ModStatistics 1.0.3 - Anonymous mod usage statistics - Now for public distribution!

[IceShade]

If you want to opt out, rather than getting frustrated trying to delete it from everything that includes it (I plan to ship it with my mods when I get round to it) why not just follow the simple instructions that tell you how to opt out?

What. What? No!

It should be opt-in in the first place, not opt-out.

[codepoet]

It should be opt-in...

But it isn't, the author is clear that it won't be, and other modders want to include it anyway. So rather than huffing and puffing I suggest you just set it to disabled and move on with your lives.

[Ippo]

Also, please keep in my mind that by not opting out you are effectively helping the authors of the mods you like.

When Majiir will get the stats site running again, when I'll look for a job I'll be able to say "look, the mod I coded has X active users this month", which isn't bad for a resume.

[Mecripp]

Also, please keep in my mind that by not opting out you are effectively helping the authors of the mods you like.

When Majiir will get the stats site running again, when I'll look for a job I'll be able to say "look, the mod I coded has X active users this month", which isn't bad for a resume.

Is sad to see some modder's jumping on this bandwagon when the Modder doesn't put it in all his mods and truth is you just need 1 anyway so not all mods need it in there mod's if people want it you can post a link and we can add it the way everyone is doing it you are tricky some people in to getting it and thats just wrong.

EDIT- The only thing that should be in a Mod is be that modders pack if other plugin from another mod is need just tell us what and alink that way everyone has up-to-date plugin and don't have 10 of the samething running the samething just like modders putting toolbar folder in there and ModuleManager.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Mecripp2

[DMagic]

Is sad to see some modder's jumping on this bandwagon when the Modder doesn't put it in all his mods and truth is you just need 1 anyway so not all mods need it in there mod's if people want it you can post a link and we can add it the way everyone is doing it you are tricky some people in to getting it and thats just wrong.

You would only need it in one mod if everyone used that mod, but that isn't the case. If a dozen or so popular mods add this, then it will cover most of the user base. Having multiple copies of the plugin installed does nothing but add a few milliseconds during the initial loading, so it's not as if this will create some performance issue if someone has fifteen copies installed.

And it's only 'tricking' people into using it if they can't read or comprehend a few simple sentences.

[okan170]

But it isn't, the author is clear that it won't be, and other modders want to include it anyway. So rather than huffing and puffing I suggest you just set it to disabled and move on with your lives.

Well thats not very constructive. People have raised serious objections to the way this is being handled, and simply saying "deal with it" in this case isn't addressing any of their concerns. This is an issue that I suspect will have implications far beyond this mod or even just the other mods that bundle it, and I hope in the end its not something that has to involve clarification of the rights and responsibilities of the mod community.

If I'm offered the opportunity to help out, sure why not? "Tricking" folks in to installing something unrelated to the mod they're trying to download or making it difficult to disable all make this a very uncomfortable situation, leaving the opt-out process for those who can be bothered to look it up and execute it, a process that cannot be said to be readily understandable by every user here. It makes the process unnecessarily complex and it seems to have been created this way intentionally to discourage people from disabling it. Doing the right thing by the community here would be to simply have a startup tick box like the Squad one. Yes or no.

Data on mod usage is good and helpful, but its really not worth damaging the trust of the community to have.

[Ippo]

Is sad to see some modder's jumping on this bandwagon

I have 3 mods for download: you will notice I'm not including this in any of them.

I won't comment on the rest because I honestly don't understand your post.

[RoverDude]

Well thats not very constructive. People have raised serious objections to the way this is being handled, and simply saying "deal with it" in this case isn't addressing any of their concerns. This is an issue that I suspect will have implications far beyond this mod or even just the other mods that bundle it, and I hope in the end its not something that has to involve clarification of the rights and responsibilities of the mod community.

If I'm offered the opportunity to help out, sure why not? "Tricking" folks in to installing something unrelated to the mod they're trying to download or making it difficult to disable all make this a very uncomfortable situation, leaving the opt-out process for those who can be bothered to look it up and execute it, a process that cannot be said to be readily understandable by every user here. It makes the process unnecessarily complex and it seems to have been created this way intentionally to discourage people from disabling it. Doing the right thing by the community here would be to simply have a startup tick box like the Squad one. Yes or no.

Data on mod usage is good and helpful, but its really not worth damaging the trust of the community to have.

I concur. While the purpose is noble, having this as an Opt-In default with a hoop to jump through to opt out is just... to be blunt... shady. I for one will not be including it in any of my mods unless/until such time as (ideally) opt-out is the default or (alternatively, and compromise is a good thing) Opt-in is the default but I can turn that off easilly when the mod loads, and that choice is respected by further installations.

[Mecripp]

I have 3 mods for download: you will notice I'm not including this in any of them.

I won't comment on the rest because I honestly don't understand your post.

To be Honesty from what you posted

Also, please keep in my mind that by not opting out you are effectively helping the authors of the mods you like.

When Majiir will get the stats site running again, when I'll look for a job I'll be able to say "look, the mod I coded has X active users this month", which isn't bad for a resume.

here if on your OP if you posted something like that and ask people to download ModStatistics, I would be more likey to use it but by adding it and Tricking some people in to using it turns me away from it and some from your mod.

[Ippo]

I concur. While the purpose is noble, having this as an Opt-In default with a hoop to jump through to opt out is just... to be blunt... shady. I for one will not be including it in any of my mods unless/until such time as (ideally) opt-out is the default or (alternatively, and compromise is a good thing) Opt-in is the default but I can turn that off easilly when the mod loads, and that choice is respected by further installations.

So much this. I'll say it again at the cost of being annoying: we really need a popup at the first installation.

[Mecripp]

You would only need it in one mod if everyone used that mod, but that isn't the case. If a dozen or so popular mods add this, then it will cover most of the user base. Having multiple copies of the plugin installed does nothing but add a few milliseconds during the initial loading, so it's not as if this will create some performance issue if someone has fifteen copies installed.

And it's only 'tricking' people into using it if they can't read or comprehend a few simple sentences.

You are Tricking people because some People have a hard time just to install any mod or game not to be rude to anyone.

EDIT- And they think you did something to those files that the need to run your mod and some won't read the OP but thats not your fault.

EDIT- IT would be better to Ask people to help then Tricking them.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Mecripp2

[enneract]

I personally think that the furor about this is a little bit overblown.

[okan170]

I personally think that the furor about this is a little bit overblown.

Overblown or not, people are uncomfortable about it. And, as in anything, that should be addressed. Just as I'd want someone to address a mod that accidentally deleted say, all science data from a ship. Maybe it only happens sometimes, but its still something that should be looked at. Simply waving it off with "no big deal" just puts off what is, now, an inevitable conversation. And its a conversation that we should have; the possibility of a tool like this, where people knowingly want to contribute and help out would be wonderful. Especially since this is an issue which touches on issues beyond the game for many. I know my own concerns would disappear if it just asked.

We all deal with issues of privacy and deciding what and what is not a security concern for us individually in our lives. With something that does this kind of reporting, being polite never hurts. Even having a simple label to put on the banner of mods bundled with it (like, "With ModStatistics!" and a cute graphic) Lots of people welcome the opportunity to contribute to community efforts, but that doesn't mean that they are okay with that info being handed back without asking. No one is entitled to that data, but if someone asks, or is very open about the process (and how to easily disable it if you wish), it makes the person involved feel like, even with very little effort, they're giving something back. This could be a good moment for the KSP community, and it could show that even if issues come up, we could work a solution to the problem that makes everyone happy. (After all, its what the game is about!)

[Initar]

I personally think that the furor about this is a little bit overblown.

That it is. But paranoia tends to be justified ont the internet these days. I doubt ther's any evil plan to control the lives of KSP players behind it, but a legitimate concern would be: is it all legal? I don't want to see Majiir having troubles because of this. What we need is a lawyer xD

[Mecripp]

Just found this http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/86961-0-24-BetterThanSpyware-Still-not-as-good-as-Opt-In and Some modder should read some of the post to funny and no more the website shows don't see really what help it can be beside of what Ippo posted, And maybe for some to get a big head and say look my mods better.

[enneract]

Just found this http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/86961-0-24-BetterThanSpyware-Still-not-as-good-as-Opt-In and Some modder should read some of the post to funny and no more the website shows don't see really what help it can be beside of what Ippo posted, And maybe for some to get a big head and say look my mods better.

Does not parse? Try re-sentence?

[Kamuchi]

Besides the above, when people include it as a sub mod then ala... but why the hell would I want/allow a mod that installs itself into my GameData directory on itself?

I trust other mods that do read/write to files outside of their mod directory to stick to files for persistent storage, like ScanSat, Toolbar etc.

Not to download or clone itself with sending data, we have enough real world examples to cover that topic.

As was also stated, people including other mods in their own is unbelievable frustrating as they keep distributing old versions!

Today alone I had a headache with Firespitter, download the new .24 version but every ones adds the older one, same with ModuleManager.

If mod developers really want to use this for their mods then they should make it a required mod, so it won`t work without it or they simply put a big red box asking us.

Also I am not quite sure why you would want our hardware, OS, 32/64bit and if it`s a steam install.

Using our IP`s to generate a localization chart?

I will stick with only allowing squad to receive my data.

var platform = Environment.OSVersion.Platform;
if (platform == PlatformID.Unix)
{
if (Directory.Exists("/Applications") && Directory.Exists("/Users") && Directory.Exists("/Volumes") && Directory.Exists("/System"))
{
return Platform.Mac;
}
else
{
return Platform.Linux;
}
}
else if (platform == PlatformID.MacOSX)
{
return Platform.Mac;
}
else
{
return Platform.Windows;
}
}

private static Platform getRunningPlatform()        {

private static bool installedWithSteam()
{
var path = KSPUtil.ApplicationRootPath;
return path.Contains(@"SteamApps\common") || path.Contains(@"SteamApps/common");
}

started = started,
finished = sceneStarted,
crashed = crashed,
statisticsVersion = version,
platform = getRunningPlatform(),
id = id.ToString("N"),
installedWithSteam = installedWithSteam(),
gameVersion = new
{
build = Versioning.BuildID,
major = Versioning.version_major,
minor = Versioning.version_minor,
revision = Versioning.Revision,
experimental = Versioning.Experimental,
isBeta = Versioning.isBeta,
isSteam = Versioning.IsSteam,
is64 = IntPtr.Size == 8,
},
scenes = sceneTimes.OrderBy(p => p.Key).ToDictionary(p => p.Key.ToString().ToLower(), p => p.Value.TotalMilliseconds),
systemInfo = new {
cpus = SystemInfo.processorCount,
gpuMemory = SystemInfo.graphicsMemorySize,
gpuVendorId = SystemInfo.graphicsDeviceVendorID,
systemMemory = SystemInfo.systemMemorySize,
},
assemblies = assembliesInfo,
};

var report = new            {

Edited July 19, 2014 by Kamuchi

[ecat]

I personally think that the furor about this is a little bit overblown.

Hum.

The sending of any kind of user data without first requesting permission from the user is probably illegal in Europe.

Defaulting to opt in without providing an obvious and simple means of opting out is probably illegal in Europe.

If this mod were ever to make its way into, say, a school environment SQUAD could end up facing some embarrassing questions or worst case, a law suit.

Let me repeat, this is simple fact: In its current form this mod is probably illegal in some areas and as such could result in legal action to be taken against SQUAD.

[enneract]

…or maybe the author can stop being a little twit and make it opt-in since he can't come up with a sensible reason for it not being so (and no, “I want the data and would miss out†is not a sensible reason  it's being an entitled brat, which will only ever make him and his mod actively targeted for all kinds of destructive action and turn the entire modding community toxic).

Uh, the ones acting like 'entitled brats' are the people who are calling the guy who is making mods for public enjoyment 'little twits' because they don't like an optional feature designed to facilitate the development of said mod.

That's an excellent reason for having it opt-in, yes. If you like the mod, you can help the author an unrelated third party by providing data.

Not sure where you are getting 'unrelated third party' from.

In other words, it is tricking people by not asking for their permission and not automatically providing them with any kind of information about what is about to happen.

Plenty of information is given, and the author specifically requires any other mod using this to notify its users of such.

[Ippo]

legal action to be taken again SQUAD.

Very unlikely, since Squad doesn't endorse or distribute this mod in any way.

[Kamuchi]

Uh, the ones acting like 'entitled brats' are the people who are calling the guy who is making mods for public enjoyment 'little twits' because they don't like an optional feature designed to facilitate the development of said mod.

Not sure where you are getting 'unrelated third party' from.

Plenty of information is given, and the author specifically requires any other mod using this to notify its users of such.

The problem is not sending stats about certain mods.

Look at the source code, it collects alot more info

var platform = Environment.OSVersion.Platform;
if (platform == PlatformID.Unix)
{
if (Directory.Exists("/Applications") && Directory.Exists("/Users") && Directory.Exists("/Volumes") && Directory.Exists("/System"))
{
return Platform.Mac;
}
else
{
return Platform.Linux;
}
}
else if (platform == PlatformID.MacOSX)
{
return Platform.Mac;
}
else
{
return Platform.Windows;
}
}

private static Platform getRunningPlatform()        {

private static bool installedWithSteam()
{
var path = KSPUtil.ApplicationRootPath;
return path.Contains(@"SteamApps\common") || path.Contains(@"SteamApps/common");
}

started = started,
finished = sceneStarted,
crashed = crashed,
statisticsVersion = version,
platform = getRunningPlatform(),
id = id.ToString("N"),
installedWithSteam = installedWithSteam(),
gameVersion = new
{
build = Versioning.BuildID,
major = Versioning.version_major,
minor = Versioning.version_minor,
revision = Versioning.Revision,
experimental = Versioning.Experimental,
isBeta = Versioning.isBeta,
isSteam = Versioning.IsSteam,
is64 = IntPtr.Size == 8,
},
scenes = sceneTimes.OrderBy(p => p.Key).ToDictionary(p => p.Key.ToString().ToLower(), p => p.Value.TotalMilliseconds),
systemInfo = new {
cpus = SystemInfo.processorCount,
gpuMemory = SystemInfo.graphicsMemorySize,
gpuVendorId = SystemInfo.graphicsDeviceVendorID,
systemMemory = SystemInfo.systemMemorySize,
},
assemblies = assembliesInfo,
};

var report = new            {

I have to add that I have great fun because of mods, especially Kethane from Majiir so I have respect and I hope that what I say will not be seen as an attack, just a big issue with this particular mod.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Kamuchi

[enneract]

The problem is not sending stats about certain mods.

Look at the source code, it collects alot more info

If I were collecting metrics for a KSP mod, that is what I would collect.

It gives the author an idea about how much performance-costing feature he can reasonably expect to add and have most users able to use, it gives him an idea as to which platforms might need more support, and if there is a good reason to keep supporting old versions of KSP.

Totally reasonable.

[TheDamDog]

The problem is not sending stats about certain mods.

Look at the source code, it collects alot more info

var platform = Environment.OSVersion.Platform;
if (platform == PlatformID.Unix)
{
if (Directory.Exists("/Applications") && Directory.Exists("/Users") && Directory.Exists("/Volumes") && Directory.Exists("/System"))
{
return Platform.Mac;
}
else
{
return Platform.Linux;
}
}
else if (platform == PlatformID.MacOSX)
{
return Platform.Mac;
}
else
{
return Platform.Windows;
}
}

private static Platform getRunningPlatform()        {

private static bool installedWithSteam()
{
var path = KSPUtil.ApplicationRootPath;
return path.Contains(@"SteamApps\common") || path.Contains(@"SteamApps/common");
}

started = started,
finished = sceneStarted,
crashed = crashed,
statisticsVersion = version,
platform = getRunningPlatform(),
id = id.ToString("N"),
installedWithSteam = installedWithSteam(),
gameVersion = new
{
build = Versioning.BuildID,
major = Versioning.version_major,
minor = Versioning.version_minor,
revision = Versioning.Revision,
experimental = Versioning.Experimental,
isBeta = Versioning.isBeta,
isSteam = Versioning.IsSteam,
is64 = IntPtr.Size == 8,
},
scenes = sceneTimes.OrderBy(p => p.Key).ToDictionary(p => p.Key.ToString().ToLower(), p => p.Value.TotalMilliseconds),
systemInfo = new {
cpus = SystemInfo.processorCount,
gpuMemory = SystemInfo.graphicsMemorySize,
gpuVendorId = SystemInfo.graphicsDeviceVendorID,
systemMemory = SystemInfo.systemMemorySize,
},
assemblies = assembliesInfo,
};

var report = new            {

Translation, from what I can see:

OS and OS version

Mac or Windows

Whether or not you use Steam

Time you start the game

Time you finish the game

Game crashes

If the game was installed with Steam

What version of the game you're using (Build ID, major revisions, minor revisions, if you're using a beta version or not, if you're using 64 bit or not)

System information, including number and speed of CPUs, GPU(graphics card) memory, GPU manufacturer, system RAM

Yeah, not OK with that unless you ask me to opt-in.

[okan170]

If I were collecting metrics for a KSP mod, that is what I would collect.

It gives the author an idea about how much performance-costing feature he can reasonably expect to add and have most users able to use, it gives him an idea as to which platforms might need more support, and if there is a good reason to keep supporting old versions of KSP.

Totally reasonable.

The request would be reasonable. Its the method that isn't.

[Tippis]

Uh, the ones acting like 'entitled brats' are the people who are calling the guy who is making mods for public enjoyment 'little twits' because they don't like an optional feature designed to facilitate the development of said mod.

Only in the sense that, yes, they are entitled to not having their data sent all over the place without being asked to. The brat part is only with the author since he can't come up with a good reason for not making it opt-in: he somehow (and 100% incorrectly) feels that he is entitled to that data.

Oh, and it's not really optional if you have to jump through hoops to get rid of it.

Not sure where you are getting 'unrelated third party' from.

The data is sent to a third party, not the mod author.

Plenty of information is given, and the author specifically requires any other mod using this to notify its users of such.

So when I download the mod from a random link, install it, and start up KSP, it will say “oh hey, this mod you downloaded for purpose X will also provide ‘service’ Y, meaning it will send data to (unrelated) party Y unless you jump through the following hoops…� No. No such information is given.