Any reason why KSP is mainly piloted space exploration?

[Javster]

Probes run on electricity: that's why you lost control

[cantab]

Re not needing to return, you don't *need* to return Kerballed missions either.

Re EVA, it's fine once you know what you're doing. Maybe it's too powerful, but then flying on the Mun with your jetpack is fun.

Edit: Regarding computery stuff, look at the kOS mod.

Edited June 1, 2014 by cantab

[WinkAllKerb'']

Usually tech develops:

1) automatic control (1st lousy then it gets better)

2) animals (to make sure people don't die)

3) humans

repeat 1 and 3 (2 can be omitted) for every next stage (moon, etc).

Also cooms are funny in this game. I made a automatically controlled vehicle and it looses control on the other side of the planet. I couldn't find any stock parts to fix this. Is this a planned feature for future releases?

1,1) or 4) vegetal, bacterian etc. (related to reproduce scheme & species perenity, food, energy etc.)

Edited June 1, 2014 by WinkAllKerb''

[USAGuerrilla]

I would actually love to see programmable flight computers (also enhancing existing staging stack and action groups into one system) so you could design executable commands run by ships, probes and rovers (this could also made signal delay an feasible idea). If anyone here remember Colo-bot will probably know what I mean.

I was thinking about the same thing. Adding Python to KSP won't be too difficult. Though I am new to the game and only wrote simple mods. Not sure how much I can customize the game. Things which I think should be changed:

- EVA

- Orbital maneuver editor

- Add launch maneuvers

- Crew transfer

[Guest]

Usually tech develops:

Your only frame of reference for usually is humans. Kerbal Space Program deals with kerbals, not humans, who most likely developed technology differently.

[HeadHunter67]

The reason KSP is mainly piloted flights is because it's called Kerbal Space Program, not Unmanned Space Program.

[AndrewBCrisp]

regex has a point. Kerbal culture and history probably have a different take on rocketry than ours.

Our development of rockets capable of reaching space happened during one of the darkest chapters in our species' history: the whole nationalistic mess between 1939 and 1991. Dreams of exploring space were only peripheral to our leaders - the primary goal for rocket development was unmanned weapons. First guided missiles like the V-2, followed by long-range missiles and ultimately ICBMs with nuclear warheads. This is not to say that we don't have visionaries who want to see humans thrive on other planets - but those visionaries often had to compromise their dreams: "Let me build a rocket capable of reaching space, and I'll build missiles for you to flatten London." "Send three humans to the Moon and we'll give you the power to destroy all civilization in exchange."

Kerbals may be different. I've noted before that Squad's insistence on not incorporating weapons into the game suggests that Kerbal civilization is more peaceful than ours. An emphasis on un-Kerballed rockets for war is therefore not present. This means that Kerbals might apply different strategies to getting to space.

Sadly, this lesson seems hard to get across to people, especially judging from all the fanfic that simply takes our history and maps it onto Kerbin with only minor name changes, and all the cries from fans to incorporate a "space race" mentality into career mode. We seem unwilling to learn the true lessons of our abortive space era and of how nationalism harmed spaceflight far more than it helped.

[Pecan]

I was thinking about the same thing. Adding Python to KSP won't be too difficult...

Apart from KOS, which is a self-contained programmable autopilot, there are python and Lua mods. *grin* Lua always seems like it should be the choice for any KSP scripting language to me, since it means 'Moon'.

I've read your complaint about EVA in another post but I'm afraid it sounds like "I don't want to learn EVA". Practice!

Manoeuvre nodes have recently been improved - what exactly do you think should be changed about them? NOT - what would be most realistic if we had teams of mathematicians and physicists with months in which to plan missions - but an easy way for us to see a 'computer simulation' of the effects of different burns?

Not sure what you mean about launch manoeuvres, but if you want an autopilot for them use KOS or MJ. If you just want to set and see an ascent path use MJ but don't let it fly the launch, just show it.

Crew transfer without having to do EVA is a bit of a pain and one of the first things I asked about when I started KSP. Use Crew Manifest or the more flexible Ship Manifest mod. EVA really is pretty quick and easy once you get used to it though.

[DaPatman]

The following is my headcanon regarding the start of career mode:

The Kerbal Space Program is a lot different from the Human Space Program. The latter is almost entirely politically motivated (or at least it was for the first few decades) - if the Americans and Soviets hadn't each decided they wanted to get there before the other superpower, we may well have still not gone to space yet.

This was never the case with the kerbals - they are all, to a kerbal, obsessed with space, and have wanted to see what it's like up there ever since they first looked up at night. Only now are they beginning to develop the technology to let them do that, and even then they shouldn't really be able to pull it off yet - all they've got to build their first rocket with are whatever they can find in a junkyard. They certainly don't yet have the technology to build a probe that can fly a rocket by remote, but even if they did, why would they? They want to know what it's like up there, and a probe can't tell you that.

Sure, they might one day start sending probes up there to do certain tasks, but right now, they have neither the technology, nor, indeed, the desire to do so. Now get in that command pod, Jeb. You're going to space today.

[USAGuerrilla]

regex has a point. Kerbal culture and history probably have a different take on rocketry than ours.

Our development of rockets capable of reaching space happened during one of the darkest chapters in our species' history: the whole nationalistic mess between 1939 and 1991. Dreams of exploring space were only peripheral to our leaders - the primary goal for rocket development was unmanned weapons. First guided missiles like the V-2, followed by long-range missiles and ultimately ICBMs with nuclear warheads. This is not to say that we don't have visionaries who want to see humans thrive on other planets - but those visionaries often had to compromise their dreams: "Let me build a rocket capable of reaching space, and I'll build missiles for you to flatten London." "Send three humans to the Moon and we'll give you the power to destroy all civilization in exchange."

Kerbals may be different. I've noted before that Squad's insistence on not incorporating weapons into the game suggests that Kerbal civilization is more peaceful than ours. An emphasis on un-Kerballed rockets for war is therefore not present. This means that Kerbals might apply different strategies to getting to space.

Sadly, this lesson seems hard to get across to people, especially judging from all the fanfic that simply takes our history and maps it onto Kerbin with only minor name changes, and all the cries from fans to incorporate a "space race" mentality into career mode. We seem unwilling to learn the true lessons of our abortive space era and of how nationalism harmed spaceflight far more than it helped.

Your point about Kerbals 1st sending Kerbals to space can be read as Kerbal government doesn't give a #$%^ if Kerbals will die. So even if we had wars on Earth we did care enough only to send astronauts to space after making sure they WILL survive.

Also I am not sure if your points are correct based on the fact that planet is empty, they might have killed all but rocket scientists and astronauts already and trying to destroy rest of the universe (they only look cute).

Edited June 1, 2014 by USAGuerrilla

[cantab]

Regarding how the Kerbal's program differs from those of human nations, it can't be overlooked that the Kerbals have it easy. Even with Kerbin's soupy atmosphere to contend with, they still only need about half the delta-V, and can thus knock up their space rockets from cheap, robust, but low-performing parts.

[USAGuerrilla]

Apart from KOS, which is a self-contained programmable autopilot, there are python and Lua mods. *grin* Lua always seems like it should be the choice for any KSP scripting language to me, since it means 'Moon'.

I've read your complaint about EVA in another post but I'm afraid it sounds like "I don't want to learn EVA". Practice!

Manoeuvre nodes have recently been improved - what exactly do you think should be changed about them? NOT - what would be most realistic if we had teams of mathematicians and physicists with months in which to plan missions - but an easy way for us to see a 'computer simulation' of the effects of different burns?

Not sure what you mean about launch manoeuvres, but if you want an autopilot for them use KOS or MJ. If you just want to set and see an ascent path use MJ but don't let it fly the launch, just show it.

Crew transfer without having to do EVA is a bit of a pain and one of the first things I asked about when I started KSP. Use Crew Manifest or the more flexible Ship Manifest mod. EVA really is pretty quick and easy once you get used to it though.

I told you that my dude bounces from the ship at high speed even if I am going slow.

[AndrewBCrisp]

USAGuerrilla: My point was that we wanted weapons first, and spacecraft second, not "we care/don't care about the safety of our pilots".

Spaceflight is risky, I think we can all agree on that. Even rockets that fly perfectly every time still have a chance of failing; whether they are crewed or uncrewed doesn't change that. I expect the Kerbals know the risks every bit as much as we do. But since their goals are spacecraft first, missiles maybe or even never, they may as well test the whole package, and would probably perform ground tests more extensively than we would for reasons of safety. But in the end, a Kerbal still has to risk his/her/its life getting into the capsule and lighting the engine.

[Alguien]

Any reason why KSP is mainly piloted space exploration?

Jeb is popular with the kids, a̶s̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶, so Squad pushes for him to be the first "thing" a new player sees, space exploration story be dammed.

As far as i know for talking with Max, they are going to do the same when they add girlbals.

[G'th]

I think the real question is why you get rocket parts before plane parts. All intentional silliness aside, it is much more odder that that is the case rather than the emphasis on vessels being manned.

[USAGuerrilla]

USAGuerrilla: My point was that we wanted weapons first, and spacecraft second, not "we care/don't care about the safety of our pilots".

Spaceflight is risky, I think we can all agree on that. Even rockets that fly perfectly every time still have a chance of failing; whether they are crewed or uncrewed doesn't change that. I expect the Kerbals know the risks every bit as much as we do. But since their goals are spacecraft first, missiles maybe or even never, they may as well test the whole package, and would probably perform ground tests more extensively than we would for reasons of safety. But in the end, a Kerbal still has to risk his/her/its life getting into the capsule and lighting the engine.

yes. How about we didn't know if people,can really survive in weitlessness and we sent monkeys.

how about lots of failed starts at the beginning.

anyway discussing social, moral and other issues of code isn't a thing I want to do. My post was more like a failed joke.

[Guest]

Jeb is popular with the kids, a̶s̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶, so Squad pushes for him to be the first "thing" a new player sees, space exploration story be dammed.

Great point, actually. No adult could possibly find a space exploration story about overly-enthusiastic little green men compelling in any way unless it perfectly followed the human technological progression into space.

[impwarhamer]

Personally, I like the idea of staging my space program, first with probes then manned missions and whatnot.

Equally however, I love the idea of gathering your ragtag group of kerbal adventurers and blasting off to the nearest planet with little preparation in the spirit of a Victorian style expedition.

[USAGuerrilla]

Would be neat if game has different campaigns.

- Manned/easy (no life support, etc)

- Unmanned 1st, than manned/hard (life support, etc)

This will fit both camps! Don't get me wrong I do love manned mission but when I launch test vehicle I don't want to have a Kerbal in it in case it blows up (and some do for instance on stages separations or overheats of solid busters and I do not revert, failure is a failure).

[ArmchairGravy]

When I see a probe scream as it gets hurled into orbit I will use them. Until then I'm gonna make Bob pee himself.

[USAGuerrilla]

When I see a probe scream as it gets hurled into orbit I will use them. Until then I'm gonna make Bob pee himself.

I am glad people like you play KSP and do not work in NASA, Space-X.

[Guest]

Would be neat if game has different campaigns.

- Manned/easy (no life support, etc)

- Unmanned 1st, than manned/hard (life support, etc)

This is a great idea, actually. Since probes are pretty much "easy mode", involving little risk and being much lighter than manned craft, it would allow less skilled players a chance to get used to the game before committing to a proper, full-blown space program. But there really needs to be an option for "manned/hard 1st" so the more experienced crowd doesn't get left out...

[MarvinKitFox]

Usually tech develops:

1) automatic control (1st lousy then it gets better)

2) animals (to make sure people don't die)

3) humans

repeat 1 and 3 (2 can be omitted) for every next stage (moon, etc).

Also cooms are funny in this game. I made a automatically controlled vehicle and it looses control on the other side of the planet. I couldn't find any stock parts to fix this. Is this a planned feature for future releases?

So what animal replaced the automatic control on the Wright Flyer?

Or on the x-15 flights?

The *only* time animals were used instead of humans was with the very first space launches, and then only because a dog or chimp is *lighter* than a human. And cause less negative fallout when they talk to the press afterwards!

[Pecan]

I told you that my dude bounces from the ship at high speed even if I am going slow.

(Re: EVA and all that) - They do bounce off but it shouldn't be at any significantly higher speed than they were closing. Much as I detest videos it might be necessary to see one of your EVAs because this sounds like you're having bugs, not difficulties :-(

As with docking we are talking very slow here. No instruments in EVA so no absolute figures but the quote I remember (unfortunately not who said it though) is "If you think you're moving [relative to the target] you are. If you know you're moving, you are going too fast."

[USAGuerrilla]

So what animal replaced the automatic control on the Wright Flyer?

Or on the x-15 flights?

The *only* time animals were used instead of humans was with the very first space launches, and then only because a dog or chimp is *lighter* than a human. And cause less negative fallout when they talk to the press afterwards!

Just as a side note. Wright brothers didn't fly to space.

On another note read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgolfier_brothers

The balloon was sky blue and decorated with golden flourishes, signs of the zodiac, and suns. The design showed the intervention of Réveillon. The next test was on the 11th of September from the grounds of la Folie Titon, close to Réveillon's house. There was some concern about the effects of flight into the upper atmosphere on living creatures. The king proposed to launch two criminals, but it is most likely that the inventors decided to send a sheep, a duck, and a rooster aloft first.

Edited June 2, 2014 by USAGuerrilla