Mapless Missions!

[Concentric]

So, I'm sure that some people here remember a time when KSP didn't have a map screen. I personally don't, but it came up in a youtube video I watched. Those who obsessively follow the "What did you do in KSP today" thread will know that I recently attempted a mapless Mun mission. I managed, with minimal preparation, to safely land a Kerbal on Mun without using the map screen from launch onwards. In doing this, I realised something that KSP players who have been playing since before the map was added likely already know: the map (and its apoapsis/periapsis data) makes everything much, much easier - even just getting into orbit.

The challenge, then, is as follows: How complex a mission can you do without using the map screen at all?

The Rules

• Stock only. Particularly the instrumentation - this is Stock Only, not Stock Parts Only.
  
• From the moment your first component ship goes onto the launchpad until the moment the mission ends, you may not view the map screen, including by the tracking station.
  
• Don't involve a ship previously launched. That is, all ships involved in the mission must be "component ships", and the entire mission is mapless.
  
• You may not dock on Kerbin's surface. Space, the atmosphere and the surfaces of other celestial bodies is fine.
  

The Scoring

Final Score = Base * Multiplier

Base

• Your Base score begins at the number of launched component ships you manage to dock together into the mission ship.
  
• For each celestial body your mission ship completes at least one full orbit around while in its SOI, add 1 to your Base score
  
• For each celestial body your mission ship lands on without destroying the command module (be that a capsule or a probe) or undocking components, add 2 to your Base Score.
  
• If your mission safely returns to Kerbin and is recovered, then add the following extra to your base score for each location at which you landed: 6 for Eve, 4 for Tylo, 2 for each non-Kerbin body with over .15g surface gravity (Moho, Mun, Duna, Vall, Laythe, Eeloo), and 1 for each other non-Kerbin body (Gilly, Minmus, Ike, Dres, Bop, Pol).
  

Multiplier

Your multiplier is the sum of the individual multipliers for the spheres of influence your mission took you to:

• Kerbol: 2
  
• Moho: 15
  
• Eve: 5
  
• Gilly: 10
  
• Kerbin: 1
  
• Mun: 1
  
• Minmus: 4
  
• Duna: 5
  
• Ike: 2
  
• Dres: 7
  
• Jool: 6
  
• Laythe: 5
  
• Tylo: 4
  
• Vall: 6
  
• Bop: 10
  
• Pol: 10
  
• Eeloo: 15
  
  
  I seriously, seriously doubt that anyone is going to be capable of getting to another planet entirely without once using the map screen, but if someone does, we can discuss modifications to the multiplier for those spheres of influence. Well, looks like Jodo42 has proven me wrong on that count. We'll see what happens with the multiplier values of places outside of the Kerbin system.
  Edit: Thanks to Jodo42 for the suggested list of modifications to the multiplier values for the SOIs.
  And an example score based off the mission I did and linked:
  Base = 4 (1 component ship, full orbit around Kerbin, landing on Mun)
  Multiplier = 2 (Kerbin, Mun)
  Final score = 8
  And for a hypothetical mission, in which we dock two ships that then orbit Kerbin, then Mun-assist to Minmus, orbit there and return to land at Kerbin.
  Base = 6 (2 component ships, full orbit around Kerbin, full orbit around Minmus, landing at Kerbin)
  Multiplier = 6 (Kerbin, Mun, Minmus)
  Final score = 36
  Another hypothetical: A single component ship is sent straight to Eve, lands, takes off, orbits several times until transfer window, and returns directly to Kerbin, and is safely recovered.
  Base = 12 (1 component ship, Eve landing, Eve orbit, Kerbin landing, Safe Recovery Bonus (Eve))
  Multiplier = 8 (Kerbin, Kerbol, Eve)
  Final score = 96
  The Leaderboard
  
  1. Jodo42 - 70 points
     
  2. Avera9eJoe - 16 points
     
  3. Concentric - 8 points
     

Edited June 20, 2014 by Concentric

[Jodo42]

Don't involve a ship previously launched.

What exactly do you mean by this? Don't use a ship that's already in orbit? Or don't use a design that you've launched on missions previously?

[ttnarg]

Your Base score begins at the number of launched component ships you manage to dock together into the mission ship.

I suggest you make it a rule that only docking in space counts. Otherwise it would not be hard to put a 7 stage rocket together just next to the run way and launch it into solar orbit for 21 points. (which I was temped to do but I didnt think it was in the spirt of the challange)

From another Challange: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/66293-Today-I-build-a-Rocket?p=1019396&viewfull=1#post1019396

[Concentric]

What exactly do you mean by this? Don't use a ship that's already in orbit? Or don't use a design that you've launched on missions previously?

Basically, you can't use a component ship that starts from a location other than the launchpad - so the entire mission is performed mapless.

I suggest you make it a rule that only docking in space counts. Otherwise it would not be hard to put a 7 stage rocket together just next to the run way and launch it into solar orbit for 21 points. (which I was temped to do but I didnt think it was in the spirt of the challange)

From another Challange: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/66293-Today-I-build-a-Rocket?p=1019396&viewfull=1#post1019396

Ah, thanks. Though perhaps... I'll permit docking anywhere but on Kerbin's surface. So, if you send a couple of component ships to, say Minmus' Flats, then dock them there, and then begin counting score, that'd be fine.

Unless that's too exploitable too?

[skykooler]

Ooh! A chance to use my knowledge of orbital mechanics! Maybe I can figure out a transfer to another planet! I can get orbital parameters from speed, altitude and vertical speed, and inclination from...crap.

[TJPrime]

Seems interesting. I'll try to do this in Kerbin SOI, but one question for interplanetary travel - are we allowed to go into the map view to check for phase angles before launch?

[HafCoJoe]

I shall land on the mun... Or at least try.

[skykooler]

Seems interesting. I'll try to do this in Kerbin SOI, but one question for interplanetary travel - are we allowed to go into the map view to check for phase angles before launch?

You could use a phase angle calculator and just go by the clock.

[Mandelbrot]

I copied Scott Manley's harder IVA only Mun and back mission. Just used the two-man lander can instruments: navball, vertical velocity indicator and radar altimeter. I would post a link but I am guessing it will be blocked, as this is my second post.

[Jodo42]

Well, I have this challenge's first entry ready... but imgur is down, so I can't upload my images. -.-

You could use a phase angle calculator and just go by the clock.

Going by the clock doesn't quite work, as you need your ejection angle (from what point in your orbit you should burn relative to Kerbin's prograde) as well. There is, however, a way to do interplanetary. I'll show y'all the idea if imgur ever goes back up.

[Jodo42]

Ok, here it is, finally.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Alternate external link: http://imgur.com/a/Qb5W8#0

Points:

[*]Your Base score begins at the number of launched component ships you manage to dock together into the mission ship.

1

[*]For each celestial body your mission ship completes at least one full orbit around while in its SOI, add 1 to your Base score

Duna- 1

Ike- 1

Total: 2

I COULD have made full orbits around Kerbin and Kerbol, but it would've thrown things off. Not sure if/how you want to count them

[*]For each celestial body your mission ship lands on without destroying the command module (be that a capsule or a probe) or undocking components, add 2 to your Base Score.

Duna- 1

Ike- 1

Total: 2

[*]Your multiplier is the sum of the individual multipliers for the spheres of influence your mission took you to: Kerbin 1, Mun 1, Minmus 2, Kerbol 2, Other 5.

Kerbin- 1

Kerbol- 2

Other- 5 (10?)

Total: 8

Final Score:

8*(2+2+1) = 40 Please check that.

I had a lot of fun with this mission. I could see a Jool mission not being too much harder (arguably easier since it has such a large SOI) and potentially much more lucrative, especially if OP changes his rules a bit.

Overall, fun concept. I enjoyed the extra challenge.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Jodo42

[HafCoJoe]

BTW I'm trying to land on the mun with only IVA view...

[Jodo42]

BTW I'm trying to land on the mun with only IVA view...

That's practically a whole new challenge. Sounds cool.

[Concentric]

Seems interesting. I'll try to do this in Kerbin SOI, but one question for interplanetary travel - are we allowed to go into the map view to check for phase angles before launch?

You can use the map view right up until the point that the first component ship goes onto the launchpad. Once the first of your component ships is on the launchpad, you can no longer consult the map view, so be sure to have gotten all your note-taking out of the way. The "Fly it twice" method as Jodo performed it is perfectly valid, though, of course, you have to be able to trust your ability to take and follow piloting instructions for the take without the map.

Ok, here it is, finally.

http://imgur.com/a/Qb5W8#0

Alternate external link: http://imgur.com/a/Qb5W8#0

I had a lot of fun with this mission. I could see a Jool mission not being too much harder (arguably easier since it has such a large SOI) and potentially much more lucrative, especially if OP changes his rules a bit.

Overall, fun concept. I enjoyed the extra challenge.

A quick note on imgur album embedding: the following bbcode embeds your album rather cleanly in the forum in such a way that the caption and description for each image can be seen.

[ imgur]Qb5W8[ /imgur]

Just remove the spaces.

You said you performed a full orbit of Duna and Ike, and also a landing on each, so you've lowballed the base score: a body you've landed on is worth +2 base, rather than +1 base.

Okay, so:

Base = 7 (1 component ship, Duna orbit, Duna landing, Ike orbit, Ike landing)

Multiplier = 13 (Kerbin, Kerbol, Duna, Ike)

So, final score for this is actually 91, more than double your claim. Which puts you rather comfortably on top of the leaderboard, at least until someone performs similarly but with a gravity assist, or something. (Actually, gravity assists are rather high-value here, as it's another boost to your multiplier. Without the map, though, they're probably going to be really difficult.)

I suppose I was a little unclear: Other SOI's, as the rules currently stand, are worth +5 multiplier each, so a Jool mission could indeed be extremely lucrative, even if you don't perform a single landing anywhere.

To be honest, I wasn't entirely sure an interplanetary could be pulled off at all, but you sure showed me.

If I was going to make a modification to the multipliers, do you feel that a Duna = 5 is a good baseline? Perhaps Jool would also be 5, and the moons of non-Kerbin planets be lower than the planets themselves? Perhaps places like Moho and Eeloo and Eve would have particularly high multiplier bonuses... but as I've never actually been there, I can't tell what'd be a good number. (Combined with how I was unsure whether or not mapless interplanetary could be done, I just decided to put them all as +5 multiplier and see what happened.)

With scoring rules as they stand, to beat Jodo42's score of 91, you need to either go interplanetary, or use more than five component ships.

With six component ships, if you do a full orbit of Kerbin, Mun, Minmus and Kerbol, and also land on Kerbin, Mun and Minmus, you can get 16b and 6m, for a total of 96.

If instead you went directly to Jool and encountered all its moons with a single component ship, that's 33m, so you'd get a total of 99 by orbiting just two bodies, or performing a single landing.

This is why I'm wondering if the scoring rules need changing a bit...

Edited June 20, 2014 by Concentric

[Jodo42]

If I was going to make a modification to the multipliers, do you feel that a Duna = 5 is a good baseline? Perhaps Jool would also be 5, and the moons of non-Kerbin planets be lower than the planets themselves? Perhaps places like Moho and Eeloo and Eve would have particularly high multiplier bonuses... but as I've never actually been there, I can't tell what'd be a good number. (Combined with how I was unsure whether or not mapless interplanetary could be done, I just decided to put them all as +5 multiplier and see what happened.)

If I had to break it down body by body, here's what I'd go with:

Moho: 15

Definitely one of the hardest to get to, even with a map. Very short and specific transfer window, lots of delta-v needed.

Eve: 5

Easy to get to, not easy to return from (see my note at the bottom of this post).

Gilly: 10

Gilly is in a rather inclined and eccentric orbit high above Eve, with an incredibly small SOI making transferring to it rather difficult indeed.

Kerbin, Mun, Duna, Kerbol: as is.

Minmus: 4

Similar story to Gilly, but still within Kerbin's SOI.

Ike: 2

Very easy to get to, especially considering you encounter it half the time on Duna approach anyways.

Dres: 7

Basically a mini-Eeloo. Mildly eccentric orbit with a decent inclination and relatively small SOI.

Jool: 6

Not too hard to get to. Relatively circular, mostly uninclined orbit with a massive SOI. Plus, if you go to Jool, you're likely to get some major bonuses with its moons, so its base score doesn't need to be super high.

Laythe: 5

Large gravity well, atmosphere to aerobrake in.

Tylo: 4

VERY large gravity well that's surprisingly easy to get to.

Vall: 6

Mun-like in size, starting to get "out there" in the Jool system.

Bop/Pol: 10

Similar story as with Gilly.

Eeloo: 15

The Gilly of the planets.

The problem with this is it doesn't necessarily reward missions to specifically challenging places as much as it should. Getting to Eve is one of the easiest transfers. Getting to Eve and back is by far one of the hardest things to do in the game. Tylo is one of the easiest moons to get to in the Jool system, but a landing is almost as hard as an Eve ascent.

I would suggest adding a seperate bonus for returning to Kerbin. Whether this is a constant or variable for seperate locations is up to you.

[Concentric]

If I had to break it down body by body, here's what I'd go with:

-snip: a nice list of possibilities-

The problem with this is it doesn't necessarily reward missions to specifically challenging places as much as it should. Getting to Eve is one of the easiest transfers. Getting to Eve and back is by far one of the hardest things to do in the game. Tylo is one of the easiest moons to get to in the Jool system, but a landing is almost as hard as an Eve ascent.

I would suggest adding a seperate bonus for returning to Kerbin. Whether this is a constant or variable for seperate locations is up to you.

Hm. A bonus to base score for Kerbin return? Perhaps +6 for Eve landing, +4 for Tylo landing, +2 for each other body of over .15g, +1 for each of the little ones?

I think I'll take your suggestions for multipliers for now, and we'll see how things develop. Thanks.

Recalculating your mission, then:

Base = 7 (1 component ship, Duna orbit, Duna landing, Ike orbit, Ike landing)

Multiplier = 10 (Kerbin, Kerbol, Duna, Ike)

Final = 70 points.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Concentric

[HafCoJoe]

Okay so I landed on the mun (beginning from the launchpad) with only IVA view because I've been wanting to try this for a while. Sure this isn't exactly what the challenge wanted, but it was awesome. Add multipliers if you like xD.

IVA Mun return!

Later!

[Concentric]

Okay so I landed on the mun (beginning from the launchpad) with only IVA view because I've been wanting to try this for a while. Sure this isn't exactly what the challenge wanted, but it was awesome. Add multipliers if you like xD.

IVA Mun return!

Later!

Did you perform any full orbits of Kerbin? Without them:

Base = 8 (1 component ship, Mun landing, Mun Orbit, Kerbin Landing, Safe Recovery Bonus(Mun))

Multiplier = 2 (Kerbin, Mun)

Final score = 16 points.

If you performed a full Kerbin orbit with Kerbin's SOI, then that'll bump up to 18. No bonuses for performing it all within IVA, though. It was really interesting - and I'm sure considerably more difficult without the main view's altimeter and the ability to see where your shadow is. Nice job.

[HafCoJoe]

No full Kerbin orbits. I launched at an approximate Mun rise and guess burned straight there. Extremely awesome! I sort of did this just for the kicks and boy was it worth it. Good luck to all you winners!