.

EDIT 2: Actually, scratch some of that. Now that I'm messing with the boosters, and I see them next to the tank, I'd extend the block texture about half the way up the white part, and then cut off the rest to leave room for an interstage.

Nice Cygnus! Very snug inside those fairings.

About the Ariane:

Yeah, I'm aware of the VEB section, and it's interstage-ness. An awkward part for sure.

I'm not sure what can be done, you'll notice in that fairing cutaway image you put the fairing extends a far bit beyond the ATV, so even with an upper stage placed directly above the VEB instead of inside it, the overall length may not be bad.

Personally I wouldn't really like forcing folks to put together an inter-stage, it's a bit awkward.

Alternative: Make the upper stage slightly shorter, it's a blow to accuracy, but keeps things in scale overall.

Bleh!

Is there a setting to do this I've missed somewhere?

Physics.cfg in root Kerbal directory, you can edit it with values of 1.0, there was a guide in general discussion forum somewhere.

[curtquarquesso]

[i'm not sure what can be done, you'll notice in that fairing cutaway image you put the fairing extends a far bit beyond the ATV, so even with an upper stage placed directly above the VEB instead of inside it, the overall length may not be bad.

Personally I wouldn't really like forcing folks to put together an inter-stage, it's a bit awkward.

Yeah, interstage are tricky. One thing I'm now noticing, is how much room there is in the IRL Ariane fairing above the ATV. I think you're right. The overall length may not be that much off in the end, because the ATV and the third stage will take up some of that space in the end. Still playing around with it and trying to break it.

Sorry to keep rambling. This is just the first time in months I've had to really dig into Tantares and KSP. Is the ATV orbital engine ever getting an interstage fairing?

Here's my slap-dash attempt at a third stage plus interstage.

EDIT: Yeah, so don't worry about balancing at all right now. 1.0.2 is totally borked.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited May 3, 2015 by curtquarquesso

[Beale]

Yeah, interstage are tricky. One thing I'm now noticing, is how much room there is in the IRL Ariane fairing above the ATV. I think you're right. The overall length may not be that much off in the end, because the ATV and the third stage will take up some of that space in the end. Still playing around with it and trying to break it.

Sorry to keep rambling. This is just the first time in months I've had to really dig into Tantares and KSP. Is the ATV orbital engine ever getting an interstage fairing?

Here's my slap-dash attempt at a third stage plus interstage. http://i.imgur.com/7TiSegi.jpg

EDIT: Yeah, so don't worry about balancing at all right now. 1.0.2 is totally borked.

http://imgur.com/a/e4zRI

Ack! I keep meaning to give that engine a fairing, it'll get done no worries.

Looks nice!

[Helix935]

i just have to ask am i the only one having problems with part nodes? To be specific, the V-N6 Structural Hub seems to not want me to attach any parts to its side nodes, the top and bottom nodes seem to be working but it is making it impossible for me to build a station with the structural hub. Anyone have a fix?

[spacecookie]

Erected to the glory of the mighty loaf , the mighty launcher is the most compact rocket to a heavy payload that I have ever built, it is very stable and badass !

Javascript is disabled. View full album

After the pod felt on the ocean, I wanted Bill Bob and Valentina to climb upon the pod for the classy pic, when valentina tried to swim she woke up the kraken. Best way to end a journey 10/10 IGN.

Your heatshield is great Beale, I really appreciate the shape it gives to the mk1.2 pod

Edited May 3, 2015 by spacecookie

[Beale]

Thanks biohazard!

Suggested changes produced very pleasing results.

Got the 7 ton ATV into a 200x200km orbit.

Edit: Ack! Actually might want to hold off that, the fuel tank holds much less fuel than it should!

This is more or less the same problem we encountered with AB launchers, where because there is no LH2 analogue, the core tank will be much heavier (and require more thrust on the core engine).

A single short Nasa tank holds more than the whole Ariane.

i just have to ask am i the only one having problems with part nodes? To be specific, the V-N6 Structural Hub seems to not want me to attach any parts to its side nodes, the top and bottom nodes seem to be working but it is making it impossible for me to build a station with the structural hub. Anyone have a fix?

Thanks for finding, I think the nodes are defined oddly, I'll fix.

Erected to the glory of the mighty loaf , the mighty launcher is the most compact rocket to a heavy payload that I have ever built, it is very stable and badass !

http://imgur.com/a/X424j

After the pod felt on the ocean, I wanted Bill Bob and Valentina to climb upon the pod for the classy pic, when valentina tried to swim she woke up the kraken. Best way to end a journey 10/10 IGN.

Your heatshield is great Beale, I really appreciate the shape it gives to the mk1.2 pod

Nice stuff! First use I have seen of heatshield I think.

Nice use of N-1 bit for adapter too

Edited May 3, 2015 by Beale

[curtquarquesso]

WIP Kvant-2 Craft file update:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Also, spacecookie, I'll be asking for input from you from time to time. You have a good idea for greeble and what-not.

[Beale]

WIP Kvant-2 Craft file update:

http://imgur.com/a/4GHEZ

Also, spacecookie, I'll be asking for input from you from time to time. You have a good idea for greeble and what-not.

Looks nice!

The scaling of the solar panels is correct, but for the core module, the FGB modules are going to need smaller versions I think...

Ariane Beta 2

A little bit closer, I think.

Changed fuel amounts and SRB burn time.

The SRBs should burn out at about 10 kilometres in the air - after which the core will have ~ 1 TWR which will slowly build up as you ascend.

Comfortably got the ATV to 100x100km orbit and could go to 300x300 probably.

[curtquarquesso]

Looks nice!

The scaling of the solar panels is correct, but for the core module, the FGB modules are going to need smaller versions I think...

TweakScale configs to the rescue?

Ariane Beta 2

A little bit closer, I think.

Changed fuel amounts and SRB burn time.

The SRBs should burn out at about 10 kilometres in the air - after which the core will have ~ 1 TWR which will slowly build up as you ascend.

Comfortably got the ATV to 100x100km orbit and could go to 300x300 probably.

http://puu.sh/hAqwS/eee6ee1b2b.jpg

Woot! Sounds like better numbers. I'll load it up and try to break it.

[spacecookie]

WIP Kvant-2 Craft file update:

http://imgur.com/a/4GHEZ

Also, spacecookie, I'll be asking for input from you from time to time. You have a good idea for greeble and what-not.

About your kvant module, you are doing it right ! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Europa-Park_-_Euro-Mir_%2824%29.JPG/1280px-Europa-Park_-_Euro-Mir_%2824%29.JPG This picture describes well the mess you can put everywhere ! . If you are feeling really MacGyver you can try to use the small grey SRBs from tantares to detail even more your RCS spherical tanks, also the LK white and yellow antenna will be really useful if you work with this drawing.

( I love to use the vostok white antennas to recreate the hand railings .

Kvant 2 and Krystall are the most difficult station parts I have done, sadly I don't have them anymore and not even pictures.. I guess I will do another more detailed MNP !

The wiki picture is not from me obviously, and was taken in europa park, this mir space station replica can be visited and overshadows the waiting queue of a rollercoaster named " euro-mir " ( where there's the best techno ever, sometimes listening it while playing ) .. but next time I goes on trip to europa park I promise to come back with a lot of detailed pictures of this MIR replica, she is in her 1991 configuration I guess Kvant 1 / 2 and Krystall on.

Edited May 3, 2015 by spacecookie

[curtquarquesso]

About your kvant module, you are doing it right ! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Europa-Park_-_Euro-Mir_%2824%29.JPG/1280px-Europa-Park_-_Euro-Mir_%2824%29.JPG This picture describes well the mess you can put everywhere ! . If you are feeling really MacGyver you can try to use the small grey SRBs from tantares to detail even more your RCS spherical tanks, also the LK white and yellow antenna will be really useful if you work with this drawing.

( I love to use the vostok white antennas to recreate the hand railings .

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Kvant_2_module_drawing.png

Kvant 2 and Krystall are the most difficult station parts I have done, sadly I don't have them anymore and not even pictures.. I guess I will do another more detailed MNP !

The wiki picture is not from me obviously, and was taken in europa park, this mir space station replica can be visited and overshadows the waiting queue of a rollercoaster named " euro-mir " ( where there's the best techno ever, sometimes listening it while playing ) .. but next time I goes on trip to europa park I promise to come back with a lot of detailed pictures of this MIR replica, she is in her 1991 configuration I guess Kvant 1 / 2 and Krystall on.

Yes! Mir modules are insanely detailed, and changed quite a bit while they were up there. Would it have killed the Soviets to have taken a d@mn picture once and a while? I may make some small sacrifices for the sake of frames.

I'd love photos!

Update:http://i.imgur.com/4luzE0r.png

Edited May 3, 2015 by curtquarquesso

[spacecookie]

So far so good your kvant 2 is really great looking EDIT: that was a long radial RCS tank, not a mistery goo I was talking about, anyway you could replace it for kinda spectrometers, with tweakscale and a bit of practice with the part tools ( offset and rotate ) you can do nearly whatever you want . Here is my try

Use the smooth angle snap while manipulating a part with offset and rotate !

[MDBenson]

Hi, a few bugs to report :\

The Lower stage of the ALV is generating too much friction and overheats/explodes on launch with heavy payloads usually between 5,000m and 15,000m:

The TK Crew capsule descends under parachute the wrong way round:

The PP parachute seems to descend capsules at a WEIRD angle:

The Hama Control Block seems to have issues with node/surface position or scale when reloading:

Also noticed:

• 
  The passive docking ports don't attach right to the 6-way docking node
  The Alnair Cargo module (the one with the sliding doors) won't attach to anything
  The Pol cargo module doesn't burn up in the atmosphere
  

I love your mod and hope these pointers help Usual caveats apply that I'm using a few mods but, apart from RealChutes, I am not sure they'd affect the parts at all.

Edited May 3, 2015 by MDBenson

[Leszek]

I have a bug to report as well:

The Gemini parachute causes the capsule to descend on about a 45 degree angle. Just like the pp parachute above. (I am not sure which one that is, I don't think the PP one is Gemini.)