[1.1] RemoteTech v1.6.10 [2016-04-12]

[195jd]

Sorry to be stupid, but you *did* put antenna on your craft, right? And activate them once you hit orbit?

yea, I have watched quite a few tutorials on how it all works. Once they "Open" There is no "Target" Option that seems to show up on the tutorials, and even when the craft is on the other side of the planet I can still control it too!

Thanks

Jayden

[ibanix]

It should have both 'target' and 'activate'/'deactivate' - but only for dishes.

You should get that even on the launch pad. If not - I recommend a reinstall.

[195jd]

It should have both 'target' and 'activate'/'deactivate' - but only for dishes.

You should get that even on the launch pad. If not - I recommend a reinstall.

Ok I tried a reinstall, same thing! I'm going to try installing it manuley rather than with CKAN, if that does not help I'll come back

[xtoro]

I have an issue I can't figure out with my network. But before going into the details, I have to ask; Is there's a known limit to how many path options a signal can have to reach Kerbin?

Here's my issue. By the way, I have OPM installed.

I have a set of short-range satellites in geosync orbit. Outside of those, at about 68,000KM's, I have a long-range satellite in polar orbit that has three 300Gm dishes, called KerbSat. KerbSat also has short-range antennas to connect to the geosync sats. All short and long range satellites connect to one another so that no matter what, there's always one way to get to mission control. This works well at this point. I can send probes with long-range antennas to Jool and Sarnus without issues when the KerSat is set to target "Active Vessel", or even targeting my active vessel manually.

Now here's where things go wrong. I sent a relay satellite probe to Jool, and one to Sarnus. These are called Juno 4 and 5. Each of the Juno probes have three long-range antennas (300Gm) and short-range ones for local ships. I dedicated two of KerbSat's long-range antennas to each point directly to the 2 Juno probes. One of the dishes on each Juno probe point to KerbSat, and vice-versa. This works well at this point. I then used a dish on each Juno satellite to point at eachother. Now I have links between Kerbin-Jool, Kerbin-Sarnus, and Jool-Sarnus, forming a triangle. This is a redundant system so that the Jool probe can still reach Kerbin via Sarnus if it has to, and vice versa.

So I see all the connections and everything works. But, if I disconnect the link to Kerbin on ONE of the Juno probes, I get a "No Connection" displayed. This shouldn't happen because it should automatically relay through the other Juno satellite shouldn't it? It seems to work this way within Kerbin's SOI no problem. But I can't get the Juno probes to relay eachother if the direct connection to Kerbin gets cut off.

They are all well within their maximum ranges on all sides. The only thing I can think of is that there's too many paths to get there and too many branches? Should I maybe have more Kerbin-based long-range satellites to reach the other planets and dedicate one sat per planet? Is my network just getting too complicated to be computed?

Thanks for any help!

[ibanix]

Are the 300GM dishes in point-to-point mode, or using cone mode? Cone mode has limitations - when the two dishes are in different SoI, you can use cone-to-cone or point-to-cone. You can't use cone-to-cone in the same SoI.

Also, do you have ANY dishes in Active Target mode? Those will always take priority over your links, and if your active target dish can't reach the target, you will get a No Connection.

[xtoro]

Are the 300GM dishes in point-to-point mode, or using cone mode? Cone mode has limitations - when the two dishes are in different SoI, you can use cone-to-cone or point-to-cone. You can't use cone-to-cone in the same SoI.

Also, do you have ANY dishes in Active Target mode? Those will always take priority over your links, and if your active target dish can't reach the target, you will get a No Connection.

They are all point to point. I had issues with Active Vessel before so I went to each one to check and none are set to that.

I'm starting to think there's just a limit to how many hops you can do.

[ibanix]

I should find out soon if that is the case; I've been doing nothing but setting up networks of satcoms...

[xtoro]

I'm launching new geosync sats to be short and long range links, and retiring all my old ones. This should answer if the amount of hops/paths is the problem. But I still need to design an SSTO spaceplane to physically recover all the old sats so I can get some of my funds bacl...

[Peppie23]

Hi,

when the MissonControl antenna would be upgradable with the TrackingStation, what distances would you like to prefer?

- Tech Lvl1 = Just behind Mun (~12Mm)

- Tech Lvl2 = Just behind Minmus (~47Mm)

- Tech Lvl3 = old default value of the Antenna (~75Mm)

I like the idea to keep the mission control antenna within kerbins soi, so that you have to build a relay sat to go to other planets. What do you think?

[ibanix]

Hi,

when the MissonControl antenna would be upgradable with the TrackingStation, what distances would you like to prefer?

- Tech Lvl1 = Just behind Mun (~12Mm)

- Tech Lvl2 = Just behind Minmus (~47Mm)

- Tech Lvl3 = old default value of the Antenna (~75Mm)

I like the idea to keep the mission control antenna within kerbins soi, so that you have to build a relay sat to go to other planets. What do you think?

Nice idea. I like it.

[BananaDealer]

Hi,

when the MissonControl antenna would be upgradable with the TrackingStation, what distances would you like to prefer?

- Tech Lvl1 = Just behind Mun (~12Mm)

- Tech Lvl2 = Just behind Minmus (~47Mm)

- Tech Lvl3 = old default value of the Antenna (~75Mm)

I like the idea to keep the mission control antenna within kerbins soi, so that you have to build a relay sat to go to other planets. What do you think?

I'd say:

Tech Lvl 1 ~~ Up to Geosynchronous Orbit (maybe a bit above, like 4Mm, just to make it a bit easier to establish networks)

Tech Lvl 2 ~~ Between the Mun and Minmus

Tech Lvl 3 ~~ Just beyond Kerbin's SOI

That would encourage building a satellite network early on, when all you can really do is orbit Kerbin, while still keeping gameplay balanced (i.e- you still need to upgrade the Tracking Station to get patched conics and be able to make manoeuvre nodes, in order to get anywhere).

[Peppie23]

I'd say:

Tech Lvl 1 ~~ Up to Geosynchronous Orbit (maybe a bit above, like 4Mm, just to make it a bit easier to establish networks)

Hi BananaDealer,

but with your first tech it would not be able to make a controllable mun contract. Yes you can pre-program all for your flyby or mun orbit but this would be really hard. Thats why i think 12Mm is ok. What do you think?

[Gryphon]

I think that by the time a player can afford to upgrade to level 3, they probably are already going outside of the Kerbin SOI.

I'd rather it go

12

75

something bigger, in millions of KM.

I guess I feel this way because that's how we do things, here on Earth.

Early on, I want to have to build out my low orbit network, then my keosynchronous network. Eventually, though, these satellites just become more stuff to have floating around out there, complicating my comms network.

Actually, I wish there was an option, maybe separate from the tracking station, to allow me to have multiple groundstations for a whole ground based tracking network that I could upgrade to do serious long-range work.

In other words, I want my final iteration to be a full-on DSN.

(Oh, and having some option for a ground-based global tracking network would provide another option for someone who really doesn't want to build a commsat network in the first place.)

Edited September 27, 2015 by Gryphon

[BananaDealer]

Hi BananaDealer,

but with your first tech it would not be able to make a controllable mun contract. Yes you can pre-program all for your flyby or mun orbit but this would be really hard. Thats why i think 12Mm is ok. What do you think?

That's the point. Make a Relay in Geosynchronous orbit first, then onto the Mun and beyond...

[xtoro]

I have an issue I can't figure out with my network. But before going into the details, I have to ask; Is there's a known limit to how many path options a signal can have to reach Kerbin?

Here's my issue. By the way, I have OPM installed.

I have a set of short-range satellites in geosync orbit. Outside of those, at about 68,000KM's, I have a long-range satellite in polar orbit that has three 300Gm dishes, called KerbSat. KerbSat also has short-range antennas to connect to the geosync sats. All short and long range satellites connect to one another so that no matter what, there's always one way to get to mission control. This works well at this point. I can send probes with long-range antennas to Jool and Sarnus without issues when the KerSat is set to target "Active Vessel", or even targeting my active vessel manually.

Now here's where things go wrong. I sent a relay satellite probe to Jool, and one to Sarnus. These are called Juno 4 and 5. Each of the Juno probes have three long-range antennas (300Gm) and short-range ones for local ships. I dedicated two of KerbSat's long-range antennas to each point directly to the 2 Juno probes. One of the dishes on each Juno probe point to KerbSat, and vice-versa. This works well at this point. I then used a dish on each Juno satellite to point at eachother. Now I have links between Kerbin-Jool, Kerbin-Sarnus, and Jool-Sarnus, forming a triangle. This is a redundant system so that the Jool probe can still reach Kerbin via Sarnus if it has to, and vice versa.

So I see all the connections and everything works. But, if I disconnect the link to Kerbin on ONE of the Juno probes, I get a "No Connection" displayed. This shouldn't happen because it should automatically relay through the other Juno satellite shouldn't it? It seems to work this way within Kerbin's SOI no problem. But I can't get the Juno probes to relay eachother if the direct connection to Kerbin gets cut off.

They are all well within their maximum ranges on all sides. The only thing I can think of is that there's too many paths to get there and too many branches? Should I maybe have more Kerbin-based long-range satellites to reach the other planets and dedicate one sat per planet? Is my network just getting too complicated to be computed?

Thanks for any help!

I should find out soon if that is the case; I've been doing nothing but setting up networks of satcoms...

I'm launching new geosync sats to be short and long range links, and retiring all my old ones. This should answer if the amount of hops/paths is the problem. But I still need to design an SSTO spaceplane to physically recover all the old sats so I can get some of my funds bacl...

So I made some changes and seemed to fix it.

Here was my old network around Kerbin:

Up-close, showing geostationary sats in equatorial orbits

And zoomed out further showing the medium range polar sats between Mun and Minmus, and long range polar sats for interplanetary comms. Total of 3 "layers" of satellites.

I launched new geostationary satellites with longer-ranged antennas to replace the old geostationary ones, and the medium-ranged ones.

Now I have my geostationary sats, and the interplanetary sats at about 68,000km's, one polar orbit and one equatorial. This seems to have fixed my problem I mentioned earlier as there's less hops and less paths to choose from...

This is my much less complicated network, showing that it now works as it should;

Connections to Jool and Duna

Connection from Sarnus to Kerbin and Sarnus to Jool

Everything is now working as it should. And now when my Jool sat loses connection to Kerbin, it automatically relays through Sarnus to Kerbin. A much longer trip, but still works as I intended to be redundant and reliable.

Edited September 27, 2015 by xtoro

[ibanix]

I continue to have the same problem I've had with all satcom setups: Trying to get synchronized orbits. The game likes to have orbit times start to 'wander' - I've watched orbit times of 6h 0m 0s slowly change to 5h 59m 59s ... and keep going down. Without any control or dV change.

Trying to get exact circular orbits is also a pain - even a difference of a km or so, over time, will cause satellites to end up out of alignment.

Any suggestions on these problems?

[BananaDealer]

I continue to have the same problem I've had with all satcom setups: Trying to get synchronized orbits. The game likes to have orbit times start to 'wander' - I've watched orbit times of 6h 0m 0s slowly change to 5h 59m 59s ... and keep going down. Without any control or dV change.

Trying to get exact circular orbits is also a pain - even a difference of a km or so, over time, will cause satellites to end up out of alignment.

Any suggestions on these problems?

Would you happen to have the Orbit Decay mod?

[Drew Kerman]

Would you happen to have the Orbit Decay mod?

As I understand, it's an intrinsic game issue that isn't caused by mods. Lack of numerical precision will cause orbits to "wobble". This effect is most noticeable when eccentricity nears zero, but even eccentric orbits can see small changes near ap/pe. So the answer is "deal with it" and ppl do so in various ways. I make small adjustments every few in-game weeks (earth weeks). Others edit the save file to match SMA or use Hyperedit to keep things tidy. 64-bit version might help with this

@BananaDealer i just realized you may be referring to the orbital decay mod as a solution not the cause, since it does feature station-keeping...

Edited September 28, 2015 by Gaiiden

[BananaDealer]

@BananaDealer i just realized you may be referring to the orbital decay mod as a solution not the cause, since it does feature station-keeping...

Both, really...

[Racescort666]

I continue to have the same problem I've had with all satcom setups: Trying to get synchronized orbits. The game likes to have orbit times start to 'wander' - I've watched orbit times of 6h 0m 0s slowly change to 5h 59m 59s ... and keep going down. Without any control or dV change.

Trying to get exact circular orbits is also a pain - even a difference of a km or so, over time, will cause satellites to end up out of alignment.

Any suggestions on these problems?

If you are trying to synchronize orbits of 2 or more satellites, it's important to make sure they have approximately the same semi-major axis. Kerbal engineer will display this value and I think it's in the game file too if you want to just edit it directly. The satellites will perturbate slightly relative to one another but they will be pretty well synchronized. As mentioned, the game uses a large number of significant digits as well as having issues with rounding error. If I had to guess, this would be the cause of the changes to your orbits.

[BadRocketsCo.]

Howdy.

So, if this isn't a known problem I will file a bug report later. Anyway, the problem is that in my RO install I have line of sight with my ground station, have EC, anything needed really. I can even turn the craft with RCS and such but when it comes to staging the flight computer says that there is no connection.

[Peppie23]

Howdy.

So, if this isn't a known problem I will file a bug report later. Anyway, the problem is that in my RO install I have line of sight with my ground station, have EC, anything needed really. I can even turn the craft with RCS and such but when it comes to staging the flight computer says that there is no connection.

Hi BadRocketsCo,

what versions of RO (RP-0?) and RT do you use?

[ibanix]

Technical question for Peppie23: What type of pathing algorithm does RT use to find a link back to KSC, when more than one path is available?

On that note, have you considered adding an option for 'link saturation' where a dish can only handle so much upstream/downstream traffic at once?

[BadRocketsCo.]

Hi BadRocketsCo,

what versions of RO (RP-0?) and RT do you use?

Newest of both (it should be, will confirm in about 6 hours).

[kendoka15]

So I was watching Scott Manley's RP-0 series, and I saw him get a probe to the moon (not mun) with only a communotron 16. I thought that was odd since in RO it has a range according to the tooltips of 4Mm. I hyperedited a test craft up to 450Mm and it still has a connection to the Earth. What gives?

Edit: Found a reddit post explaining this, nevermind

(Here is the link for anyone wondering the same)

Edited October 1, 2015 by kendoka15