Starting career mode YOUR way

[r4pt0r]

My suggestion is simple. Squad makes 3 different Tech Trees, selectable at the start of a career. These would let the player decide how to play their space program.

1. Manned Spaceflight (the current tree)

2. Un-manned Spaceflight (the current tree with probes and command pods reversed, move rover wheels closer to start?)

3. Spaceplanes (start off with mk1 cockpit, basic jet engines, 1 or 2 rocket engines, and basic wings/surfaces, and the atmosphere science tool much earlier-if not at start)

edit the tech trees as you wish, this is just a rough framework. I feel this would let all players decide their play-style more freely.

not to undermine how hard coding can be , but this seems like it would be simple enough.

Thoughts?

Edited June 10, 2014 by r4pt0r

[Superfluous J]

I'd rather they put all their balancing work into one single tech tree and then let the modding community at the rest of them.

They should also put their work into a tool that allows for simple config-file-only modding of the tech tree. We shouldn't need a mod to install a new tech tree IMO.

[regex]

I'd rather they put all their balancing work into one single tech tree and then let the modding community at the rest of them.

They should also put their work into a tool that allows for simple config-file-only modding of the tech tree. We shouldn't need a mod to install a new tech tree IMO.

This. r4pt0r's idea isn't bad, but the current stock tech tree is so utterly terrible (science itself is fine, it's the tree, man) that we really should see that fixed first.

E: And honestly the single stock tech tree should allow the player to follow those three paths. You could, for instance, start a new career mode game by selecting one of the three starting nodes that r4pt0r outlines.

Edited June 10, 2014 by regex

[Javster]

Very good idea. Sometimes I wish I could start with planes, do some basic atmosphere science, upgrade, touch the limit of space, upgrade some more, go orbital. Then continue normally-ish.

All we need is (ideally) a GUI/application to create tech trees.

[Sirrobert]

Your idea is EXACTLY what mods are for. To customize the game to your individual wishes

[Kasuha]

As far as I understand the matter, the Tech Tree is meant as means of introducing parts in small increments so a new player does not get flooded by them. For that purpose, the order in which parts are introduced is way less important than in case that the tech tree should pose any challenge to the player.

Even with that I believe the current tech tree is just a placeholder. Not only the career mode is not complete yet, we even don't have final set of parts. Both of these will require tech tree rebalancing.

[Javster]

Your idea is EXACTLY what mods are for. To customize the game to your individual wishes

So do you have a mod which starts with spaceplanes?

[Vaporo]

I think that this is a good idea. I often see suggestions that could be solved by a simple difficulty setting. Expanding on your current idea, here could be 4 difficulty settings:

1. Novice (tutorial tech tree)

2. Easy (start with manned tech, but with a smarter tech tree than what we have now.)

3. Medium (start with unmanned tech)

4. Hard (start with planes)

EDIT: I am not trying to say that manned flights are necessarily less difficult than unmanned ones. I am just trying to keep in line with the original post as well as saying how I would set up the difficulty levels.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Vaporo

[r4pt0r]

i dont know that one is harder per-say than the others, since after you finish 4 tiers or so, your initial "class" choise is irrelevent.

[Sirrobert]

So do you have a mod which starts with spaceplanes?

No, but with Treeloader you can make your own techtree.

So YOU do, if you actually want it

[JimmyAgent007]

I think they should have the default tech tree more or less like it is now, focused on the new players and adjusted for new parts when they come out. BUT When you start a new game, before you begin, give an option for a menu to drag and drop parts around to how you want them. Set your own nodes, Science needed, what nodes are connected to what. So the new players can just dive in, but since everyone who's an experienced player can make it just the way they want. Rather than have 4 separate trees that not everyone will agree with anyways.

[Vaporo]

I think they should have the default tech tree more or less like it is now, focused on the new players and adjusted for new parts when they come out. BUT When you start a new game, before you begin, give an option for a menu to drag and drop parts around to how you want them. Set your own nodes, Science needed, what nodes are connected to what. So the new players can just dive in, but since everyone who's an experienced player can make it just the way they want. Rather than have 4 separate trees that not everyone will agree with anyways.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but that's where mods come in. If you want to make a custom tech tree, more power to you. BUT, I would be opposed to having an in-game tech tree editor. If that were the case, people, especially new players, would just abuse it and create a tech tree where everything is unlocked in the first three nodes for five science each.

Also, what I trying to say before was that the tech trees would be set up to be more difficult on each level, and that the things in parentheses would just be parts that you would start with, not that manned flights are necessarily easier than unmanned ones. In fact, I'm going to go back and edit that in.

[JimmyAgent007]

So what? Let people play how they want, if they are going to abuse a self made tech tree then whats to stop them from editing the persistence file and giving themselves whatever science they need to unlock the tech tree no matter how its set up. Give the players the freedom and leave them too it rather than telling people how to have fun the right way.

[Sirrobert]

I think they should have the default tech tree more or less like it is now, focused on the new players and adjusted for new parts when they come out. BUT When you start a new game, before you begin, give an option for a menu to drag and drop parts around to how you want them. Set your own nodes, Science needed, what nodes are connected to what. So the new players can just dive in, but since everyone who's an experienced player can make it just the way they want. Rather than have 4 separate trees that not everyone will agree with anyways.

That sounds like a major hassle each time you want to start a new save.

Let's leave that to mods like Treeloader, where someone can make a tree and others can use it.

I doubt anyone would use the 'make your own tree' more than once, just to try it. It's actually quite alot of work to drag everything around, even if you know what you want where

[Superfluous J]

That sounds like a major hassle each time you want to start a new save.

Let's leave that to mods like Treeloader, where someone can make a tree and others can use it.

I doubt anyone would use the 'make your own tree' more than once, just to try it. It's actually quite alot of work to drag everything around, even if you know what you want where

While I agree that nobody would do that every time, if it were coded in such a way that a particular tech tree would have a seed value that you could share (Like how MInecraft does world parameter seeds only less hugemongous and more obfuscated).

Hey guys! I made a tech tree where you start with planes and have 3 branches for probe cores, manned capsules, and rockets all totally separate! Just paste this into the seed window: 9098sdfA8sdSDFGfgS7bn8987fDF6

[JimmyAgent007]

While I agree that nobody would do that every time, if it were coded in such a way that a particular tech tree would have a seed value that you could share (Like how MInecraft does world parameter seeds only less hugemongous and more obfuscated).

Sounds fine with me.

[Sirrobert]

While I agree that nobody would do that every time, if it were coded in such a way that a particular tech tree would have a seed value that you could share (Like how MInecraft does world parameter seeds only less hugemongous and more obfuscated).

The problem is we'r right back to mods now.

Though I do agree, we need a system like that.

[Thomas988]

I reeeeeeeeally wish Squad didn't see career mode as a big, fancy tutorial for newcomers. It's a game mode! I found the training tutorials alone to be extremely helpful, and I wouldn't be anywhere without them. I think Squad should stop treating career mode as tutorial and more like a legit game mode.

I'm so pumped for 0.24, by the way.

[Sirrobert]

I reeeeeeeeally wish Squad didn't see career mode as a big, fancy tutorial for newcomers. It's a game mode! I found the training tutorials alone to be extremely helpful, and I wouldn't be anywhere without them. I think Squad should stop treating career mode as tutorial and more like a legit game mode.

I'm so pumped for 0.24, by the way.

Actually they are treating it as a regular campain.

Most games gradually introduce you to the parts as you progress through the campain. Instead of a campain, we have a techtree. The techtree is only the beginning of the career mode ofcourse. You can unlock the entire tree before get out of Kerbin's SOI.

After that, the big world opens up, with budget and everything.