Kerbal Government and Hierachy

[klappertjes]

I just think this was a point worth supporting because I expect some people may well attack it

Thanks for the support Though I was hoping we could not drag China and "what system is better in the real world?" into this. I fear this thread might go Godwin on us pretty quickly :/

Let's not. I'm having fun.

For me it's just a nice thought experiment how a humanity analogue with different primal urges and priorites might differ in their society from us.

[Jesrad]

All real-world systems suck, and each one sucks harder than all the others, because suckage is not a transitive application.

Back to Kerbal now, please

[J4CKAL2014]

If suckage wasn't transitive, there wouldn't be an explanation for why my spaceplanes all equally suck

[Tex]

I'm of the opinion that Kerbals live in a utopian underground society with massive resource mining operations that allows for an infinite stream of rocket parts. I don't think it's very established to say that they have armies, either, as the Kerbals might just be a bit too stupid to handle the seriousness of war. I think that if two Kerbal nations went to war, it would escalate out of control waaaaay too quickly.

[Jon Tash]

The only real canon that I see from the game and the animation video we have every other major update is that Kerbals are curious, they like to joke, compete between them and mostly, dreamers. Some of them are intelligent others aren't (just like we humans mostly).

I believe they are united and always together for the greater goal. So no warmongers like humans.

[Tw1]

A good example of this - and I'm not necessarily picking a "dictatorship", here, this example isn't intended as that, but I'm just picking a nation which isn't democracy-based - is what China did during the 2008 economic crisis. Because the majority of the biggest industries, banks, corporations, etc. in China are state-owned (unlike in a democracy, where they are privately-owned),

This is not necessarily a point against democracy, this is more about the continuum between capitalism and socialism. It is an interesting point for me though, due to current issues in my state.

What is an issue with representative democracy though, (the most common form), is that it basically boils down to a popularity test. Under such a system, it's not good, fair, or well reasoned ideas that matter, but how, and how much they motivate the population.

By spreading misinformation, a democratic government can easily get away with actions, that negatively affect an amount of people for a slight benefit to itself. Actions that if people knew all the facts, would not seem sensible. However, as long as not enough people care, it's not going to hurt their vote significantly.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Tw1

[IcarusBen]

[Kerbals] are not numbered in the billions

There are technically an infinite number of kerbals, but that's beside the point.

I've looked more into the matter, and I came up with a viable idea.

Kerbin IS Earth.

Sometime (if video games have taught us anything, somewhere between 2050 and 2080) Earth is destroyed by a severe nuclear war, which not only decimates all life, but causes massive earthquakes, volcano eruptions, the works. Humanity lives on, inside great underground megacities, built either like Vault or simply a huge cavern with a city underneath it. Either way, humanity lives on, but is trapped inside these bunkers, spread throughout the globe. While a grand majority of people die out, a fraction survive.

Despite radiation dissipating after about 20-70 years, give or take, humanity is so scared of leaving the outside world that they simply hide in their underground cities for thousands of years. Because of the way the cities are built, a very small amount of mutagens and radiation enter the city, enough to just barely nudge evolution. Over thousands of years, the birth-rate goes WAY down. In order to combat this, scientists perfect cloning and brain transfer. It works to save humanity, but it also causes people to look rather odd and, in fact, become a very homogenous species. Scientists mark this as the beginnings of a new species, and thus name it homo kerbalius, latin for "highly explosive man."

Within 40 years, all of humanity have become members of this new species, now informally known as "kerbals." Despite widespread scientific cooperation, these Kerbals still have a sense of national identity. With over, say, 2000 years passing, Earth has about fully recovered, but because of tectonics, the nuclear war and then all the earthquakes and eruptions caused by said nuclear war, the terrain has almost completely changed. With most other nations deciding to dig deeper, one nation (you decide what particular nation I'm talking about) decides to start flying again. And so the Second Golden Age of Space Flight has started. While everyone and their mommy digging towards the center of the planet, the space nation begins to settle colonies on other planets.

Said nation's government would depend on what nation it actually is. An African nation would most likely have an evil dictatorship or a well-meaning but oppressed (not oppressive, but oppressed by other nations) democracy. America would either be a democratic republic or a group of anarchists. Britain would be a---okay. You get my point. The military would most likely be the same way.

[WillHop]

How do you explain the massive difference in size between Kerbin and Earth?

[Geschosskopf]

I have several different imagined Kerbal governments that I use in different saves to set the overall tone. Each tries to explain why there are no Kerbals on Kerbin outside of KSC and other such glaring problems with presuming they have governments at all.

1. Kerbals Are Experiments

Some pan-dimensional, hyper-intelligent being or race of beings known only as SQUAD created the whole toy-sized system and the Kerbals for its own amusement. Give them a set of starting conditions, some rocket parts, and see what they do. Kerbals are generated by the Monolith near KSC and the other Monoliths are part of the control system for the whole experiment. Kerbals themselves are non-biolocial constructs made mostly of Mun dust, to which they revert when destroyed.

2. Kerbals are Marooned Survivors

Kerbals are native to some other galaxy or parallel universe. They are on Kerbin simply because a group of very stupid Kerbals had a horrible Star Trek-esque transporter accident, and they've been trying to get back ever since. The transporter can't send them home but can make an infinite number of copies of each Kerbal as needed on-site. Kerbals therefore don't worry about life support because 1) they don't have any of their natural requirements on Kerbin anyway, and 2) whenever they die, they just make another copy from the transporter records. IOW, Jeb launches for Duna, dies immediately after doing the burn, and then a new Jeb is beamed in to capture at Duna. Repeat as necessary.

3. Kerbals are Troglodytes

Kerbals are native to Kerbin's vast hollow interior, where they have a huge population divided into many nations of different cultures and technological levels, with various forms of government. The major powers are all monarchies of various shades of absolutism, with extremely high levels of social status differentiation and class-consciousness. One of these powers has established a colony on the surface at KSC. Due to the surface being an alien environment, Kerbals must wear spacesuits when outside up there. They have life support needs when active but can go dormant for long periods so the supplies in a capsule can last for decades. The whole concept of just going to the surface, let alone space, is anathema to the agoraphobic Kerbals, who after all only just discovered the existence of the outside universe a few years ago. As such, the entire space program is seen mostly as a dumping ground for undesirable members of society. The boffins are mostly white-collar criminals condemned to live on the surface, the laborers are mostly petty criminals, and the astronauts are almost all pressganged vagrants. No proper, law-abiding Kerbal, no matter his position on the social ladder, has any use for the surface or anything in space, so nobody below pays any attention to what happens at KSC or to those exiled there. This situation will only change if space exploration discovers something the subterranean population thinks is worth having, in which case the richer nobles and those nouveau-riche industrialists will step in.

[J4CKAL2014]

This is not necessarily a point against democracy, this is more about the continuum between capitalism and socialism. It is an interesting point for me though, due to current issues in my state.

What is an issue with representative democracy though, (the most common form), is that it basically boils down to a popularity test. Under such a system, it's not good, fair, or well reasoned ideas that matter, but how, and how much they motivate the population.

By spreading misinformation, a democratic government can easily get away with actions, that negatively affect an amount of people for a slight benefit to itself. Actions that if people knew all the facts, would not seem sensible. However, as long as not enough people care, it's not going to hurt their vote significantly.

Yeah fair enough. My main point was that that sort of thing can't happen in a democracy cos of the way it's structured, so this is an advantage of an alternate system.

As for the popularity test thing, you've hit the nail on the head much better than I did

Anyway, it all sucks. Kerbin is far superior

[peadar1987]

I think Kerbals live under a pretty anarchistic system (and this works, because they are not horrible to each other, like humans). Kerbin is a rich and bountiful planet, and there is no shortage of snacks or water. No government sanctioned the Kerbal Space Program, Jeb was building model rockets on day between snacks, a few other Kerbals walked past, thought what he was doing was cool, and the whole space programme sort of snowballed from there.

In my head, a Kerbal would never even think of killing another Kerbal, except through idiocy or hopeless optimism. The thought just wouldn't cross their minds.

[qromodynmc]

Kerbals are all same,so they dont have one single reason to hate each other,They wont need to live under nations.

[Felsmak]

The thought just wouldn't cross their minds.

But then, one day, it does for one Kerbal, and that changed everything. The Invention of Killing.

[peadar1987]

But then, one day, it does for one Kerbal, and that changed everything. The Invention of Killing.

This Kerbal rushed to try out his new concept on the nearest life form he could find. Unfortunately, he was crushed by a falling spent SRB as he left his house...

[Felsmak]

This Kerbal rushed to try out his new concept on the nearest life form he could find. Unfortunately, he was crushed by a falling spent SRB as he left his house...

I said that it changed everything, not that it would have changed everything. There were no accidents that day. Only lots and lots of killing.

[peadar1987]

I said that it changed everything, not that it would have changed everything. There were no accidents that day. Only lots and lots of killing.

The only thing that changed was a harsh review of SRB safety. Now stop ruining my innocence!!!!!

[The Jedi Master]

In my continuity (which I use for my stories), Kerbin was stuck in perpetual warfare until about 235 years ago, when John F. Kerman united the planet under the Kerbin Federation. The Federation government is similar to the US government in theory, but in practice, they just bend to the whims of the President. Luckily, John's main concern is spreading Kerbalkind across the solar system, so no one has to worry about losing civil rights or anything.

I also believe that all the space agencies and companies (that is, all the player's saves) exist in the same universe, both competing and cooperating in many ways. This can be problematic at times (for example, the world created by czoletmus is definitely not united), but it allows Kurtjmac (Kurt Aerospace Program), Scott Manley (Manley Aeronautics and Space Administration) and my space program (Jedi Space Program) to exist alongside one another.

[IcarusBen]

How do you explain the massive difference in size between Kerbin and Earth?

As many have said, the Kerbol system is scaled down. Kerbin can not possibly have the gravity it does without being a). Earth-sized-ish, or . incredibly dense. Such an incredibly dense planet would find it to be very... VERY difficult to form, unless it's made out of something incredibly dense. Kerbin is most likely the size of Earth, but it's scaled down for gameplay purposes.

I stand by my belief that Kerbals are troglodyte humans who (kinda) perfected cloning and simply cloned themselves into a new species. Remember the Asgard, from Stargate SG-1? They were basically copies of copies of copies of copies ad infinitum. They started out human-ish, but quickly devolved into Roswell greys... err... pinks. The same might apply to Kerbals.

If it makes you feel better.... hm... Let's say that the nuclear war that blew up Earth/Kerbin and caused all those earthquakes all caused the planet to shrink.

[aman608]

i think of the KSC as the only remaining outpost and they are all trying to find someplace they can move to in order to advance their race

[michaelhester07]

Kerbin I would imagine used to be like Earth. Some of the game elements suggest the existence of a capitalistic economy with contracting corporations bidding for space projects. You have

Jebadiah's Junkyard

Kerbodyne

Probodobodyne

Rocomax

Highway 12 (also known as "Laying by the side of the road"). Let's spin the clock back a few hundred years to see how we got to this place.

Kerbin 2100. The world is fractured into several countries based mostly on geographic areas. The largest set of countries belong to the Laythope Union (equivalent to earth's Europe). On the Continent where KSC is found you get the United States of Kermerica. The Spot where the crater is you get Kasia. Countries within each are equivalent to Earth's countries. The crater you see today didn't exist then.

2115: USK's corruption has grown to the point where the LU and Kasian nations declare war on it. This world war lasts 20 years and all sorts of technology comes about because of it. Basic rocketry, air flight and some space flight are used.

2135: Just before USK develops a nuclear bomb something more unthinkable happens: A colossal 2 mile wide asteroid hits Kasia near the capital city Keryoto. The impact leaves behind a 400 km wide crater. Everything within the crater was instantly vaporized. Everything within 1200km of it covered in a layer of ash and dust. The atmosphere clouded up for 20 years. This time saw the remaining nations band together and drop their differences. They vow never to allow corruption of a government to occur and even more so vow to develop and perfect the technology to prevent another planet killer catastrophe from occuring.

2155: Jebadiah's Junkyard becomes an aerospace corporation after recovering used parts from years of dismantling missiles used for war. Highway 12 being his only competitor (and not much of one since hey, it's a road and not an aerospace corporation).

2156: Soon the Rocomax conglomerate joins the space race with Probodobodyne and Kerbodyone shortly behind. Probodobodyne builds probe cores using its vast expertise from developing missile guidance systems from the war. This explains why most rockets using their cores end up aiming back at KSC. Rocomax puts forth expertise in medium sized rockets and capsules while Kerbodyne shines with simply gigantic rocket parts.

The government ended up being a single planetary nation. They're a Democratic Republic with small states replacing the countries of old. Each state governs themselves while answering to a federal level law. The space program becomes the most important piece of this government and receives nearly 90% of all federal tax revenue, the remaining 10% going to pay for officials salaries and other programs. Whenever someone proposes reducing the space program's budget they simply get flown out to the crater and thrown in it (with a parachute of course) so that they learn why the program gets such funding. Several corporations compete for their contracts. To compete for a contract to sell your parts not only is "part of the noble cause" but also the most lucrative business. Most corporations who win contracts end getting budgets with a ridiculous amount of 0s before the decimal point. As such the space program ends up being the true power on kerbin.

Political dissent in this Government is controlled by two factors: First is the 400km wide reminder. The second is that the bulk of the research the space program does ends up producing equipment and techniques that provide must of the Kerbal way of life. They get things like: the Poodle BBQ Grill, Minmus brand toothpaste made with real Minmus dust, rocket cars that don't blow up. Any kerbal who joins the space program is immediately elevated to rockstar status. This is mainly because you would have to either be really brave or really stupid to trust yourself to their contraptions. With opportunities to leave Kerbin for good and go places as well the space program ends up being the end all of Kerbal dreams and aspirations.

The government has a president I guess. And a congress I guess. They tend not to get anything done though. They're just there to look awesome on the cover of Brawndo bottles and Jeb-Os cereal.

[Biff Space]

The Kerbals have eradicated war, poverty and injustice from their society.

I hope they get here soon.

[sdj64]

Kerbals don't have any cities or towns, and the only structures are KSC, the inland space center, and the island runway. They also need space suits when they go outside, but not when they are inside buildings or in some pods like the Hitchhiker container. Possibly this means they aren't even from Kerbin in the first place and they came from some other planet far away. Their spaceship must have been big enough that they have a large supply of kerbals, all with astronaut training, and they have such a desire to get back into space so they can possibly one day return to their home planet. The spaceship could have crashed into Kerbin probably in the ocean, since in KSP the ocean destroys parts completely, leaving no trace of the ship. While the surviving kerbals had gotten into lifeboats and adjusted their trajectory to aerobrake rather than crash land, and eventually landed where they would set up the KSC. They are fairly knowledgeable about spacecraft building but they have to start over with basic parts because nobody on the ship knew all of the designs for the more advanced ones that they had on their home planet.

That means that their "government" is more cooperative but still strictly regimented like a ship or military base. Their leaders could be hired like a company hires its executives, with a board of directors (that includes Werner and Gene and probably Jeb) that are chosen mainly based on merit and veterancy. There is no conflict because all of them are jointly focused on their goal, and their population is not big enough for real wars anyway.

[Harry Mckay]

The Kerbals have eradicated war, poverty and injustice from their society.

I hope they get here soon.

I shudder to think what would happen to Kerbals in today's world. We've all seen what happens to peaceful aliens in the movies: Area-51 torture chambers, Alien "autopsies" and US government coverups. The poor guys wouldn't have a chance.

I'm not sure what I see Kerbin as being, but I like to think they're in their own little pocket dimension, not much bigger than their solar system. Perhaps some benevolent or just curious entity keeps them there, letting them do their thing in peace and quiet, or maybe they just lucked out and ended up in a place where the virii that threaten other parts of space, aka Humanity, can't get to them. They don't suffer from the ills that our world suffers from. No religion, no political power-struggles, no racial tensions, no money (yet) and thus no wars.

Modded games that give them weapons and premeditated killing are just bad dreams brought on by insufficient snacking.

[Zaryulenko]

In my mind i always think about kerbin being divided as nations, But i always choose the biggest and the best nation of the deserts! The Glorious Tungstenistan! Best friend of the Neighbor Coaltistan! AKA: Nation of the big badass launchers!, Cobaltistan, Where best probes come from, Titanistan Home of the best Rover Designers, Vanadistan the place where colonization systems are built (No matter if even Tungstenistan or others designed them), Argonistan!, Well.... where our Argon comes..., And Clohidristan, The place wich gets our needed rocket propellants.

All of them ¡UNITE! in favor of the Kerbalkind and for the SCIENCE.

But if you want to know the background of the nations well,

Tungstenistan has always been itself and has always been united whit Coaltistan in a kerbsoviet style but whit less space failures. It was called the KDU (Kerbal Desert United)

Vanadistan, Argonistan and Cobaltistan used to be part of the old nation of Lemontistan (Wich got separated at the fall of the KDU)

And the rest were part of Malvistan! (also separated at the end of the KDU)

Then Tungstenistan reunited them all to sign the United Kerbalkind agreement where EVERY nation of kerbin become allied for the space colonization of the Kerbol System. Only danger now is the Mighty KRAKEN so there's still military vehicles being developed at Tungstenistan and the rest of planet to prevent a total kerbal erradication made by him.

In the present Kerbin is at a very peaceful moment of its life, There's no more war, The united Kongress of kerbalkind Made the entire world work as a single country, Whit ethical rights and a economical system still used to keep sustain kerbal ambitions ongoing.

Now the UKN is focused on the interstellar travel in their quest for another space race to tell the tales of the Mighty Global hero: Jebediah Kerman! Pioneer of the Kerbal space flight

[DJEN]

I'm pretty sure That Kerbin has a one world order. What goverment system it uses is unknownst to me, although I think it's a very loose republic with companies acting as countries.