ModStatistics 1.0.3 - Anonymous mod usage statistics - Now for public distribution!

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

People are stumbling at the 'Figure out where it is and remove it?' stage? Seriously?

Just search 'GameData' directory for ModStatistics.dll

Return from my GameData directory:

Three copies of Modstatistics.dll, each in a mod folder they came with.

and one copy of ModStatistics-1.0.3.dll, in the ModStatistics folder.

Done.

Estimated time to complete: 15 seconds.

Select all, delete.

Running KSP to confirm non-recloning...

Done: ModStatistics has been completely removed from my KSP directory in its entirety. No instances of ModStatistics were recreated with that run.

I did it in fifteen seconds, one search term, and a single sweep of select and delete. You know what that makes me?

*Puts on his serious face*

It makes me VERY disappointed in people around here. You're already doing what qualifies as at least standard computer-literate tasks just to INSTALL your mods. But there is a distinct lack of BASIC tasks such as search skills, and basic reading skills that is all that is needed, as I have SHOWN in the above procedure, to remove ModStatistics in its entirety.

Majir and co won't say it because they're trying to play Good PR and not be toxic, but I'm not afraid to say that a lack of basic skill is shocking, if not disgusting.

Now, they're going to work to make it nice and pretty GUI point and click for you, but I'm going to mention a few things because someone needs to say it, and say it clearly and firmly because the attitude towards them I've been seeing is completely uncalled for and worthy of a few slaps to the back of the skull.

1: Relearn your basic PC skillsets. I find you lacking if you stumble on this but not mod installation.

2: You were never 'forced' to opt in. If you've ever read past the first line of any End User License Agreement, EVER, you'd realize: 'that in downloading and installing this software you agree to sell your soul' is a completely valid turn of phrase, and the most common first line of legal defense in the software industry. Any variation of something like that either directly or indirectly (with varying levels of Legalese) is usually enough for a rock solid legal defense and a firm establishment of which party is at fault. (Hint: The End User, you.)

The mods that are starting to package this with them ARE pointing out they are putting it into them, and this mod CLEARLY tells you what it does. If you installed having read that information, you are at fault for disregarding it. If you installed this without reading that information, I have to wonder what contracts I could get you to sign without reading. Because seriously, if you can't do your homework...

Anyway, given that, your only viable actions are:

a: Download and install the host mod (opt in)

b: Don't Download and install the host mod (opt out)

c: Download and install, but take a few steps to remove ModStatistics (opt out)

Being too lazy to read up on it or complaining that it's 'too hard' to remove when it's easier than a google search isn't an excuse.

3: Given what I just pointed out in #2, you should be very happy to realize that Majir has made this mod in such that it IS optional to run along side everything else, and that he IS a nice guy, and that the modding community is full of cool guys doing this for the sake of fun. Because if a corporation (like say, EA), did this, your options would ONLY be A or B. And no amount of complaints would change their mind. Just food for thought on that one.

4: I should point out that KSP's modding system is very easy, and user friendly. Every mod package is held in GameData directory as it's own self-contained folder. All mods share the same basic file structure of having some sub-folders within them holding parts and plugins... maybe sounds and textures if they're more sophisticated. The most sophisticated thing around is no more than some nesting of folders within folders for organizational purposes. It couldn't get any easier to handle unless they made mind-to-machine interfaces that turned your ideas directly into mods without any of that pesky 'coding' stuff.

5: Just for you guys, one more time, It takes fifteen seconds to remove ALL instances of mod statistics, without headaches or effort:

a: Go to the GameData Directory

b: Type 'ModStastics.dll' into your search bar and hit enter.

c: Wait... For the search to complete scanning of your mod directories.

d: Highlight all instances of ModStatistics that show up in your search results and delete in one go.

e: PROFIT... or... something.

6: Majir is apparently working on making things more elegant for those who seem to have a strange dichotomy of PC skills. Give him the space he needs to help you.

7: Am I calling you stupid?

No, but you're pushing it guys. You really are. Wake up, drink your go-juice, and shake the cobwebs out. It's not hard. The rocket science is inside the game, not in the directory files.

[Vrana]

People are stumbling at the 'Figure out where it is and remove it?' stage? Seriously?

People are not stumbling over it. Almost everyone here is computer savvy if not some kind of an IT expert.

The problem is that this mod transmits private data, doesnt ask for permision to do it, doesnt tell us what it is transmitting and its removal requires *some* effort (even if it is trivial this still can and apperently is being interpreted as an attempt at obfuscation).

It is not inconcivable to me at all that a significant percentage of those 6.5k(if i remeber correctly) reports came from people who never knew they were sending this data.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Vrana

[AbhChallenger]

Or tiger... I could go ahead and search the addons I download for it thus preventing it from ever running in the first place. Hell I don't need to edit configs or remove clones. I can say NOPE to this and to it's creator right off the bat.

Edit: To clarify. I don't even want the code to check for the config file to run.

Edited July 20, 2014 by AbhChallenger

[Tippis]

Or tiger... I could go ahead and search the addons I download for it thus preventing it from ever running in the first place. Hell I don't need to edit configs or remove clones. I can say NOPE to this and to it's creator right off the bat.

…which is just intellectual dishonesty and entitled laziness mixed together into a pretty poor excuse for not implementing a proper user-facing behaviour from the get-go. The entire problem is that none of that should strictly speaking even be necessary. The fact that it has now become so just demonstrates that, already this early, the game modding is taking a sharp turn for the worse.

When/if this game and its related mods becomes more and more popular, it will pretty much instantly stop being possible to make any such demands on the end-user. You have to assume that no-one ever goes through what you consider “proper channels†to get the mods  anything else is either hopelessly naïve or downright ignorant of how these things actually work.

Would it be best if Squad sandboxed the whole thing and had very specific user controls for what modules can do which actions? Sure. Would it be great if everything was vetted and centralised by them, AppStore-style? Probably. Until they do those things, though, it's up to the modders to behave properly. Obfuscated, unwarranted, unasked, uncontrolled, (possibly illegal) collection and spreading of user data does not qualify, nor does excusing such behaviour or becoming belligerent when people voice opposition to it.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Tippis

[Daveroski]

If it was opt-in fewer people would subscribe. This is because people in general are rightly fed up of data miners asking for just a little more statistical data.

Any statistics generated by such a system would be HIGHLY inaccurate because of those circumnavigating the use of the plug-in.

Many mod writers will have users lose interest in their mods because of boycotting, which as I mentioned, I will do.

If a mod is particularly cool and it has this infection within, people will remove the infection either by using another trusted mod or by hand, as if it were a thorn in a wound, before using the mod.

Mods are free to use. So anyone who fights so hard to make as large a number of others as possible use this plug-in and indeed argues with the nay-saying public with pacifiers about how easy it is to opt out must have something else to gain from it's use.

Modders have been doing fine with personal reports from users on pages such as this since modding on KSP began. All the data you wish to mine appears superfluous in this regard.

People are paranoid. And on the internet that is the safest way to be.

We have plug-ins in our browsers to stop pop-ups.

We all have to regularly update our anti-virus software because it seems the anti-virus software companies keep producing new viruses so that they will stay employed.

We have expensive operating systems which seem to become useless not long after the next version is produced.

We have to open a new email account and give personal information almost every time we buy a piece of software.

The list goes on...

Yes. Paranoid. Rightfully so.

Statisticians and lawyers both have something in common with a sperm. One in fifty million stands a chance of being human.

Or perhaps one of my personal favourites; There are lies, Damn Lies and Statistics.

No, I will not be a party to this experiment. (But then perhaps data is being collected about those who suggest that you try to breed with yourselves)

Let me make it clear to avoid any misunderstanding.

I WILL NOT ACCEPT OR USE ANY MOD WHICH CONDONES THE USE OF THIS PLUG-IN. I WILL NOT RIP IT OUT. I WILL GO WITHOUT. IF IT IS PART OF YOUR MOD - OPT IN - OPT OUT - I DON'T CARE WHICH, I WILL NOT USE YOUR MOD. I OBJECT TO IT IN THE STRONGEST POSSIBLE TERMS. I WILL NOT BE QUIET AND MEEKLY REMOVE IT FROM YOUR MOD. I WILL MAKE AN EFFORT TO EXPLAIN HOW YOU SHOULD USE IT IN A PHYSICAL MANNER WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT GIVE YOU SOME GRATIFICATION.

TO THOSE WHO WILL QUIETLY ACCEPT IT IF IT GOES TO AN OPT-IN APPROACH I SAY, "SHEEP! WAKE UP AND SAY NO!"

This is my own personal opinion. I have fought for it and I will happily do so again.

[xEvilReeperx]

Majir and co won't say it because they're trying to play Good PR and not be toxic, but I'm not afraid to say that a lack of basic skill is shocking, if not disgusting.

Majiir and co won't say it because "how 2 install?" (or other similarly simple question readily answered by reading instructions) pops up so often when supporting a mod, even when you put a "How to install" in the forum post and a README in the zip itself carefully explaining it. A quick perusal of your forum history makes it seem like you haven't released any plugins so I guess it's forgivable that you wouldn't know.

You'd be surprised at how many people would stumble at 5a and you end up having to explain basic tasks like opening windows explorer or where to find the KSP directory

[acc]

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice plugin and helpfull to modders. But a home-calling plugin that does not ask the end-user for permission to do so is not ok. Anonymized or not, owner of the produced data is the owner of the device that produced the data.

Without the "asking for permission"-part I'll neither use nor support it.

[technion]

I agree with being paranoid, but let's look at reasons to calm down.

There are already numerous mods I have running that alert me when there's an update. You know how? They contact a server, logging my IP address in the process (I'm not making any allegation about what they do with that), and advise I've just started using that mod. Over time it will advise I'm still using that mod. Noone cares less when that happens, although the information exposure is just as high. I like privacy. I have disabled this mod using the config edit as suggested. At least that option existed. I don't know what can be done with other mods, I'm not far off firing up Wireshark and finding out just what goes across the wire.

For Steam users, gameplay stats are logged by steam, and stored in their magical cloud. We have no reason to believe it's secure.

When players installed World of Warcraft, they weren't even advised the Warden was going to start scanning in-memory processes and gathering information on programs and drivers that were being run OUTSIDE of WoW. It was some years before they even acknowledged the existence of Warden. Warden was actually discussed before a court and no one called it illegal (even if EFF don't like it).

If the community wants to get serious about enforcing privacy, maybe a step away from one individual mod, and a review of overall privacy and security processes are in order? There are plenty of places within the KSP this could be considered.

[Kamuchi]

Thank you for the feedback Majiir.

The main problem is that it is distributed with other mods and the user has no control or clue that it is coming along and get a suprise popup wondering "what the hell!", I did

In the first run popup you get there is no information what so ever about the functioning of the mod, who created it or runs it and because it is not a manual install, we have no idea what just happend when it installs itself into the data dir.

I am not against helping improve mods with sending back statistics, but the way and lack of info ticked me off.

I would recommend doing it the same way as Squad is doing it, on the first run popup:

Mod Statistics is created and maintained by Majiir [Kethane & KAS]
Please help by allowing statistiscs to be collected about installed mods 
and gameplay so that we may try to improve your gaming expirience!
All stats are sent to a private server at http://stats.majiir.net/

[radio check enabled] Allow stats collection?
[radio check enabled] Allow automatic update?

If no, it writes that disabled code to the config.

Such a small text addition to the popup explaining would have made a world of difference for me as I didn`t install manually but packed with another mod.

I doubt anyone looks at the url and goes "stats.majiir.net" and makes the link directly, I sure didn`t

Edited July 20, 2014 by Kamuchi

[Dred_furst]

Just going out on a limb here to point out that by the very nature of a unique ID makes the data not anonymous. At best, you can claim that it is pseudonymized, or largely anonymous. It is not truely anonymous if you can track individual users in any form

For further reference, the NHS in the UK got into a lot of trouble for this this year. They claimed it was anonymous. They also made it opt out. Source.

Your date of birth, full postcode, NHS Number and gender rather than your name will be used to link your records in a secure system

Admittedly, in a hash. However, the plan got postponed after there was a large backlash from the public.

There has been widespread criticism that the public have been "left in the dark" over the plans amid reports not everyone received the leaflets explaining the project.

Full Article

so you can understand why people, at least in the UK, are incredibly skeptical about any data retention right now.

edit: it's worth noting that they went to the extent of sending a leaflet to everyone in the country explaining why it was a good idea. People felt left in the dark because the leaflet didn't explain a) why they were doing it, properly, and didn't explain who the intended sellers were, c) what data would be included / omitted, d) had no easy to opt out procedure and e) the data wasn't truly anonymous.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Dred_furst

[Megadyptes]

People have been raising concerns about privacy and requesting that this plugin be opt-in for months now, all of which was just brushed away by Majiir. He only has himself to blame that this is becoming such a major issue and that Squad is having to become involved. The solution is simple and it always has been, respect people's privacy and ask for their explicit permission to collect their data. Using the excuse that people will opt-out and ruin the statistics or whatever is not acceptable.

[Nereid]

I WILL NOT ACCEPT OR USE ANY MOD WHICH CONDONES THE USE OF THIS PLUG-IN. I WILL NOT RIP IT OUT. I WILL GO WITHOUT. IF IT IS PART OF YOUR MOD - OPT IN - OPT OUT - I DON'T CARE WHICH, I WILL NOT USE YOUR MOD. I OBJECT TO IT IN THE STRONGEST POSSIBLE TERMS. I WILL NOT BE QUIET AND MEEKLY REMOVE IT FROM YOUR MOD. I WILL MAKE AN EFFORT TO EXPLAIN HOW YOU SHOULD USE IT IN A PHYSICAL MANNER WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT GIVE YOU SOME GRATIFICATION.

TO THOSE WHO WILL QUIETLY ACCEPT IT IF IT GOES TO AN OPT-IN APPROACH I SAY, "SHEEP! WAKE UP AND SAY NO!"

That's the reason why I will never include this plugin in my own mods - until is has some kind of "opt in scheme". Modders have to respect the privacy of users. Personally even some kind of automatic update or any check if there is an update available should at least be optional.

So: full ack.

[marce]

At first I didn’t want to say anything about this topic, but since recently even a mod to disable ModStats appeared which maybe hurts Majiirs IP (I really don’t know, haven’t read through everything) I’d like to point out the what I think is the basic problem here: There are simply vast differences regarding privacy between cultures. I know people from around the world and while some of them don’t care at all about their private data (some) Europeans tend to scream and run to the EUGH to get some billion dollar fees thrown around. This problem won’t be solved in short time.

Anyway, I’m a European from one of the most privacy oriented cultures possible, maybe even the most sensible. And it shaped my behavior. That may be old-fashioned and wrong, so be it, it is what I have become over the years. That said I understand everyone who dislikes opt-out regarding data collection. But we have to understand that we are a minority. And IP has to be respected which is at least in my culture also a fundamental rule.

Sure, if we would be talking about companies the opt-out would hurt some laws (here, in my country, not everywhere!!) if I recall my few law classes correctly. But that’ not the case. You get amazing software for free from private individuals and installing it is your own and free decision.

So my suggestion is: let Majiir do what he thinks is right, you can’t force him to change anything or other mod authors to not bundle it. SQUAD’s rules allow us to screen through his code after all, so he can’t hide anything anyway. If you still don’t want to participate and also don’t have the knowledge to check if the opt-out config line really does what is promised there is a very simple way to get rid of ModStats without hurting anyone’s IP: simply start KSP through a tiny two line script which deletes all occurrences of the dll prior of starting KSP. No harm done and everyone is happy.

Yes I would think very different if such a “feature†would be baked into software without an easy way of removing it, but that’s not the case. And he is acting inside the rules SQUAD set. Until they change it do what you personally feel is right and that’s it. Endless discussions won’t changes his believes any more than yours. International communities are based on compromises, that’s the only way it can work.

That’s just my personal opinion and you don’t have to agree with it of course

[technicalfool]

"Statisticians and lawyers both have something in common with a sperm. One in fifty million stands a chance of being human."

This is getting heated enough without comments like the above. I don't care what you think of ModStatistics. I certainly have my own opinion of this mod as Majiir well knows. However, I am capable of expressing my opinion with civility and respect. You, and I mean all of you, will do the same, or I will start cracking skull.

And I have a bigger hammer.

Now calm down, and less of the caps lock, please.

[Tippis]

International communities are based on compromises, that’s the only way it can work.

…and a good compromise would be that some users give can away information if they're asked to and if they think it would be a good thing, and everyone else are left alone.

Sure, Majir can do what he thinks is right, and take data without asking, but then he will have to face the unavoidable fact that others will do what they think is right and start building mods that directly target, disable, and disrupt his work. That's how all mod wars are born, and that's exactly why it's not a particularly good way to go. His actively trying to suppress this development to his own advantage, and his passive-aggressive stance to any kind of to his own advantage isn't exactly helping either (nor does the fact that his unsolicited poking around in other mods seems to break some of them).

So let's start the compromises there.

[Ippo]

…and a good compromise would be that some users give can away information if they're asked to and if they think it would be a good thing, and everyone else are left alone.

Agreed.

Sure, Majir can do what he thinks is right, and take data without asking, but then he will have to face the unavoidable fact that others will do what they think is right and start building mods that directly target, disable, and disrupt his work. That's how all mod wars are born, and that's exactly why it's not a particularly good way to go.

What a stupid waste.

1) You have the right to write a mod that disrupts ModStatistics, but it's not legal to do it by modifying his code;

2) If you have the coding skills to write a plugin, why don't you just go ahead and submit a pull request with the changes you want instead?

His actively trying to suppress this development to his own advantage, and his passive-aggressive stance to any kind of to his own advantage isn't exactly helping either

No, he's enforcing his rights, which forfeit violated.

(nor does the fact that his unsolicited poking around in other mods seems to break some of them).

Can you back this accusation, or is it just random talk?

So let's start the compromises there.

[Dred_furst]

// ... snip

Sure, if we would be talking about companies the opt-out would hurt some laws (here, in my country, not everywhere!!) if I recall my few law classes correctly. But that’ not the case. You get amazing software for free from private individuals and installing it is your own and free decision.

Just because it is free doesn't make it any less sketchy. It also doesn't make it any less legally dubious in the EU.

[ragzilla]

1) You have the right to write a mod that disrupts ModStatistics, but it's not legal to do it by modifying his code;

Based on some of the things I've been seeing from moderators, I'm not sure that's 100% true, but let's put it to the test! Sorry for the cross thread advertising but it seems relevant at this point to link to the plugin I just posted, StillBetterThanSpyware - a clean-room implementation of the ModStatistics interface, to block ModStatistics.

Just because it is free doesn't make it any less sketchy. It also doesn't make it any less legally dubious in the EU.

It's also legally dubious in Mexico.

Edited July 20, 2014 by ragzilla
quoting dred_furst

[marce]

…and a good compromise would be that some users give can away information if they're asked to and if they think it would be a good thing, and everyone else are left alone.

Well, if you insist go ahead and try to sue him. Bet it won't work. And there's nothing else you can do to force him.

So while I agree that he isn't doing the right thing here adding further aggression won't help. While he is not hurting the rules you have to solve it on your end while also not hurting the rules.

I suppose writing a mod which checks for ModStats existence and then asks the user if the opt-out file should be created would be legal and would also fulfill the purpose. Go ahead and write it, it's not that difficult.

[Ippo]

I just posted, StillBetterThanSpyware - a clean-room implementation of the ModStatistics interface, to block ModStatistics.

Well, in this case I have no idea about how legal this is. The previous time it was obvious, this time I honestly don't know and we'll see.

Anyway, I think you are doing the wrong thing. More than Majiir.

[Dred_furst]

Well, if you insist go ahead and try to sue him. Bet it won't work. And there's nothing else you can do to force him.

So while I agree that he isn't doing the right thing here adding further aggression won't help. While he is not hurting the rules you have to solve it on your end while also not hurting the rules.

I suppose writing a mod which checks for ModStats existence and then asks the user if the opt-out file should be created would be legal and would also fulfill the purpose. Go ahead and write it, it's not that difficult.

So laws aren't rules then?

And we could, but it wouldn't be possible to release it if its forked from Majir's code base. Because he controls the IP. Fair enough.

Valve sorted this out over a decade ago in the half life 1 modding agreement. Even more recently in the agreement you agree to when you use steam workshop.

[Ignath]

Man, this thread has become nothing more than a ridiculous farce of wanna-be Edward Snowdens raging about their "rights" and "privacy" when talking about a mod for a silly computer game. Have some perspective people.

Majiir is not trying to steal your personal data. He's not working for the gubment in some secret ploy to find out all there is to know about you. He's working on usage statistics to try to better the modding community and the state of his own (and likely other popular) mods!

Complaints about random IDs and IP addresses and "tracking" are ridiculous in the world we live in today. Most people put out more information (much more dangerous information) on Facebook freely and readily.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Ignath
misplaced apostrophe

[luizopiloto]

why scanSat don't work if I remove this mod?

[marce]

So laws aren't rules then?

They certainly are. But he is not breaking them everywhere. And he can't know about every law in every country in the world. While he is not acting as a legal entity and explicitly distributing in your country he only has to respect the laws in his own country.

Otherwise maybe every website showing the hair of a woman might be illegal in an eastern kingdom (I don't know or want to insult anyone, just an example) and would therefore be illegal everywhere.

And we could, but it wouldn't be possible to release it if its forked from Majir's code base. Because he controls the IP. Fair enough.

Valve sorted this out over a decade ago in the half life 1 modding agreement. Even more recently in the agreement you agree to when you use steam workshop.

Yes SQUAD can sort that out. Until they do lets just stay calm since every effort is useless.

[mouzfun]

Man, this thread has become nothing more than a ridiculous farce of wanna-be Edward Snowdens raging about their "rights" and "privacy" when talking about a mod for a silly computer game. Have some perspective people.

This is not about final result, it's about implementation, self replicating 'mod' which you can 'opt out' (cure) from is sound hell of a lot like virus, i'm not butthurt or anything, i just turned it off, but i understand people who are mad.

By the way, does this mean that in current implementation mods can gather your somewhat personal data? (ips, windows version etc) if so squad should immediatly patch that up, now it's friendly mod creator tomorrow it's someone with malicious intent.

Edited July 20, 2014 by mouzfun